• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:44
CEST 19:44
KST 02:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2312Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Syncronization issues and can't find games PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague Bot on ladder NaDa's Body SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27! PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10260 users

On TI5

Blogs > ampson
Post a Reply
ampson
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2355 Posts
August 11 2015 02:17 GMT
#1
Well, TI5 is over and it will be some time before we get quality dota again. I'd like to put my thoughts out there on a few topics related to the tournament.

The Format: I thought that this was pretty excellent this year. TI4's not letting every team get to the main stage proved to be a big mistake, as VG and VP made their way through the lower bracket for many rounds to place in the top 6. Just because a team is down doesn't mean that they should be out. I'm sure that the fans at Key Arena were happy to see their favorites play at least one game on the main stage. I like the increased number of qualifier teams. CDEC and MVP.P proved that even teams that are close to the TI cutoff are still playing good enough dota to take games off of top teams. Next year I'd like to see a similar format with perhaps 10/6 or 8/8 balance of invitees to qualified teams.

The Games: Pretty top tier. We saw some great action at all stages of the tournament, and it never felt unwatchable. Hero and strategy variety was kind of disappointing. The same first 4 bans with a 1/2 hero difference occasionally led to Gyro and lina taking over (4 gyro games in grand finals for fear) but at least these heroes promote action and each team had their own unique flavor for each hero. We saw some quality techies play and a few pocket strategies (though most failed miserably). It was pretty impressive that EG turned techies into a respect ban and opened up their drafting options.

The Compendium: I think we have reached hat saturation. I'm sure that Volvo will prove me wrong next year but 3 sets of immortals along with 2 sets from chests and the Collector's caches was a lot. The challenges/coin redemption was nice, but I felt that it was the only feature the compendium offered. I was expecting the cards again after the wild cards were over and was disappointed when they didn't show up. They were a cool way to get to know the players and the necessity for trading brought a community aspect to the collecting. You had incentive through the gems to get all of your favorite team and it was fun. I'd like for next year Valve to take an extra look at how to create the compendium and put more active components than "buy a ton of stuff."

The Presentation: Mostly great. Not too much delay between games, the group stage with 3 merlinis (PogChamp) and synderen was great. Winter was excellent at analysis. The player videos ranged in quality, but the best were incredible. Definitely a great addition and the one per team rule allowed people to get behind any team for a personality, which was great and probably helped even out the crowds. Once we got to the main event the actual broadcasters brought their A-game. Can't think of any sub-par performances from the casters and the variety and rotation helped keep everyone fresh. Redeye was an incredible host at the front desk, Merlini was solid there as well. Only thing I would have changed would be less Nahaz. Dude is clearly very passionate about the game, but talks a disproportionate amount to what he adds to the conversation. Would have liked to see more Winter here.

Kaci as an event inspector/interviewer doesn't really do it for me. She doesn't know enough about the game to really engage the fans in a way they would understand. Are there no dota players with decent enough stage presence to talk to people? It's just kind of off-putting when the interviewer doesn't know the hero the fan is cosplaying as or the members of the fan's favorite team. Next year I'd like to see a better host, maybe even multiple hosts so one person isn't carrying the burden (Soe or 2gd comes to mind) and more shots of the fans creativity (cosplays, the workshop artists section, signs at the main event).

USA Versus the World and why this Isn't a Bad Thing: Especially near the end of the tournament, you would see so many people excoriating the fans at the main event, as well as twitch chat and forums, for their Western bias. All I can say is what did you expect? It is human nature to root for people who you can relate to, and the language barrier amplifies this. Western teams are generally the ones that we follow all year. They're the ones that play and stream when we're awake. They're the ones whos twitters and interviews we read, and almost every Western fan's favorite teams are Western. Obviously we are going to cheer for them, even over Chinese teams with possibly better stories. And if you don't think that the Chinese root just as hard for their own teams as we do for ours they're disillusioned.

It's not racist or xenophobic to do this. This should be ESPECIALLY well known on this website, which is mostly ex-starcraft and SC2 players. We stayed up all night to watch starleagues to see the very highest level of play and continued to watch the tournaments even after all of our foreign hopes were eliminated by the completely dominant Koreans. So what if people chant USA USA USA when EG wins? It's simple fanboyism. Some of the comparisons I saw are just ridiculous. Some people even compared it to pre-WW2 German nationalism. LOL. If you root for a Chinese team for any reason, good for you. There's absolutely no reason to feel superior about it. People can be fans for any reason, and nearly all of them, including national origin, are valid.

Conclusion: Great TI. Finals had one great game and 3 good ones, not as hype as TI3 but miles ahead of TI4. I'd give my MVP award to Aggressif, he really carried CDEC despite Shiki's subpar play. If they still had maybe or had cty or something I think they win TI over EG, Shiki getting absolutely styled on by Sumail every game really hurt them. Proud of EG and the boys, Fear really deserves it and I'm always happy to see aui doing well. Disappointing showing for my favorites in C9, but at least Envy still has the dream of being first repeat TI winner. Changes have to be made. Looking forward greatly to the reshuffle period.

Thanks for reading if you made it.
Extterm55
Profile Joined May 2014
54 Posts
August 11 2015 04:19 GMT
#2
Well written! I liked especially your thoughts on USA Versus the World and why this Isn't a Bad Thing. A lot of fans I know that cheer for chinese teams have no issue with the NA dota fanboyism, which is I guess lucky for me.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. -Darth Bane
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12169 Posts
August 11 2015 05:20 GMT
#3
I was at a Swedish event watching the final day. The EG bias was extreme there as well. So I don't see how it can be nationalism when the same thing occurs in other countries.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
August 11 2015 07:53 GMT
#4
I loved Kaci at TI3. They needed someone to give a different angle on things and show what was going on and interact with people. No one in the scene could have pulled off what she did IMO. They needed a true professional and Kaci did a great job. She was nice, professional, and did well considering the staggering levels of awkwardness she has to deal with. TI4 she did all right. While I appreciate what she's done in the past I believe there are people in the scene that can now step into her shoes. Someone like Sheever (Pflax, 2GD, etc. Though I don't like Soe personally) I think could fill that role. Be fun and professional, interact with people and show off different things at the arena. I truly appreciate what Kaci did for us, but I think now we have people from the scene that can handle that job well.

The USA chanting people need to get over. I don't think people know how to have fun anymore. That shit is half tongue in cheek. NA teams had been garbage forever. Last year we finally saw EG show the world that we've got some world class talent. We may not have a ton of great players, but we have enough to put a team together that can put the fear of god into people. Last year they came so close, it was heart breaking. This year they finished the job. It's silly to complain about people actually having pride in a team. The world thinks Americans are loud and full of themselves. Chanting "USA! USA! USA" is 1) a way to cheer for your team certainly, but 2) a way to fit that stereotype and be an obnoxious jackass. It's a way to have fun and say "You think we're loud and annoying then I'll give you loud and annoying!". Messing with people and rustling jimmies for fun. I believe people in UK call it something like "being a cheeky cunt".

But chanting USA doesn't mean you're being racist or nationalistic. CDEC shocked the world and made a few million fans. I was rooting for FY since he's so damn amazing. It's possible to be fans of other teams, players, and countries. Anyone who thinks in absolutes like that isn't worth even talking to.

LiquidDota Staff
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
August 11 2015 16:47 GMT
#5
Who doesn't get styled upon by Sumail?
I agree that the USA chants are by no means offensive and especially with EG, a team that, to me simply feels states-like, I see no fault in that. I dont think anyone would bark at the same chant during other sports' finals.

thanks for sharing your thoughts.
passive quaranstream fan
Valhalla44
Profile Joined May 2010
Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
August 13 2015 08:50 GMT
#6
On August 12 2015 01:47 Artisreal wrote:
Who doesn't get styled upon by Sumail?
I agree that the USA chants are by no means offensive and especially with EG, a team that, to me simply feels states-like, I see no fault in that. I dont think anyone would bark at the same chant during other sports' finals.

thanks for sharing your thoughts.


Mmm he got shut down quite hard 2-3 times.
Maybe was best mid at this TI .
WP EG i like the team but hate the bias behind them and americans who can chant USA USA USA all over all dota forums.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
16:00
WardiTV 10 Group C Replay Cast
TaKeTV 363
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 136
UpATreeSC 103
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 28651
Shuttle 611
Dewaltoss 133
910 51
Trap 47
HiyA 40
ToSsGirL 25
Rock 22
yabsab 12
Dota 2
Gorgc6831
Fuzer 252
BananaSlamJamma142
febbydoto40
Counter-Strike
fl0m4589
Other Games
Grubby1936
Beastyqt566
B2W.Neo458
summit1g350
Hui .223
Liquid`VortiX180
C9.Mang0150
KnowMe134
ArmadaUGS83
QueenE75
Trikslyr45
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream13807
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 348
Other Games
BasetradeTV39
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile120
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 23
• 80smullet 14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 5626
League of Legends
• Nemesis2513
Other Games
• Shiphtur280
Upcoming Events
The PiG Daily
4h 17m
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
Serral vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
16h 17m
AI Arena Tournament
23h 17m
BSL: Ladder Tournament
1d 1h
GSL
1d 14h
Yamato Cup
1d 21h
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Soma vs Jaedong
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-23
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.