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Forfeiting Board Games vs Video Games

Blogs > Eywa-
Post a Reply
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
July 05 2017 21:45 GMT
#1
Hello meeples,

I'm back to talk more... Board games? And video games.

This post is about forfeiting and how it is perceived differently in board games vs video games.

I was playing Blood Rage with some friends this weekend and we got to a point in the second phase where there was little to no chance anyone would even come close to beating me. I had more than twice the score, superior clan stats, Frigga's protection and almost an infinite pool of rage with Loki's Trickery (and a base of 12). For those who don't know the game... This is an insurmountable lead. So, the game was called 2 turns into the second phase of Ragnarok and I was victorious. Being a student of the game and a former RTS player, I was more than happy to pack it up and move onto something else, however, not everyone sees it that way.

Generally, when it comes to board games, if someone leaves and/or doesn't want to finish a game that they are clearly losing, the victorious player often will take offense and/or doesn't feel satisfied with that as a victory. Do this often enough and you will be labeled a quitter and shamed for it. There is a trend here, when it comes to board games, players often want to savor the victory and play out all stages of the game whereas in the world of video games, people tend to prefer that you leave the game as quickly as possible as to get another play in. In fact, often in video games, you will be flamed if you stay in the game past the point of no return, players will condemn you for continuously trying in a futile scenario.

That got me to thinking, what causes this discrepancy? Is it the type of people who participate or is it the nature of the game and what people get out of it? Is it the simple fact that video games are majorly played online or something with the nature of competitive video games themselves?

The first factor that came to mind is that, if you compare the two groups from my experience, the video game players are far more invested in the games they play. The percentage of board game players that fit under the terms ‘’casual’’ or “occasional” is much higher than that of multiplayer video game players. Even so, I don’t think the will to win is any less for the “casual” gamer than it is for the competitive gamer, in fact, it may even be stronger. I’ve seen some casual players attempt to claw someone’s eye out to get an advantage at Jungle Speed. So, it would seem that the importance of victory is not so much of a factor to the social dynamic of forfeiting.

So, I went on to ask some friends of mine who are both board game players and online gamers. We discussed that board games are played in person with people who you know, therefore the social interactions are much more important than video games which you’re playing online. While online, you’re likely to have little to no regard for the player who is against you, therefore, regardless if you’re winning or losing, if the margin is significant enough, the remainder of the game feels entirely pointless. You’re not getting any social interactions of value and you’re not really accomplishing much in the game itself. My friend explained that when he plays video games in person, he generally doesn’t like people forfeiting even if the gap is large.

For a moment, that made a lot of sense. The only issue with this argument is that when I play Starcraft or Dota, regardless if I’ve known the people or not, forfeiting has been fair game. The portion of the game remaining at this stage does not add to anyone’s enjoyment of the game. For anyone who is about to argue this point, yes, people do get upset when you forfeit at Dota, but those people are generally your teammates, the situation in team games will always be a little stickier.

This is where I stumbled on the root of it. I think the major reason for a forfeit being a valid option in many video games is that the main purpose of playing those games is for improvement. Whether it be personal improvement, ladder improvement, stats or equipment, the value of staying in the match after the game is over is nullified once the advantage has become insurmountable or nearly so. At this point, the potential gain of remaining in the game is far less than starting fresh.

Then I thought, in chess it is also socially acceptable to yield when you believe it’s lost. So it would seem that it is not just video games, but perhaps the competitive system that drives this mentality, the accolades and the perceived importance of ranks and titles. In a multiplayer board game, where everyone is sitting around the table plotting their next move while enjoying a nice cold beer, it is quite easy to forget about the competitive system, the need for improvement and the wasted time. In that moment, it seems that all of the least meaningful portions of the game become tolerable and even appreciated.

I sometimes wonder if it wouldn’t be better to have a middle ground, where people aren’t killing each other to get out of a game of Dota as quickly as possible and conversely aren’t killing themselves attempting to stick with it through the entirety of a deep strategy game at the table. Perhaps there should be less value attributed to the competitive system and games should be played for what they are, fun distractions to be taken out and put away at any time. Of course, this is a difficult balance as everyone has different tastes and tolerance levels.

Alas, wishful thinking.

Many board games may not ever see the same will to improve in the absence of a competitive system while video games are now being released with practically no option other than the competitive multiplayer. The human inclination to ranks and systems which demonstrate one’s superiority or accomplishments is not going anywhere.

****
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
Socke
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany451 Posts
July 06 2017 00:05 GMT
#2
at the start of starcraft it was kind of like it is with board game now. i guess once youve played a certain amount of games youre fine with not having to go through the motions to end a won game. most people dont play boardgamematches as often as rts matches.
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
July 06 2017 02:11 GMT
#3
I agree that it has something to do with the competitive element. When I'm playing competitively playing on in a lost position feels like a waste of time. For social board games it can still be fun, with the right crowd.

It also depends on the culture of the game. In Go it is customary to play out the last few moves, even though the result is obvious between strong players. I guess it has something to with the ceremony of counting the score, that many players find enjoyable. It is fine to resign earlier though, if the game looks hopeless. In chess you would almost never play to the end.

"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Tohron
Profile Joined April 2010
United States135 Posts
July 06 2017 03:42 GMT
#4
I think the length of the game is a significant factor. In the Civilization IV community at Realms Beyond, games can last several months (everyone logs in in a specific order to play their current turn, and the turn ends when everyone finishes), and quitting once someone has a dominant lead is usually frowned upon (though the games are typically Free For All, so that increases the threshold for what constitutes an insurmountable lead).

Basically, the longer a game lasts, the more disappointed the winner might feel if it comes to a sudden, arbitrary conclusion.
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
July 06 2017 06:16 GMT
#5
Yes, board games are social events and video games are not.

Sad to see that board games are reduced to card games these days :/
"not enough rights"
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3394 Posts
July 06 2017 07:34 GMT
#6
I always leave the game when I land in monopoly jail, go hit me with a afk ban idgaf
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
July 06 2017 16:29 GMT
#7
On July 06 2017 16:34 riotjune wrote:
I always leave the game when I land in monopoly jail, go hit me with a afk ban idgaf

If you wait till you go to jail before leaving a game of Monopoly, you're doing it wrong.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
July 06 2017 16:32 GMT
#8
On July 06 2017 15:16 fluidrone wrote:
Yes, board games are social events and video games are not.

Sad to see that board games are reduced to card games these days :/

I have to disagree, the quality and quantity of board games being released has never been higher. There's a large variety of card games, dice games, miniatures, board games and war games (also board games, but might as well be it's own genre).
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
fluidrone
Profile Blog Joined January 2015
France1478 Posts
July 07 2017 06:46 GMT
#9
On July 07 2017 01:32 Eywa- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2017 15:16 fluidrone wrote:
Yes, board games are social events and video games are not.

Sad to see that board games are reduced to card games these days :/

I have to disagree, the quality and quantity of board games being released has never been higher. There's a large variety of card games, dice games, miniatures, board games and war games (also board games, but might as well be it's own genre).

i meant that % wise (real life games versus virtual electronic games), it costs too much to get board games sold in stores and people are less and less inclined to play them socially. Only card games survive somewhat in the real world, but i'd wager even those are being replaced by the virtual kind.

Don't get me wrong, the board games still exists and some of them are awesome but money wise the whole deal is doomed. Only high profile stuff get a board game derivative product (usually done at high cost and for outrageous retail prizes).

25 years ago board games were the s hit! Kids and even grown ups would play them, now the social etiquette has dropped to a mere glhf.
"not enough rights"
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
July 07 2017 12:34 GMT
#10
On July 07 2017 15:46 fluidrone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2017 01:32 Eywa- wrote:
On July 06 2017 15:16 fluidrone wrote:
Yes, board games are social events and video games are not.

Sad to see that board games are reduced to card games these days :/

I have to disagree, the quality and quantity of board games being released has never been higher. There's a large variety of card games, dice games, miniatures, board games and war games (also board games, but might as well be it's own genre).

i meant that % wise (real life games versus virtual electronic games), it costs too much to get board games sold in stores and people are less and less inclined to play them socially. Only card games survive somewhat in the real world, but i'd wager even those are being replaced by the virtual kind.

Don't get me wrong, the board games still exists and some of them are awesome but money wise the whole deal is doomed. Only high profile stuff get a board game derivative product (usually done at high cost and for outrageous retail prizes).

25 years ago board games were the s hit! Kids and even grown ups would play them, now the social etiquette has dropped to a mere glhf.

Hmm, I'm not sure about 25 years ago, but what I do know is that board games have made somewhat of a resurgence in the past decade or so. Though, it's obviously difficult for me to say whether it is a global phenomenon or not. It can be observed in several ways:

Board game venues (bars & lounges) around here tend to be packed with a line up out the door
More and better board games are being released
More board game shops are being opened in the city

You're right in saying that the player base is not close to be comparable to the world of video games, however, the growth is unquestionable. One of the biggest problems with board games (that you kind of highlighted) is that very few people own them and are willing to purchase them. It takes a lot of dedication and money (and space) to build a suitable collection that presents enough variety to keep people interested.

Though, if you have them, people will come. I've been building my collection for about 5 years now and I've got a good crowd of people in Montreal who come out to play now and then.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32157 Posts
July 07 2017 14:32 GMT
#11
risk table flipping is 100x more fun than run of the mill bw bming
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