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On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay?
Viewer demand.
One thing should be made clear: if you play any game for your own enjoyment, you do it for yourself and nobody has any right to tell you that you should ... anything. But when you play for money, you play for the viewer, that's where all the money comes from in the end. Pros really need to stop being such princesses, in particular when there are hordes of others waiting to take their place in the spotlight. Surely, they should be treated with respect and dignity as anyone else, but they should just not expect that the whole world will be revolving around their needs - well, at least as long as they want to get any money from it.
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On November 25 2015 23:52 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay? Viewer demand.
Viewer demand - however perceived or expressed - does not prevent casting from replay. It may discourage casting from replay, though, which is probably what you were trying to say.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On November 26 2015 00:00 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 23:52 opisska wrote:On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay? Viewer demand. Viewer demand - however perceived or expressed - does not prevent casting from replay. It may discourage casting from replay, though, which is probably what you were trying to say.
So main WCS stream should possibly broadcast "the games will resume soon" screen for ~30 minutes until the players finish their game so it can be casted from replay but the "professional" players can't wait because it hurts their feelings?
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these conflicts between pro players and grassroots streamers are epidemic throughout SC2 and its been the case since the first CraftCup tournament in April of 2010. let's not pretend that its only a BTTV thing.
the problem is solvable. it requires a giant fucking pile of cash. otherwise when Pro players are playing for small amounts of cash and streamers are mainly staffed by volunteers these kinds of conflicts will always happen.
the only permanent solution to this is to buy your way out of the issue with a pile of cash. problem is there is no big sugar daddy and there never will be.
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On November 26 2015 04:27 Ingvar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 00:00 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:52 opisska wrote:On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay? Viewer demand. Viewer demand - however perceived or expressed - does not prevent casting from replay. It may discourage casting from replay, though, which is probably what you were trying to say. So main WCS stream should possibly broadcast "the games will resume soon" screen for ~30 minutes until the players finish their game so it can be casted from replay but the "professional" players can't wait because it hurts their feelings?
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The decision to make the folder: childish. The decision to delete it: smart.
The life we live in:full of people who do not act according to our wishes.
Do not wrestle with a pig in the mud.It will have all the fun and you will get dirty.
Your passion has made SC2 scene a better place. Your love for the game is what impressed me.
You have achieved a lot in this scene.You would have blown it if you would have released the folder.
Even if you are right every time it would have been for the wrong reasons.
I come to TL because here I found people that share my passion.
Rise above the bad things because you are better than that. You can't go wrong when you do something you love !
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Read the thread, so many people don't read the thread before typing in it 
Much agreed, it is quite weird to type and publish your thoughts.
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Whoa, shoot, sometimes I'm painfully reminded that e-sports industry is not heaven on Earth and this is just another example.
Keep up the good work, Rifkin&Zombiegrub and don't get discouraged!
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
Do you not need fans to watch your games ?
@Rifkin.
Maybe those "proofs" could have help in dark times. Maybe not. Great work as always. I grew found of you over time. Even if you have dicks in your pizzas 
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
Yes but in esports you need both players AND casters to be ready. Without tournament organizers and casters, you wouldn't be making any money and your career in progaming would be over. Likewise, without any pro players to play in the tournaments, the organizers and casters would be out of a job. It's a 2-way street.
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On November 24 2015 07:48 Avocadi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2015 17:20 HickoryLIVE wrote:
This is like the plot to Mean Girls Yes. If anything has been comprimised by this post, it's been my view of Graham as a mostly competent grown adult. Your actions of keeping dirt on everyone in a folder are extremely childish... also if you have evidence of shady organisations there is absolutely no reason to withhold it. Everything else, on the other hand, likely will just make you look a lot worse than the players - who we already sometimes expect to act the way they do.
Sorry to break the bad news to you, but keeping dirt on people is the opposite of childish. Welcome to the real world. If someone fucks you over big time and you have nothing to prove it with, well prepare to just bend over and take it up the ass. This is why you should keep skype chat logs, etc. Otherwise it's just your word against someone else's.
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Saying 'we are the mainstream, so you wait' seems a little patronising. Could have just said 'sorry were fixing it asap'. Player is under a lot of stress so he'll react frustrated. Not saying they should react like, its rude, but this but to me this screenshot is really not that weird.
I really wonder how 'teams extorting sponsors for additional money' works though lol. 'Kingston you better bring some cash in unmarked bills to TL headquarters before o-eighthundred hours tonight or we sign with Corsair!'. Would be some quality drama.
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It's really disappointing that LotV didn't introduce a way for casters to jump into the games mid-game, would have been really useful for situations like the OP and also qualifiers and LAN group stages when a lot of games are going on at once, would dramatically reduce downtime on streams.
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On December 02 2015 03:52 SC2Towelie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 07:48 Avocadi wrote:On November 23 2015 17:20 HickoryLIVE wrote:
This is like the plot to Mean Girls Yes. If anything has been comprimised by this post, it's been my view of Graham as a mostly competent grown adult. Your actions of keeping dirt on everyone in a folder are extremely childish... also if you have evidence of shady organisations there is absolutely no reason to withhold it. Everything else, on the other hand, likely will just make you look a lot worse than the players - who we already sometimes expect to act the way they do. Sorry to break the bad news to you, but keeping dirt on people is the opposite of childish. Welcome to the real world. If someone fucks you over big time and you have nothing to prove it with, well prepare to just bend over and take it up the ass. This is why you should keep skype chat logs, etc. Otherwise it's just your word against someone else's.
I disagree. if it concerns people w/ people interactions that could go on record, they do things as close to professional channels as humanly possible legitimacy shoots up in folds.. you pay rent? keep emails, receipts, mail, but word of mouth is as simple as it sounds, there are laws for that.
people also realize that it's just as easy to fabricate images and chatlogs as it is to unintentionally misunderstand someone (also possible on purpose). keeping actual dirt is more reminiscent of actual private detectives and the like who you hire to dig shit up and take photos you don't want to be caught taking. these are more like personal quarrels through the avenue of being part of a smaller team of casters/players and small brand recognition.
we're talking about logging into battlenet and chatting it up with players over the ingame chat. that is not dirt, that is call of duty, PSN, Skype (I don't agree with Skype being a major form of organization/pro communication because of hacking, security holes, etc), convenience, non-professional channels--though they can be treated the opposite.
the only people that the 'dirt' affects is whoever released it (if named + organization) and the community members who aren't aware of the BM that's thrown around in games regardless of who you are or who you're representing.
if you can consider this this way: the only ways a player can screw over a caster is wasting his time, monetarily (this is more complicated than how it is written, though super rare), disrespecting and slander (legal action), hurting his feelings and thus his motivation and his emotions? (no legal action, just reddit bullshit, lol)
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so you wait :-)
That's the most patronising and hypocritical thing you could possibly mention, Rifkin... you made an action and you got an equal reaction, you really don't believe talking like that to people is a good and professional manner? I'm sorry for saying this kind of aggresively, but honestly you can talk like this to your close friends, not a competitor in a tournament you possibly have no bond with. Even the most bad mannered one you could think of. Even when I read this message I get annoying vibe from it.
In this case, you got what you asked for :-)
In before anyone putting words in my mouth, I talk only about the screenshot Rifkin posted.
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I can see both sides on this but seriously the unknown(Swedish, due to speaking Swedish) player starts the aggression on this one arguing that "we are players and we are on schedule" like the stream and the organization doesn't matter and that they cannot delay due to technical difficulties. Its bullshit, it doesn't matter if you are on a schedule or if you have other things planed, appointments can get postponed or cancelled, it happens every day in the real world. Dentis/doctor/lecture/work-meeting. I'm sorry but things do not revolve around you, doesn't matter if you are a patient, a student, a worker or a professional sc2 progamer. You do what you are waiting to do when it is possible to do so.
Rifkin does not handle it well, and is snarky back which is very unprofessional but he is not wrong and he does not start it.
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EPT
