• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:40
CET 17:40
KST 01:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1288 users

On TI5

Blogs > ampson
Post a Reply
ampson
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2355 Posts
August 11 2015 02:17 GMT
#1
Well, TI5 is over and it will be some time before we get quality dota again. I'd like to put my thoughts out there on a few topics related to the tournament.

The Format: I thought that this was pretty excellent this year. TI4's not letting every team get to the main stage proved to be a big mistake, as VG and VP made their way through the lower bracket for many rounds to place in the top 6. Just because a team is down doesn't mean that they should be out. I'm sure that the fans at Key Arena were happy to see their favorites play at least one game on the main stage. I like the increased number of qualifier teams. CDEC and MVP.P proved that even teams that are close to the TI cutoff are still playing good enough dota to take games off of top teams. Next year I'd like to see a similar format with perhaps 10/6 or 8/8 balance of invitees to qualified teams.

The Games: Pretty top tier. We saw some great action at all stages of the tournament, and it never felt unwatchable. Hero and strategy variety was kind of disappointing. The same first 4 bans with a 1/2 hero difference occasionally led to Gyro and lina taking over (4 gyro games in grand finals for fear) but at least these heroes promote action and each team had their own unique flavor for each hero. We saw some quality techies play and a few pocket strategies (though most failed miserably). It was pretty impressive that EG turned techies into a respect ban and opened up their drafting options.

The Compendium: I think we have reached hat saturation. I'm sure that Volvo will prove me wrong next year but 3 sets of immortals along with 2 sets from chests and the Collector's caches was a lot. The challenges/coin redemption was nice, but I felt that it was the only feature the compendium offered. I was expecting the cards again after the wild cards were over and was disappointed when they didn't show up. They were a cool way to get to know the players and the necessity for trading brought a community aspect to the collecting. You had incentive through the gems to get all of your favorite team and it was fun. I'd like for next year Valve to take an extra look at how to create the compendium and put more active components than "buy a ton of stuff."

The Presentation: Mostly great. Not too much delay between games, the group stage with 3 merlinis (PogChamp) and synderen was great. Winter was excellent at analysis. The player videos ranged in quality, but the best were incredible. Definitely a great addition and the one per team rule allowed people to get behind any team for a personality, which was great and probably helped even out the crowds. Once we got to the main event the actual broadcasters brought their A-game. Can't think of any sub-par performances from the casters and the variety and rotation helped keep everyone fresh. Redeye was an incredible host at the front desk, Merlini was solid there as well. Only thing I would have changed would be less Nahaz. Dude is clearly very passionate about the game, but talks a disproportionate amount to what he adds to the conversation. Would have liked to see more Winter here.

Kaci as an event inspector/interviewer doesn't really do it for me. She doesn't know enough about the game to really engage the fans in a way they would understand. Are there no dota players with decent enough stage presence to talk to people? It's just kind of off-putting when the interviewer doesn't know the hero the fan is cosplaying as or the members of the fan's favorite team. Next year I'd like to see a better host, maybe even multiple hosts so one person isn't carrying the burden (Soe or 2gd comes to mind) and more shots of the fans creativity (cosplays, the workshop artists section, signs at the main event).

USA Versus the World and why this Isn't a Bad Thing: Especially near the end of the tournament, you would see so many people excoriating the fans at the main event, as well as twitch chat and forums, for their Western bias. All I can say is what did you expect? It is human nature to root for people who you can relate to, and the language barrier amplifies this. Western teams are generally the ones that we follow all year. They're the ones that play and stream when we're awake. They're the ones whos twitters and interviews we read, and almost every Western fan's favorite teams are Western. Obviously we are going to cheer for them, even over Chinese teams with possibly better stories. And if you don't think that the Chinese root just as hard for their own teams as we do for ours they're disillusioned.

It's not racist or xenophobic to do this. This should be ESPECIALLY well known on this website, which is mostly ex-starcraft and SC2 players. We stayed up all night to watch starleagues to see the very highest level of play and continued to watch the tournaments even after all of our foreign hopes were eliminated by the completely dominant Koreans. So what if people chant USA USA USA when EG wins? It's simple fanboyism. Some of the comparisons I saw are just ridiculous. Some people even compared it to pre-WW2 German nationalism. LOL. If you root for a Chinese team for any reason, good for you. There's absolutely no reason to feel superior about it. People can be fans for any reason, and nearly all of them, including national origin, are valid.

Conclusion: Great TI. Finals had one great game and 3 good ones, not as hype as TI3 but miles ahead of TI4. I'd give my MVP award to Aggressif, he really carried CDEC despite Shiki's subpar play. If they still had maybe or had cty or something I think they win TI over EG, Shiki getting absolutely styled on by Sumail every game really hurt them. Proud of EG and the boys, Fear really deserves it and I'm always happy to see aui doing well. Disappointing showing for my favorites in C9, but at least Envy still has the dream of being first repeat TI winner. Changes have to be made. Looking forward greatly to the reshuffle period.

Thanks for reading if you made it.
Extterm55
Profile Joined May 2014
54 Posts
August 11 2015 04:19 GMT
#2
Well written! I liked especially your thoughts on USA Versus the World and why this Isn't a Bad Thing. A lot of fans I know that cheer for chinese teams have no issue with the NA dota fanboyism, which is I guess lucky for me.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me. -Darth Bane
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11945 Posts
August 11 2015 05:20 GMT
#3
I was at a Swedish event watching the final day. The EG bias was extreme there as well. So I don't see how it can be nationalism when the same thing occurs in other countries.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
August 11 2015 07:53 GMT
#4
I loved Kaci at TI3. They needed someone to give a different angle on things and show what was going on and interact with people. No one in the scene could have pulled off what she did IMO. They needed a true professional and Kaci did a great job. She was nice, professional, and did well considering the staggering levels of awkwardness she has to deal with. TI4 she did all right. While I appreciate what she's done in the past I believe there are people in the scene that can now step into her shoes. Someone like Sheever (Pflax, 2GD, etc. Though I don't like Soe personally) I think could fill that role. Be fun and professional, interact with people and show off different things at the arena. I truly appreciate what Kaci did for us, but I think now we have people from the scene that can handle that job well.

The USA chanting people need to get over. I don't think people know how to have fun anymore. That shit is half tongue in cheek. NA teams had been garbage forever. Last year we finally saw EG show the world that we've got some world class talent. We may not have a ton of great players, but we have enough to put a team together that can put the fear of god into people. Last year they came so close, it was heart breaking. This year they finished the job. It's silly to complain about people actually having pride in a team. The world thinks Americans are loud and full of themselves. Chanting "USA! USA! USA" is 1) a way to cheer for your team certainly, but 2) a way to fit that stereotype and be an obnoxious jackass. It's a way to have fun and say "You think we're loud and annoying then I'll give you loud and annoying!". Messing with people and rustling jimmies for fun. I believe people in UK call it something like "being a cheeky cunt".

But chanting USA doesn't mean you're being racist or nationalistic. CDEC shocked the world and made a few million fans. I was rooting for FY since he's so damn amazing. It's possible to be fans of other teams, players, and countries. Anyone who thinks in absolutes like that isn't worth even talking to.

LiquidDota Staff
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
August 11 2015 16:47 GMT
#5
Who doesn't get styled upon by Sumail?
I agree that the USA chants are by no means offensive and especially with EG, a team that, to me simply feels states-like, I see no fault in that. I dont think anyone would bark at the same chant during other sports' finals.

thanks for sharing your thoughts.
passive quaranstream fan
Valhalla44
Profile Joined May 2010
Bosnia-Herzegovina983 Posts
August 13 2015 08:50 GMT
#6
On August 12 2015 01:47 Artisreal wrote:
Who doesn't get styled upon by Sumail?
I agree that the USA chants are by no means offensive and especially with EG, a team that, to me simply feels states-like, I see no fault in that. I dont think anyone would bark at the same chant during other sports' finals.

thanks for sharing your thoughts.


Mmm he got shut down quite hard 2-3 times.
Maybe was best mid at this TI .
WP EG i like the team but hate the bias behind them and americans who can chant USA USA USA all over all dota forums.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
16:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
SteadfastSC50
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko458
mouzHeroMarine 266
ProTech114
SteadfastSC 50
Codebar 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27199
Jaedong 2247
Calm 1007
EffOrt 960
Shuttle 724
GuemChi 718
Soma 531
Mini 503
Rush 409
Soulkey 377
[ Show more ]
ZerO 258
Snow 199
firebathero 188
BeSt 172
Sharp 89
Hyun 67
PianO 65
sorry 41
Shinee 28
Dewaltoss 28
Mong 28
Terrorterran 24
Aegong 24
soO 18
Sacsri 16
scan(afreeca) 11
HiyA 10
SilentControl 6
JulyZerg 5
Dota 2
Gorgc7410
Dendi801
syndereN464
420jenkins249
XcaliburYe237
Counter-Strike
fl0m5031
zeus3911
markeloff98
edward53
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor161
Other Games
Grubby1535
hiko923
Mlord420
DeMusliM308
ArmadaUGS119
Mew2King72
QueenE57
Trikslyr44
Livibee25
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV934
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2939
• WagamamaTV476
League of Legends
• Jankos2351
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 20m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 10h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 17h
WardiTV 2025
1d 19h
SC Evo League
1d 19h
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
3 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV 2025
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.