• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:29
CEST 12:29
KST 19:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview18Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th11Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0
StarCraft 2
General
Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $25,000+ WardiTV 2025 Series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOP Starcraft Global #21 $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battle.net is not working
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Monster Hunter Wilds Path of Exile Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Research study on team perfo…
TrAiDoS
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 16706 users

Elections in The Netherlands

Blogs > RvB
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6196 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-02 09:25:59
March 01 2017 11:41 GMT
#1
With the Dutch elections coming up (15th of March) I’ve been doing a lot of research into who to vote for. I figured I might as well create a blog about it for anyone interested on TL. I think of myself as a liberal (in the classical sense) so keep that in mind while reading it. I’ll try to keep it neutral but I’ve inserted my own opinion sometimes and I am as biased as any other human. It’s a huge blog so prepare.

The first part of the blog will be about our political system, the current political situation, the parties up for election and their programmes, an economic assessment, possible coalitions and I’ll end the blog with the party I’ll most likely vote for.

Political system
The Netherlands is a parliamentary democracy. The head of state of the Netherlands is the king (Willem-Alexander) but he has no power. Our parliament (also called the Staten-Generaal or Estates General in English) consists of the ‘Eerste Kamer’ (Senate) and ‘Tweede Kamer’ (House of representatives). Members of the eerste kamer get elected via an electoral college (Like the president in the US although we have no first past the post) and members of the tweede kamer are elected directly by the voters.

The tweede kamer is the more powerful of the two. It legislates and it chooses the executive (usually someone from the biggest party out of the governing coalition). The eerste kamer mostly checks the regulation coming from the tweede kamer and can send it back. This is important since legislation needs to pass both the senate and the house. The next election (15th of march) will be for the tweede kamer.

Members of the tweede kamer are elected via proportional representation. The tweede kamer consists of 150 members. In the last election (2012) there were 9.424.235 votes. That means a party needs 62.828 votes for a seat.

Current political situation
So I could do a write up of this myself but I found a pretty good article from the economist. Just going to quote the first part of it. I recommend you read it all though.
“THERE’S something wrong with our country,” began an open letter to the Dutch people published last month. It went on to moan about those who “abuse our country’s freedom to cause havoc, when they came to our country precisely for that freedom”, and warned them to “act normal or leave”. The author was not Geert Wilders, leader of the anti-Muslim Freedom Party (PVV), but Mark Rutte, leader of the free-thinking Liberals (VVD) and prime minister of a country that presents itself as one of the most tolerant in the world. “Act normal” (doe normaal) is a common injunction in Dutch; it can mean “Don’t be obnoxious” or “Don’t be silly.” But here it had a dark, exclusionary ring.
Mr Rutte’s letter marked how much Dutch politics has changed as the country prepares for a national election on March 15th. The vote will test the strength of European populism in the era of Brexit and Donald Trump, and will be seen as a portent of the French and German elections later this year. If Mr Wilders comes first, says Cas Mudde, an expert on populism at the University of Georgia, “The media will represent him and his European collaborators as ‘the choice of the people’.” That would boost France’s Marine Le Pen, Germany’s Frauke Petry and others of their ilk.

The Netherlands has often been a bit of a bellwether for northern Europe. Its left-wing student rebellion arrived early, in 1966. Wim Kok, a Labour prime minister elected in 1994, propagated Third Way centre-left policies before Tony Blair and Gerhard Schröder did. Anti-Muslim populism took off earlier than elsewhere in Europe, and the country elected a centre-right government in 2002, again foreshadowing Britain and Germany.

In those years the competition for the top spot in Dutch elections was generally between the largest right- and left-wing parties. But today it is Mr Rutte’s centre-right Liberals and Mr Wilders’s nationalist PVV who are vying for the lead—and for some of the same voters. Mr Rutte’s letter was an attempt to woo the working-class white constituents whom the PVV calls “Henk and Ingrid”. The letter’s underlying theme of moral panic over immigration aped Mr Wilders’s speeches.

www.economist.com

The parties
There are 28 parties participating in this election. First I'll give a picture with the political landscape. It's not perfect but it does its job. The red arrow is me.
I’ll focus on the parties which are polling at more than 1 seat in all polls. I’ll be using an average of 5 polls (I&O research, Ipsos, Eenvandaag, TNS Nipo and Maurice de Hond). The first number is the mount of seats they’re polling and the number between () is the amount of seats the party currently has in the Tweede Kamer. I’ll start with the party polling the most seats and end with the one with the fewest seats. I'll put the main points of the party programmes in spoilers.

Political landscape
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


VVD (Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie) – 25.2 seats (41)
Led by Mark Rutte (our current prime minister). The VVD is a conservative liberal party much like the conservatives in the UK. They want to liberalize the economy but they’re hawkish on security, EU sceptic and anti-immigration.
+ Show Spoiler +
Economics / budget
- 10 billion of tax relief for companies and citizens
- Making it more attractive to offer a permanent contract. Small companies (less than 25 employees) will only have to keep paying wages for one year when an employee is sick down from 2 years
- The possibility to offer more temporary contracts and the possibility to offer temporary contracts for a longer time. (You can only offer 3 temporary contracts with a maximum of 2 years before you have to offer a permanent contract)
- Temporary lifting of the requirement to look for a job when you don’t have one if you’re following education which makes you ready for the job market
- A flexible private pension: it should be possible to use some of your pension funds to pay off your mortgage or gift it to children (How it works now is that your funds are locked and that the pension fund pays you a monthly pension).
- Investing in innovation. Continuation of the current innovation policy (too much to explain in detail sorry) and more investment where necessary.
- Investing in knowledge. A point based immigration system which looks at future income, education, work experience and proficiency with language.

Health care
- Flexible public pension: It should be possible to get your public pension later if you want to keep working
- A broad basic insurance plan. Expensive medicine fall under this if proven effective. (Our health insurance works via private health insurance. There’s a basis insurance plan which everyone is required to take and covers most important things. There are also more expensive insurance plans which covers things like dental care. So basically what they’re saying is that they want more coverage under the basis insurance plan)
- Keep the divide between living and healthcare (dividing living and healthcare is the fact that living costs and healthcare are financed separately. So the elderly pay for the living expenses and health care gets financed via health insurance. The thought behind is that the elderly can choose where they want to live instead of being forced into a care home).

Security and justice
- Investment in police officers
- Police officers in principle won’t be designated as a suspect in an investigation into violence (not sure what this means tbh).
- More preventive searching by police, camera’s, ban on assembly for rioters
- Heavier punishment for being in possession of (semi-) automatic weapons, murder and manslaughter
- Abolishing of early release from prison
- A different national approach to the problems of soft drugs (this is simply an euphemism for getting tougher on drugs and getting rid of the current policy of soft drugs being illegal but tolerated)
- Expansion of the special anti-terror unit
- Expansion of the powers of the security apparatus. They have to be adapted to the newest technological developments.

Defense
- A lot more investment in defense. Priority is to sort out the basis and deployment readiness of the whole army
- Constant investment in manpower, new military personnel and innovations
- Retain all parts of defense (navy, air force, land forces)
- Defense expenditure back to 2% of GDP

Immigration and integration
- More consequences for not complying with the duty of civic integration, like the loss of the residence permit, no possibility of acquiring a better residential status, no possibility to become Dutch or no more unemployment benefit
- More refugee help in the region where the problem is and no asylum in Europe. Only with resettlement programmes can people go the Netherlands
- Repeated requests for asylum will be more rapidly dismissed and appeal won’t be possible while in The Netherlands.
- No asylum seekers from safe countries. These safe countries have to take them back. Cooperation on this can be a requirement for development aid, trade relations and the conclusion of treaties.
- Abolishing of help from municipalities for rejected asylum seekers and illegals. Rejected asylum seekers have to leave The Netherlands.
- Penalize illegally staying in the Netherlands.


PVV (Partij voor de Vrijheid) – 24.8 seats (15)
The party of Geert Wilders. This party has a nationalist anti immigrant message. Their whole election programme is one page.
Their plan: Instead of financing the rest of the world and people we don’t want here, we’ll spend the money on the normal Dutch people. (My own translation so it’s not perfect but it’ll suffice).
+ Show Spoiler +
1. De-islamize The Netherlands
- 0 asylum seekers and immigrants out of Islamic countries: borders closed
- Revoke granted residence permits which were assigned for a certain period of time, close the asylum centers
- No Islamic headscarfs in public functions
- Prohibition on other Islamic expressions which are a threat to public security
- Locking up radical muslims preventively
- Denaturalize criminals with a double nationality and send them away
- Don’t let people who went to Syria return
- Closing of all mosque’s and Islamic schools, a prohibition for the koran
2. An independent Netherlands so a NEXIT
3. Direct democracy: Implementation of a binding referendum
4. No more deductible for health care
5. Lower rents
6. State pension age back to 65 (it’s progressively going to 67 at the moment), indexing private pensions for inflation.
7. No money to development aid, wind mills, art, innovation, public tv etc.
8. Turn back the austerity on healthcare
9. A lot of extra money for defense and police
10. Lower income tax
11. Halving tax on vehicles.
That’s it. That’s their whole party programme for this election.


CDA (Christen-Democratisch Appèl) – 17.4 seats (13)
Christen Democrats. They’re like Merkels CDU (although the comparison isn’t perfect). A centre right, Christian conservative party. Led by Sybrand van Haersma Buma (you can shorten it to Sybrand Buma).
+ Show Spoiler +
Household & family
- Implementation of a minister for Family & household
- Lowering taxes on households
- A ‘healthcarebonus’ in the form of fiscal support for people who take care of family
- Further reduction of taxes on gifts to children and grandchildren
- 3 months of parental leave for both parents (it’s like a week now for the father lol)

Economy & budget
- Repealing the system of loans for students in higher education. (We used to have a system where you’d loan money from the government monthly but when you finished your studies that loan would become a gift from the government. Now you can still loan money but it won’t become a gift even if you finish your studies. CDA wants to go back to the earlier system)
- The reforms of dismissal of employees should be turned back (basically they want a less flexible labour market)
- There has to be more space for multi-year employee contracts (Very vague honestly, not much I can make of it).
Taxes
- Implementation of a social flat tax: there has to be one tax rate for high incomes and one tax rate for high incomes (We have 4 different tax rates atm).
- Our wealth tax should be based on real returns. In the interim period the wealth tax should be lowered. (We have a tax of 1.2% on your total private assets above €20k. The way they get the 1.2% is that the taxman assumes you get a 4% return on your wealth and it’s taxed with a rate of 30%. 4% * 0.3 = 1.2%. What they want is that it’s taxed on your real return instead of that assumption. So that if you have a 2% return your tax will only be 2% * 0.3 = 0,6%).
- Wage payment with long sick leave has to be shortened (Same as VVD).
- For long term sick people a new system has to be designed with public guarantees.
- Implementation of a basic insurance for disability. Flexworkers and freelancers will also have to participate.

Pensions
- Elderly with a small pension have to be substantially compensated due to the austerity of recent years. (Not really sure what they mean here, small pension can mean the public pension or the cuts on private pensions. Cuts to private pensions aren’t really due to the government though and public pensions didn’t get cut).
- Pension system has to become more flexible and there has to be space to take money from your pension fund to pay of your mortgage
- Freelancers will have to participate with a private pension arrangement to keep the benefit of the freelance deduction for tax.

Health Care
- Lower deductible for health insurance
- Abolishing of the ‘budget polis’ (the budget polis is an insurance plan with minimal health care coverage and a limited choice of hospitals for a low price).
- Abolishing of distribution of profits for health insurers (This is actually really fucking dumb. We have a lot of private health insurers but they’re almost all cooperatives. They can only distribute profits to their members. The members are the people who have an insurance plan with the health insurer though. So when a health insurer distributes its profits it means that the costs of the plan go down. Tldr this will make health insurance more expensive.)

Europe
- The EU has to go back to its core tasks
- The EU has to cooperate more in smaller groups
- Quantitative Easing has to stop

Rest
- Introduction of a social conscription for the young. The young would be able to serve with the army, healthcare, police or other social services. It’ll start with people who need extra help to keep in society. For them it’ll have a re-educational role. In the long term everyone will have to do it.
- Volunteer work has to be supported by scrapping unnecessary rules for volunteers and clubs. The rules for expenses for volunteer work have to be eased.
- Reintroduction of a minister for agriculture
- Introduction of a sugar tax
- Introduction of an election threshold of 2 seats
- Sunday stays Sunday (A Christian rest day basically)
- Doubling of punishment for recidivists


D66 (Democraten ’66) – 17.4 seats (12)
Alexander Pechtold is the political leader of D66. D66 is a social liberal party. They’re kind of the opposite of the PVV. Their programme is pro EU and focused on education.
+ Show Spoiler +
Education
- More broad child centres where children from 2 years old get equal chances of education with a focus on culture, sports, digital skills and a healthy life.
- Investment in teachers: Less rules, less hours in the class, more space for better education
- Investment in better vocational education with a better connection with the labour market.
- A life long learning and second chances for everyone: opportunity for more education, retraining and to be able to chase your career dream
- Investment in R&D – fundamental and applied. The quality of university level education has to be improved via digitalizing, the quality of teachers and participation (I assume of teachers and students but I’m not sure).

Clean growth
- Closure of all coal plants. Starting with the oldest and most polluting
- 100.000 payable energyneutral new rent houses (Our rental market is pretty crazy and almost completely government led).

Economy/budget
- Investment in education, R&D, innovation (isn’t that the same as R&D lol), culture, the ‘rechtsstaat’ and defense
- Reform of the tax code: Less tax on labour, more greening (more nature I guess?), less stimulation of debt (we have a mortgage interest rate reduction which stimulates higher mortgages), keeping under control rising healthcare costs
- Healthy government finances, for future generations as well
- Reform of private pensions. There has to be an individual pension, with preservation of solidarity, but without the transfer of money from young to old (how it works now is that you’re a member of a pension fund via your employed. You pay a premium to the pension fund to build up your pension. That premium is the same for every employee though but actuarially the young should pay less while the old should pay more. So basically the young are subsidizing the old in our system)
- Establishing a public investment bank with public money to increase private investment focused on socially relevant goals like green energy and digital infrastructure
- For employees with a flexible contract a permanent job has to be in reach. Removal of temporary contracts
- Freelancers should get more space. The deduction for freelancers stays. It should be made easier for freelancers to safe voluntarily for their pension.

Healthcare
- Tranquility in healthcare after the reforms of the last couple of years
- Investment in eHealth and innovation focused on health instead of treatment; more attention for prevention and healthy living
- General practitioners will be central. Quality of health care has to become transparent
- Help with careful assisted suicides is no longer prosecutable
Security and justice
- Softdrugs have to be safely sold by the government
- Minister of police and justice has to be split in two
- Investment in legal counsel for everyone who needs it; waiting times at the court should be reduced
- Protection of privacy and availability over digital private data (wtf aren’t those 2 opposing things??)
- Counter terrorism by increasing European cooperation between European secret services and by spotting radicalizing early.

Europe
- Against a Nexit
- A more democratic and more decisive Europe
- Nobody in The Netherlands has to revoke his or her original citizenship. Dutch people in foreign country can keep the Dutch citizenship as long as they want
- Refugees have to come to The Netherlands via safe and legal routes. Strong border control on the European borders have to keep the amount of refugees manageable.
- Refugees get education in language and the opportunity for a job from the first day.
Rest
- Paid parental leave of 12 weeks for fathers and co-mothers (co-mothers are nonbirth mothers in a lesbian couple with children; special thanks to aRyuujin who clarified this for me )
- The Netherlands has to become the digital leader of Europe with the best digital infrastructure and skills


Groenlinks – 15.4 seats (4)
Groenlinks (Green left). Their name speaks for itself. Jesse Klaver leads this party. They’re usually a pretty small party so they’re polling way more than they usually do. Klaver is a young guy and pretty popular with young people.
+ Show Spoiler +
Sustainability
- New ministry for climate and a sustainable economy
- New green development bank, implementation of a tax on packaging and investment plans for public transport, clean energy and energy efficient housing
- Higher VAT rate for meat products (we have 2 now: 6% for food etc and 21% for the rest so they want to increase the VAT for meat products from 6% to 21%); a prohibition for sales of meat products
- Implementation for a carbon tax; a kilometer price for cars; a climate law which has to lower the emission of greenhouse gasses
- Stopping the subsidies on gas; decrease gas extraction in Groningen; fiscal stimulation of renewable energy and energy savings
- Close coal and nuclear plants
More say for the people
- Citizens get the right to do governmental tasks on their own locally for equal or lower costs
- The town council elects the mayor; the provinciale staten elect the commissioner of the king (The provincial staten is the electoral college which elects de eerste kamer. Not really gonna explain what the commissioner of the king does since it doesn’t add much value).
- Implementation of a corrective referendum (a referendum where electors can vote on an already implemented law by the government); the turnout threshold (something like 30%?) for the suggestive referendum (A regular non-binding referendum like the one on Ukraine) will be scrapped
- Citizens get the right to let judges check whether the law is according to the constitution. When citizens have this right the eerste kamer will be abolished.
- The Netherlands will become a republic in the future with an elected head of state

Education
- More teachers in primary and secondary education and a lower workload for teachers (wtf these guys already get an insane amount of vacation days)
- Every child can get a double school advise, implementation of the option of a 2 yearly ‘brugklas’ (how our secondary school works is that it’s divided into different levels. From LWO for the least intelligent kids to VWO for the most intelligent kids. On your primary school you get advice on what level you go to. So they want a double advice instead of just getting one. A brugklas is your first year. It’s a class where you’re in 2 different levels. Like HAVO/VWO and then at the end of the year, depending on your results, you go to the level which fits you the most. It’s a pretty terrible system since it encourages laziness. My whole class was full of lazy bums (including myself). Everyone tries to get a mark which is just sufficient to go to the next grade (a 5.5 on a scale of 1-10). There’s even a name for it: the ‘zesjescultuur’.
- More money for smaller classes and special education
- Abolishing the calculating test in secondary education
- Implementation of ‘doorstroomrecht’; A diploma gives a right, without extra conditions, to tertiary education (I think it already does tho? Not sure what they mean).
- Increase the accessibility of tertiary education; no more selection; no more negative studie advice (basically if you don’t get enough credits in your first year you get kicked from your uni, they want to abolish that)

Economy / budget
- A new social agreement. The government has to set a good example by giving real wage increases to police officers, teachers and healthcare employees
- Quota of 30% for women in top functions
- Implementation of free childcare
- More money to development aid
- Investment in public transport; extra trains, more busses, more bicycle storage, and public bikes at train stations
Income policy
- Decrease of tax rate for low and middle incomes; forgiveness of debts for very problematic debts (there are already laws established for this actually but w/e)
- Financial aid for people with children gets dependent on income (You get an x amount of money from the government monthly if you have a child)
- Increase the top tax rate; addressing the bonus culture
- Addressing tax avoidance by multinationals; higher taxes on inheritance of wealth; higher capital requirements for banks; implementation of piketty tax (We already have one, the 1.2% which I mentioned earlier): a progressive tax on wealth based on real returns
- Increasing the incomes of the elderly with a limited or no private pension; limiting the fiscal subsidies of pensions from high incomes (This is already the case. The friendly fiscal treatment of private pensions are limited to a wage of €100k)
- Increasing public pensions; participants in a pension fund will start saving individually but still invest collectively via a pension fund (the same as D66).

Healthcare
- Abortion will get scrapped from criminal law. The required cooling off period will be scrapped.
- Assisted suicide will get scrapped from criminal law. Doctors are only punishable when they don’t follow the rules (That’s the case now as well obviously not sure why they’re saying this)
- Medical specialists required to be a salaried employee (what frequently happens now is that they become freelancers and then keep working for the same hospital makes a huge amount of money)

Justice and security
- More police officers and police stations
- Ministry of security & justice will become the ministry of justice again. Security will move to the ministry of home affairs
- Less usage of mass surveillance when combatting terrorism (Mass surveillance is already illegal in The Netherlands iirc)
- Legalising softdrugs
- Abolishing the squatting ban

Europe
- Welcoming of refugees; more money for refugees in the region
- Small scale welcoming of refugees in The Netherlands; In a year a definitive decision on a request for asylum; integration of asylum seekers starts on the first day of coming to The Netherlands. All EU member states participate in welcoming and caring for refugees. Sanctions if members don’t cooperate
- Stop TTIP. If there does come an agreement there has to be a referendum on it

Rest
- Recognition, restitution and compensation for all war victims from the former Dutch-Indies (Indonesia); other victims of our colonial past get recognition as well
- 5th of may will become a holiday (It’s only once every 5 years now)
- Recognition of Palestine as a state; suspension of association agreement between the EU and Israel as long as Israel continues the severe breaching of international law
- Prohibition of nukes in The Netherlands (We have some US nukes here)
- Services in shrinking areas will be kept up
- Abolishing animal experiments
- Abolishing of lese majesty; abolishing of the penalty on insulting a foreign head of state


PvdA (Partij van de Arbeid) – 12.6 seats (38)
Our Social Democratic party. After a leadership battle this year the party is led by Lodewijk Asscher. Asscher was a vice premier and the minister for Social Affairs and Employment. While they did really well in the last election (38 seats) their period in government hasn’t been popular with the voters. They’re only polling at the lowest level ever as far as I know.
+ Show Spoiler +
Economy / budget
- Billions of extra investment in a sustainable economy. It will cause extra jobs, a better place to live and a better climate
- Freelancers get protection via minimum tariffs
- Increase of a bank tax
- Wage increases for companies and government employees
- Less income tax for low and middle earners and more for high earners (Our highest rate starts at €50k.)
- The law ‘normering topinkomens’ (According to this law nobody in the public sector can earn more than the prime minister) will apply to all employees in the (semi) public sector
- The minimum youth wage from 18+ years will disappear in steps (The same as the SP basically), every adult gets an adult wage
- People who earn less will pay less rent for their house
- Prohibition of a difference of pay between men and women by law
- Budget for development will increase to 0,7% (I think they mean 0,7% of GDP)
Social security / healthcare
- Flexible public pension: You can access your public pension up to 3 years earlier against a reasonable cut, nobody will be below the minimum
- A uniform policy for all basic insurance policies in healthcare
- Abolishing deductibles for health insurance
- No market in first line healthcare

Education
- Teachers will have to teach a maximum of 20 hours a week
- Extra investment in vocational education and retraining of employees, in 15 years up to €10 billion extra a year
- Children with a handicap will participate in normal education. Parents can decide for themselves which school their children will get special education
- 3 broad ‘brugklassen’ in secondary education
- More money to mixed and broad schools, sports, culture and associations and neighborhood facilities like libraries
- One service for child care for children from 0-4 years old

Security and Justice
- At the minimum one police officer for every 5000 citizens
- Better care for refugees in the region
- Keep the focus on the battle against IS and organizations like IS
- More money for Defense for the security of borders, foreign missions and contribution to NATO
- Criminal law applies with intimidation on the streets
- Racism will be treated more harshly. Police and prosecution will get more money for this
- Legalizing weed

Rest
- Applying for a job will be anonymous at government and (semi) public organizations
- The size of asylum seekers will be adapted to the size of the city or village
- Parental leave for fathers will increase from a week to 3 months
- More money for poverty policy
- Research into direct forms of democracy


SP (Socialistische Partij) – 12.4 seats (15)
Socialist Party. Their name speaks for itself as well. They’re led by Emile Roemer and are our most left party in parliament. They’re like Syriza, Corbyn etc. A well known policy of theirs is that their members of parliament have agreed to only earn a net salary of €2500 and the rest goes to the party.
+ Show Spoiler +
Economie / budget
- Investmentplan for The Netherlands
- The young get the right for a minimum wage when they’re 18 (Young people get lower wages when they’re between 15 and 23), the minimum wage will increase by 10%
- Bijstand (It’s a kind of unemployment benefit when you have no insurance) and public pensions increase with 10%
- Abolishing of the youth wage (The youth wage is the thing I explained in the 2nd point)
- The ‘kostendelersnorm’ (Kostendelersnorm means that you get less of the bijstand if you live with 2 adults in one house) disappears
- Multinationals have to start paying taxes
- Extra tax for millionaires
- Implementation of a national people’s bank and an investmentbank for SME’s
- Lower rents for housing
- Reimplementation of the studie beurs (the system where you loan from the government for your education and if you get your diploma the loan becomes a gift)

Healthcare
- Implementation of a new national healthfund which will take over the job of our healthinsurers (basically a switch to single payer). Dentist, physiotherapist, and mental care will be in the basic insurance policy too.
- Abolishing deductible for health insurance
- Healthcarepremium has to become income dependent (so you pay more if you earn more)
- One national centre for buying all medicine
- One basic healthcare package for municipalities
- Nursing homes stay open. Elderly can decide for themselves if they want to stay at home or not
- Sufficient health care personnel
- Prohibition for fusions of hospitals
- Persoonsgebonden budget stays available. (pgb is money you get from the government if you need healthcare. You can buy the healthcare yourself with said budget instead of the government deciding for you)

Security & Justice
- More police officers
- Regulating and legalizing soft drugs
- Improve access to justice, to prevent ‘class-justice’
- Dividing the ministry for security and justice. Enforcement, oublic order and other police tasks will fall under Home Affairs
- Justice gets separate budget
- More attention against ethnic profiling, educating police officers is one of the ways to do this
- More attention for preventing honor killings and domestic violence via a programme against sexism and forced marriages, against honor related violence and for self determination for women

Europe
- Abolish the EU
- Referendum over a downside EU
- No new members for the EU. The people should be consulted via referendum over future expansion of the EU.
- Less payment by The Netherlands for European bureaucracy
- Stability and growthpact will be changed. The Netherlands has to get complete control over its own budgets
- Decrease influence of the great amount of lobbyists in Brussel

Immigation and Integration
- Improve conditions of refugees in the region
- More attention for philosophy, religion on schools; students have to learn how to live with people who think different than they do and to think critically about their own background
- Discourage splits in neighborhoods by building houses in different price classes and by settling refugees in richer municipalities as well.
- The unwanted influence of Dutch citizens by Turkey and Morocco has to stop: The government shouldn’t build alliances with organizations who are an extension of the governments in those countries.


50Plus – 6.6 seats (2)
The name speaks for itself. 50+ is the party for the elderly. They focus mostly on public / private pensions and job opportunities for the elderly. They’re led by Henk Krol. Krol is a massive scumbag. He owned a newspaper for gay people and didn’t pay the premiums for the employees’ private pensions for years. He only told this in 2007 when he made the employees write a declaration that they’d forgo their private pension for 4 years. He had to quit as party leader at the time but he came back later.
+ Show Spoiler +
Economy and budget
- Public pension age back to 65 (It’s increasing to 67 at the moment)
- Keep the current pension system. No more cuts of pensions, but increasing with inflation stays
- Employment offensive for 45+, fiscally as well. Lessen the burden for employers who employ people who are 45+. Abolishing extra free days for the old which makes them extra expensive now
- Purchasing power for elderly will be restored and will be equal to workers in the future
- Abolishing the inheritance tax for children, to start with up to €250.000
Healthcare
- No more austerity for healthcare and care at home. More respect and money for carers at home
Security and Justice
- Police officers and stations in every neighborhood

Europe
- 50+ is a critical proponent of participating in the EU and the euro, but we don’t want to pay for mismanagement and deficits of other countries
- Strict but just refugee policy. The Netherlands helps proportionally for real emergencies. Economic refugees will be sent back. Better border control
- The Dutch passport will only be given after staying here for 5-10 years. Conditions: evidence of good behavior from the municipality, complete mastery of the Dutch language and a declaration of loyalty to the Dutch constitution

Rest
- A toilet in every train (yeh we had trains without a fucking toilet lol)
- Cheap public transport for elderly outside rush hour. On every train station, bus and tram stop seats for elderly and handicapped (I think this is already the case but I’m not sure)
- Age discrimination scrapped from law, national and local (discrimination is against the constitution so it already shouldn’t be in any laws)
- Coaches for the elderly who voluntarily help the elderly with internet, language and administration


Christenunie – 6.6 seats (5)
Christian party. Generally considered as christian left (as opposed to christian right like the CDA or SGP). On areas like social policy, asylum and development aid they’re left but (not surprisingly) on ethical questions like abortion and drugs they’re conservative. They’re led by Gert-Jan Segers.
+ Show Spoiler +
Children & education
- Investment of 1 billion in extra opportunities for children and families by increasing ‘kinderbijslag’ (aid for families with children) and kindergebonden budget (Replaces kinderbijslag and is income dependent). Expansion of pregnancy, parental and healthcare leave
- Investment of 1 billion for teachers, lifelong learning, and better vocational schooling which connects better with the job market
- Reintroduction of the basisbeurs for students

Healthcare
- Healthcare which is organized close to the patient. Municipalities will buy healthcare based on price and quality. The municipalities will take care of a cohesive healthcare proposition, with eye for identity bound healthcare and freedom of choice
- More space for general practitioners and district nurses and healthcare at home
- Required deductive for health insurance will go down
- Less choice for health insurance. The 1400 different policy’s we have now are to opaque
- Specialists will go into wage labour again. Medical specialists will fall under the ‘Wet normering topinkomens’ (So their maximum wage can be as high as the prime minister)
- Investment in prevention
Immigration & Integration
- Required 2 year part time learning / part time work trajectory for all statushouders (asylum seekers who are allowed to stay for 5 years). Outflow out of this programme is only possible after extensive testing
- Home, healthcare, education and if required money to live
- Language and civic education and development of loyalty to The Netherlands from day 1
- 1 billion extra for child care and development in the region where the refugees come from

Economics and budget
- Freelancers get a collective insurance against disability
- The Unemployment insurance scheme will be converted into WOW – werk-opleiding-werk (work, education, work)
- Implementation that every temporary contract you get will be longer than the previous one
- Cost relief for small companies: payment for an employee who is sick will only be 1 year instead of 2
- Strong reduction of labour costs
- The tax system has to give the feeling of solidarity by keeping in mind capacity to pay and the family situation, and where the costs of labour go down increase the costs of consumption and pollution
Clean growth
- National policy led by an energy commissar
- Impulse for energy savings and speeding up the transition with woningcorporaties (public institutions which build housing and sell or rent if for affordable housing, not going in too much details since our system is a mess) and pensionfunds
- Better pricing of CO2 and as a consequence less subsidies
Security and justice
- 2 billion extra for defense
- Police, justice and security forces need sufficient equipment. Every neighborhood a police officer and more detectives

Europe
- Europe is crucial for peace and security, but it has to go back to what it was supposed to be: a cooperation of nation states
- Reduce the right of the European commission to propose legislation to a couple of well-defined policy’s (border, anti-trust, international trade and monetary policy). On other policy there has to be approval from the European Council and parliament
- Increase the involvement of national parliaments by introducing an emergency brake procedure
- Very cautious with allowing new member states to join and increasing European influence
- No more connection between the European monetary union and the EU

Rest
- Implementation of civil conscription: For everyone from 18 – 28. Flexible and broad: from healthcare to maintenance of public spaces. There is the possibility to choose between civil conscription and paying back student debt


PvdD (Partij van de Dieren) – 4.8 seats (2)
We have an animal party. It’s focused on animal rights and making the economy more sustainable. I consider it kind of a joke party but apparently there are 1000s of voters who disagree with me. They even have a seat in the European parliament. They’re led by Marianne Thieme, one of the prettiest members of our parliament imo :p.
+ Show Spoiler +
Economy and budget
- Decrease of tax on labour
- Research into the possibility of the introduction of a basic minimum income
- Address the tax deals with multinationals: The Netherlands has to stop facilitating tax evasion and make current deals public
- Abolishing bonuses in the financial sector
- De Balkenende norm (Another name for the law that someone at a public institution can only earn as much as the prime minister, Balkenende was our prime minister before Rutte) for all public and semi public institutions
- Implementation of a wealth tax based on real returns
- Connecting kinderbijslag (aid for families with kids) to income
- Reeducation has to be encouraged and facilitated by the government
- Pension funds have to become more democratic: No new investment in non-sustainable sectors by pension funds without a binding referendum by the members

Green / sustainability
- Increase taxes on raw materials
- Implementation of kilometerheffing (You have to pay taxes for your car for every km you drive instead of the system we have now which taxes based on the type of car you have and how energy intensive it is)
- Implementation of green statebudget: A profit and loss account which measures the effects of policy on human, animal, nature and climate
- More sustainable production for the regional market, less mass production for export (what the fuck???)
- Adjusting public tenders for the government so that everything the government buys is sustainable, animal friendly and socially responsible
- Implementation of a green investmentbank owned by the state
- Closing nuclear reactors
- Implementation of ‘statiegeld’ (you pay extra for something and then get the money back when you return the waste, it’s to recycle plastic bottles etc.) for cans and small bottles; higher VAT for unhealthy food
- Abolishing subsidies and tax rebates for manufacturers and big users of fossil fuels
Animal rights
- Prohibition of zoo’s (lol)
- Animal rights in the constitution
- Abolishing animal tests with primates: More stringent tests for animal test requests
- Sufficient animal police officers
- Implementation of a cooling off period for buying animals
- More stringent laws for the wellbeing of animals in childrenzoo’s

Healthcare
- Abolishing caregiving fine (What happens is that if you live with more than one adult in one house you get cut on your public pension. So when caregivers start living at the elderly at home the public pension is cut, this is also called the caregiving fine)
- Implementation of a national healthcare fund
- Abolishing requirement to look for a job when you’re unemployed when you’re older than 60
- Implementation of a flexible public pension, partly based on the amount of years worked
Security and justice
- Investment into police stations and police officers
- Camera surveillance may only be used temporarily in a by a judge defined high risk area
- Lese majesty and the criminality of insulting a foreign head of state will be scrapped from the law
- The ministry of security and justice will be abolished: The police will fall under the ministry of foreign affairs and justice will become an independent ministry again

Europe
- Decrease the influence of the European Union
- An international court for ‘ecocide’, murder of ecosystems has to be prosecuted

Rest
- Implementation of a ministry for food and agriculture
- Abolishing the official gender register
- Implementation of an advisory referendum that can take place at the same time with other elections (Like Switzerland)
- Prohibition for consumer fireworks
- Maximum speed for cars back to 120 km an hour (130 now although it’s extremely limited everywhere)
- Paid parental leave for the father to three months


SGP (Staats-Gereformeerde Partij) – 3.8 seats (3)
The SGP is our most conservative christian (reformed) party in The Netherlands. The SGP is the only party which was in parliament since before world war 2. The SGP has a very steady amount of seats (2-3) due to their appeal to a very small group of voters. They’re the only party in The Netherlands still for the death penalty (apparently it’s in the bible) and only since 2013 are women allowed to be a candidate for the SGP (By court order).
+ Show Spoiler +
Economy and budget
- Lower income tax on labour
- Abolishing the overdrachtsbelasting (A tax you pay when buying real estate)
- Lowering the property tax you pay on your house and reform of mortgage interest rate reduction
- Linking private pension, repaying your mortgage and health care
- A lot more investment in knowledge and education
- More space for entrepreneurs: lower costs for entrepreneurs and less bureaucracy
- Implementation of a starter mortgage for starters on the housing market
- Banks should be able to give a mortgage more easily to employees with a temporary contract
- Parents should be able to help their children tax free with buying a new house or repayment of their mortgage
- Repayment of mortgage over a longer period (At the moment the fiscal benefits for a mortgage last 30 years so they want to extend this)

Healthcare
- No Abortion
- No help with euthanasia
- There has to be a good arrangement for compassionate leave
- Caregivers should be given a fiscal deduction
- Investment in healthcare

Family
- Families get 1000 euro after their first child is born
- Increase of kinderbijslag (money you get from government when you have a child)
- No more child care allowance for children younger than 1 year
- More space for education at home
- The classical family of father, mother and children has to be in the constitution
- It should be possible for public servants who marry people (don’t know the English word for it) to decline marrying gay people
- Requirement of mediation with divorce

Security and justice
- 5000 new police officers against common criminality and terrorism
- 3 – 4 billion to defense
- Defense has to be excluded from more austerity
- Abolishing the rule that The Netherlands does not extradite criminals to countries which have the death penalty, assuming they have a well functioning ‘rechtsstaat’ (a state with the rule of law I think, not sure if there’s a good translation)

Europe
- Smaller EU: less responsibility, less money and less rules
- Treaties which transfer sovereignty to Brussel should require a 2/3 majority in both houses of parliament
- A significant reduction of payments to the EU
- Euro countries have to stick to the agreements (obviously referring to the Maastricht treaty and the 3% deficit rule) and if they don’t they should be able to be evicted from the Eurozone

Rest
- Reintroduction of a ministry of agriculture, fishing and nature.


Assessment
There’s been an assessment of the economic impact of the party programmes for some parties. How it works is that the CPB has first made a baseline prediction of economic growth etc. The parties which participated are: VVD, PvdA, SP, CDA, D66, CU, GL (groenlinks), SGP, DENK, VNL, VP. The last 3 parties didn’t get at least 2 seats in every poll so I didn’t include them earlier.

From the baseline they calculate the effects of the policies from the parties. I’ll just be copying the tables so that you can make up your own opinion about it. I've added baseline and the summary. If you want to read more you can find the source below

Baseline
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Summary
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Possible coalitions
Below I’ll give some possible coalitions and the amount of seats they’re polling.

1. CDA/CU/D66/PvdA/GL/SP (progressive-confessional, confessional in this case means a party based on religion) – 81.8 seats
2. VVD/CDA/D66/CU/GL (Kunduz, Kunduz was the mission to Afghanistan from The Netherlands, these parties cooperated on that point) – 82 seats
3. VVD/CDA/D66/GL (green-right) – 72.6 seats
4. VVD/CDA/D66/PvdA (centre) – 55.5 seats
5. CU/D66/PvdA/GL/SP/PvdD (centre-left) – 54 seats
6. PVV/VVD/CDA (right) – 67.4 seats
7. D66/PvdA/GL/SP/PvdD (left) – 62.6 seats
8. VVD/PvdA (Purple light) – 38.1 seats

A coalition needs a minimum of 75 seats. So according to the average of the 5 polls there are only 2 possible coalitions at the moment. These coalitions (progressive-confessional and Kunduz) have 6 and 5 parties respectively. My preferred coalitions would probably be Kunduz and Green-right. Centre would be fine too.

Me
So where am I in all of this? Like I said I am a self described (classical) liberal. So that narrows it down to 2 parties: VVD (conservative-liberal) and D66 (Social-liberal). Economically I’m pretty far right and I’d vote VVD. I’m no conservative though so on issues like drugs, immigration and security I’d vote for D66. I am pro EU.

I did some 2 separate tests which show what party you’re most aligned with. They ask a question and then you have to answer whether you agree, disagree or don’t know.

Stemwijzer
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Kieskompas
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

The first one includes all parties and the second one only the major parties. Unsurprisngly from the main parties D66 is the highest twice. What did surprise me is low the VVD was in the second test. What also surprised me is how high the christian parties SGP and CU are for me.

Anyway the tests mostly confirm what I already thought. I'll most likely vote for D66. I might give a strategic vote to VVD but that chance is pretty small. I voted VVD 4 years ago but I was a lot more conservative / anti immigrant / eurosceptic back then.

Well that's it. That's my blog. I hope I informed at least some people about the Dutch political system and the elections. It was a lot of work but as long as some people are informed I think it's worth it.

Sources
+ Show Spoiler +
http://frontbencher.nl/peilingen
https://www.parlement.com/id/vk1wljxti6u9/tweede_kamerverkiezingen_2017
https://www.cpb.nl/sites/default/files/omnidownload/Charted-Choices-2018-2021.pdf
http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21716643-geert-wilders-dragging-all-dutch-politics-nationalist-direction-netherlands


****
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4537 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-01 12:26:09
March 01 2017 12:24 GMT
#2
Forgive me for not reading all the party points you listed, but is there a party that is against immigration (about as strongly as PVV), but pro Europe?

Also this is pretty hilarious:
and only since 2013 are women allowed to be a candidate for the SGP (By court order).
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6196 Posts
March 01 2017 12:44 GMT
#3
No problem. Not expecting everyone (or most people) to read it all. The party which comes closest to your description is the VVD. They're the toughest on immigration except for the PVV and eurosceptic. Basically they want the EU to downsize but they still want to keep the EU as an institution. Being tough on immigration is kind of getting into the mainstream with even (out of the top of my head) pvda being pretty strict on it. So is euroscepticism.

If you want a real party which is very pro europe (so increased integration) and strongly anti immigrant (close to PVV) that does not exist currently.
WonnaPlay
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands912 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-01 13:49:58
March 01 2017 13:48 GMT
#4
Wow, I haven't read it fully yet, because I'm at work, but I will definitely come back here to see the rest.

Did you copy this from somewhere, or did you type it all out yourself?
I'm far too sceptic to use any "Stemwijzer" (website which helps you choose), because I know too much about such algorithms. I do try to watch the parties and their people closely, but (dutch) politics is just not my main interest. I will use this post as a tool to help me decide.

I rather follow the situation in Syria/Iraq intensively, because I'm a strategist and try to keep up with all sorts of IT development rather than get annoyed by the Dutch politics, lately I'm more and more realizing that more than 50% of dutch politicians just have absolutely no clue on what they're talking about. A very recent example : Henk Krol @ nieuwsuur (I head he also crashed out at Jinek). Or the approval of the new "Aftapwet", which is (too keep it short) blatently wrong. Even after the (very) negative reviews from the "Raad van State", "Autoriteit persoonsgegevens", "Raad voor de rechtspraak" and an open letter from 29 academics, they still voted for implementation of this law*...

Don't get me wrong, if all these politicians that voted for this law would have an actual sense of the magnitude of this law and still voted for, then I rest my case, however now I hear these same politicians scream at eachother "You voted against the computer law" , "you are not for a better police-system" etc. which confirms for me that they have absolutely no clue.

* I'm not against the law perse, I actually agree that something needs to be changed and that the AIVD needs more power. I'm mainly against the current implementation of this law, which leaves far too much open for interpretation. Next to that we have one of the biggest internet exchanges of the world (AMS-IX), which could have more farreaching effects.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17950 Posts
March 01 2017 13:59 GMT
#5
I forgot to register at the consulate, so I can't vote Otherwise I would be voting for the pirates. I feel strongly that they need a seat in parliament. Otherwise I would vote D66.

@Laurens: there's a couple that might fit your bill:

1. Nieuwe Wegen. Splitoff from the PvdA, with an emphasis on stricter migration. Supports European reform, not a Nexit.
2. Forum voor Democratie, but insofar as I know they are pretty much a carbon copy of the PVV but with a less controversial figurehead.
3. Voor Nederland. Another carbon copy of PVV, but without the charm of Thierry Baudet.
4. GeenPeil. Their entire program is blank except for an insistance on referenda for absolutely everything. Every single vote in parliament will be decided by a majority vote through their e-government system.

The first and the last look like a completely lost cause. Both VNL and FvD *might* get a seat in parliament.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1160 Posts
March 01 2017 14:18 GMT
#6
Geert Wilders is a scumbag: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/06/dutch-far-right-leader-geert-wilders-tweets-a-fake-image-of-a-rival-with-a-shariah-for-the-netherlands-sign/

Here's hoping for any result that means he loses.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Fildun
Profile Joined December 2012
Netherlands4122 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-01 14:19:05
March 01 2017 14:18 GMT
#7
Thanks for the write-up!
I really don't know who to vote for this election, none of the parties come close enough to my stances to feel comfortable voting for them. For example: I'm closest to D66/GL/SP in terms of immigration, but their referendum-proposals seem terrible to me, and these are both issues I care a lot about.
In terms of potential PMs I think both Rutte and Buma will do a good job, but I disagree strongly with the direction both VVD and CDA have been taking recently. On the other hand I agree more with GL and D66 (not by much) but I don't think Klaver will be a good PM at all, and D66 won't get enough votes to make Pechtold PM.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6196 Posts
March 01 2017 14:35 GMT
#8
On March 01 2017 22:48 WonnaPlay wrote:
Wow, I haven't read it fully yet, because I'm at work, but I will definitely come back here to see the rest.

Did you copy this from somewhere, or did you type it all out yourself?
I'm far too sceptic to use any "Stemwijzer" (website which helps you choose), because I know too much about such algorithms. I do try to watch the parties and their people closely, but (dutch) politics is just not my main interest. I will use this post as a tool to help me decide.

I rather follow the situation in Syria/Iraq intensively, because I'm a strategist and try to keep up with all sorts of IT development rather than get annoyed by the Dutch politics, lately I'm more and more realizing that more than 50% of dutch politicians just have absolutely no clue on what they're talking about. A very recent example : Henk Krol @ nieuwsuur (I head he also crashed out at Jinek). Or the approval of the new "Aftapwet", which is (too keep it short) blatently wrong. Even after the (very) negative reviews from the "Raad van State", "Autoriteit persoonsgegevens", "Raad voor de rechtspraak" and an open letter from 29 academics, they still voted for implementation of this law*...

Don't get me wrong, if all these politicians that voted for this law would have an actual sense of the magnitude of this law and still voted for, then I rest my case, however now I hear these same politicians scream at eachother "You voted against the computer law" , "you are not for a better police-system" etc. which confirms for me that they have absolutely no clue.

* I'm not against the law perse, I actually agree that something needs to be changed and that the AIVD needs more power. I'm mainly against the current implementation of this law, which leaves far too much open for interpretation. Next to that we have one of the biggest internet exchanges of the world (AMS-IX), which could have more farreaching effects.

The main points of the party programmes I copied from a Dutch website and translated. The rest I wrote myself. I am sceptic of such websites like stemwijzer and kieskompas as well but they basically confirmed what I already knew and it gives a neat little overview so I put em.
WonnaPlay
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands912 Posts
March 01 2017 14:47 GMT
#9
On March 01 2017 23:35 RvB wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2017 22:48 WonnaPlay wrote:
Wow, I haven't read it fully yet, because I'm at work, but I will definitely come back here to see the rest.

Did you copy this from somewhere, or did you type it all out yourself?
I'm far too sceptic to use any "Stemwijzer" (website which helps you choose), because I know too much about such algorithms. I do try to watch the parties and their people closely, but (dutch) politics is just not my main interest. I will use this post as a tool to help me decide.

I rather follow the situation in Syria/Iraq intensively, because I'm a strategist and try to keep up with all sorts of IT development rather than get annoyed by the Dutch politics, lately I'm more and more realizing that more than 50% of dutch politicians just have absolutely no clue on what they're talking about. A very recent example : Henk Krol @ nieuwsuur (I head he also crashed out at Jinek). Or the approval of the new "Aftapwet", which is (too keep it short) blatently wrong. Even after the (very) negative reviews from the "Raad van State", "Autoriteit persoonsgegevens", "Raad voor de rechtspraak" and an open letter from 29 academics, they still voted for implementation of this law*...

Don't get me wrong, if all these politicians that voted for this law would have an actual sense of the magnitude of this law and still voted for, then I rest my case, however now I hear these same politicians scream at eachother "You voted against the computer law" , "you are not for a better police-system" etc. which confirms for me that they have absolutely no clue.

* I'm not against the law perse, I actually agree that something needs to be changed and that the AIVD needs more power. I'm mainly against the current implementation of this law, which leaves far too much open for interpretation. Next to that we have one of the biggest internet exchanges of the world (AMS-IX), which could have more farreaching effects.

The main points of the party programmes I copied from a Dutch website and translated. The rest I wrote myself. I am sceptic of such websites like stemwijzer and kieskompas as well but they basically confirmed what I already knew and it gives a neat little overview so I put em.


Ah oke, very nice!

I agree, sites like these are a more for confirmation purposes or different kind of views. However, unfortunately, too many people use these type of sites as a definitive source. Next to this, it's possiblethat (due to various possible reasons) these sites are not objective and thus more likely to 'promote' certain parties.
WonnaPlay
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands912 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-01 15:14:35
March 01 2017 15:13 GMT
#10
On March 01 2017 23:18 LightSpectra wrote:
Geert Wilders is a scumbag: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/02/06/dutch-far-right-leader-geert-wilders-tweets-a-fake-image-of-a-rival-with-a-shariah-for-the-netherlands-sign/

Here's hoping for any result that means he loses.


Yeah he is a scumbag. However this article is a little bit misinformed on a few items.

In October, Wilders was convicted of insulting an ethnic group and inciting discrimination after he led chants against Moroccans.

Wilders was convicted of insulting an ethnic group, but was not convicted on discrimination. Next to this, Wilder received no punishment for said conviction.

Amsterdam, the Netherlands' famously liberal city, could become a "republic" that rebelled against the central Dutch government.


This has about the same likelihood as London rebelling against the UK.
----

One of the main reasons I think that the PVV is polled as the biggest party, is due to the same issue that already has risen up in this topic. ;
If you want a real party which is very pro europe (so increased integration) and strongly anti immigrant (close to PVV) that does not exist currently.


This fact, next to the fact that the Islam is scaring people (likely due to media, terrorists and the "failed" integration of the last few generations of Muslims), is one of the reasons that PVV has come this far.

People in the Netherlands call it "Knuffelcultuur" or the hugging culture, which basicallymeans that since the 50's integration was a topic which consisted of "It will come naturally", however now in the 10's people are aeger to blame something/someone for problems, which in this case is "the failed integration of foreign people" (or in this era it's Muslims).

No matter which way I look at it, it's awfully looking like Germany in the 1930's.
Unfortunately I (and probably alot more people) have trying to crack my brain for a possible solution and I just can't think of any solution which isn't either too radical, unpractical or just simply outside of our own power.

Integration has to come from the people themselves, next to an open mind from the current population. However unfortunately, we as a country already became kinda polarized, which makes things extra hard.
(it's comparable it to the black community in America vs White community).

I myself think religion is toxic. But without religion in this current meta would spell disaster worldwide.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-01 19:05:46
March 01 2017 19:03 GMT
#11
Wilders himself has radicalized a lot by living under constant guarded protection for so long imo. Hardly does interviews any more, has a practically non-existant election programme of only a half A4 page, just repeating his slogan 'take back our country' (from whom...?) everywhere. Making big mistakes like calling Pim Fortuyns murderer a muslim while he was a white environmental activist.

He's anti-immigration but more so anti-islam as he literally says to want to close every mosque and outlaw the koran. Which is anti-constitutional in many ways and thus complete bollocks. He also wants us to Nexit from the EU and close all borders, which would fuck up our economy so freakin hard.

He's lost touch with reality. But his supporters won't care. Because he's not part of the Hague elite, he's just like us! Even though he's been in parliament since 1998 and has hardly made any impact on laws. Just speeches in which he flames everyone and gives no answers nor solutions. He's had his own party for 12 years now but still hasn't made any actual plans as how to solve the problems he's always so angry about. Plus he's so toxic nowadays nobody even wants to work with him anymore.

Currently he's the biggest of all parties in the polls. I think the EU migrant crisis played a big role in this. The established parties really dropped the ball by not having a real plan how to deal with so many newcomers. On a local level there is lots of disturbance with government forcing villages to accept hosting refugees/migrants because there is no time to find a political solution due the the pure numbers coming in. Also not making a clear distinction between actual refugees from warzones like Syria and uneducated young male Africans only coming for economic reasons has lost them a lot of goodwill.

I really hope he doesn't become the biggest party. Even though he won't become executive since he's been exiled by every other party, it would send a very bad message to the world and other EU countries. And it would also increase division in our country. My hope is people see the wackiness happening after Brexit and with Trump and reconsider voting peroxide-populistic.

Also the fact that 50-Plus is doing so well in polls really annoys me. Like seriously most changes made in the past couple cabinets are way worse for the younger generation than the 50+ ones. We didn't benefit from saving the banks with public money since most young people won't have much saved yet, but we do have to pay the bill for it with increased public dept. Higher education is way more expensive now. Getting a non-tempory work-contract somewhere is super hard. Finding a affordable place to live as a starter without resorting to buying is very tough. And if they force pension age back to 65 it will be at 75 when we get old because there's no money left for those only starting now. It just feels like such an egoistical vote to me.
Neosteel Enthusiast
Sr18
Profile Joined April 2006
Netherlands1141 Posts
March 01 2017 21:07 GMT
#12
To put things into perspective, Wilders is currently polling around 24 seats. That's slightly more than 15% of all available seats. The only reason he even has a chance of becoming the largest party, is because we have many relatively marginally different parties in the political middle. If instead all these parties would form one big party with different wings, like in the US, Wilders would be nothing more than a footnote.
If it ain't Dutch, it ain't Park Yeong Min - CJ fighting!
_fool
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands675 Posts
March 01 2017 21:41 GMT
#13
50-Plus took a nose dive, after Henk Krol lost it with the media on several occasions. I'm glad they did, because it was one of the parties that would have been a potential coalition partner to Wilders' PVV.

Place your bets: VVD wins, PVV close second. Coalition of VVD, CDA, D66, GL and some small party.
"News is to the mind what sugar is to the body"
aRyuujin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5049 Posts
March 02 2017 00:55 GMT
#14
co-mothers are nonbirth mothers in a lesbian couple with children
can i get my estro logo back pls
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6196 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-02 09:26:46
March 02 2017 09:23 GMT
#15
On March 02 2017 06:07 Sr18 wrote:
To put things into perspective, Wilders is currently polling around 24 seats. That's slightly more than 15% of all available seats. The only reason he even has a chance of becoming the largest party, is because we have many relatively marginally different parties in the political middle. If instead all these parties would form one big party with different wings, like in the US, Wilders would be nothing more than a footnote.

yeah, the 'Wilders will and The Netherlands is the next victim of a populist wave' narrative is very overblown imo. It neglects the fact that we've already had Fortuyn, Wilders usually does worse in elections than the polls, that before this he lost lke 4 elections in a row and that as you mentioned the amount of seats he's polling is not that high.

On March 02 2017 09:55 aRyuujin wrote:
co-mothers are nonbirth mothers in a lesbian couple with children

Thanks

Is nobody going to rate the blog btw? :D
ZBiR
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
Poland1092 Posts
March 02 2017 12:43 GMT
#16
There you go.

I'm surprised there are basically no parties in the top right and bottom left quarter. With "rechts" and "links" it only means the position on economics, right? Usually, without adjectives, the left means social + progressive and the right is market + conservative in my experience.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6196 Posts
March 02 2017 14:02 GMT
#17
Economic positions yeah (links = left and rechts = right but I think you already figured that out). In daily use the left generally means social + progressive and the right market + conservative as well. They just decided to split it up for whatever reason but I like it since it makes it a lot clearer where parties stand.

There are some small parties (irrelevant) which might fit top right or bottom left. I don't know them too well though. I'm pretty sure the Libertarian party would be in the top right. Bottom left I wouldn't know. Do you have an example of a party which you consider conservative socialist?
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17950 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-02 14:59:23
March 02 2017 14:57 GMT
#18
On March 02 2017 23:02 RvB wrote:
Economic positions yeah (links = left and rechts = right but I think you already figured that out). In daily use the left generally means social + progressive and the right market + conservative as well. They just decided to split it up for whatever reason but I like it since it makes it a lot clearer where parties stand.

There are some small parties (irrelevant) which might fit top right or bottom left. I don't know them too well though. I'm pretty sure the Libertarian party would be in the top right. Bottom left I wouldn't know. Do you have an example of a party which you consider conservative socialist?

Wouldn't CU almost fit that bill? The graph has them dead center, but that just seems weird. In my mind they are a left-wing alternative for conservative Christian voters. But maybe that was their profile of a couple of elections ago.
ZBiR
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
Poland1092 Posts
March 02 2017 16:46 GMT
#19
On March 02 2017 23:02 RvB wrote:Do you have an example of a party which you consider conservative socialist?

Poland's current governing party, the "Law and Justice" (ironic name btw) is an obvious example of that for me, with their religiousness, nationalism and generous handouts. I don't know if there are parties like that in other countries.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6196 Posts
March 02 2017 17:17 GMT
#20
CU is one Indeed. I even described them as such ^^.

The closest to law and justice would be the PVV. With the lowering of the retirement age, increase in healthcare funding and lower rents they have some left economic points. The PVV is kind of a single issue party though where only immigration really matters.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Bellum Gens Elite
10:00
Stara Zagora 2025 Day 2
Clem vs HarstemLIVE!
Reynor vs SKillous
Ryung vs Zoun
Serral vs ShoWTimE
Spirit vs Nitix
FuturE vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Krystianer
Lambo vs YoungYakov
Bellum Gens Elite666
ComeBackTV 394
IndyStarCraft 138
Rex83
3DClanTV 40
LiquipediaDiscussion
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 49
CranKy Ducklings14
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Bellum Gens Elite666
IndyStarCraft 138
Rex 83
Lowko57
EnDerr 34
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2252
Bisu 860
Hyuk 547
actioN 357
Zeus 243
Stork 241
Nal_rA 233
ZerO 227
Mini 215
BeSt 205
[ Show more ]
Light 183
EffOrt 119
Last 69
Mind 62
JulyZerg 61
Leta 58
hero 55
ToSsGirL 47
Rush 45
NaDa 41
GoRush 33
sSak 29
Sharp 26
TY 22
Sacsri 21
JYJ16
Movie 12
Free 11
Backho 9
sorry 9
Yoon 8
yabsab 8
ajuk12(nOOB) 6
ivOry 4
Bale 2
Dota 2
XcaliburYe610
BananaSlamJamma419
Fuzer 240
420jenkins220
PGG 1
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss926
x6flipin523
byalli266
Other Games
singsing1551
Happy491
crisheroes311
Mew2King202
XaKoH 197
Has15
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2750
Other Games
gamesdonequick890
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 719
lovetv 5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 57
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos127
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
13h 31m
OSC
13h 31m
Bellum Gens Elite
1d
WardiTV Invitational
1d 3h
BSL 2v2 ProLeague
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 23h
SC Evo League
2 days
Bellum Gens Elite
2 days
Fire Grow Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
StRyKeR vs MadiNho
Cross vs UltrA
TT1 vs JDConan
Bonyth vs Sziky
Replay Cast
2 days
SOOP Global
2 days
Creator vs Rogue
Cure vs Classic
SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
AllThingsProtoss
3 days
Fire Grow Cup
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
3 days
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL Code S
6 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
NC Random Cup
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.