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I'm just writing this to let off some steam because I have had a hellish week.
So on Tuesday, my Mom and I both came down with the flu. We went to our local non-emergency clinic and were prescribed the anti-flu medicine "Tamiflu". I didn't even really feel sick, just a minor headache, but I wanted to get treated because my Dad is getting chemotherapy and cannot risk getting sick. At around 9PM, we both took our first dose of Tamiflu. Mom threw her's up within 20 minutes, and I threw up after about an hour. I spent from 10PM to 5AM either throwing up, or being on the verge of throwing up. Somehow I never ran out either. There was always more to throw up. So 5AM rolls around and I finally stop puking, and try to get some sleep. I can tell I'm definitely dehydrated and just generally feel like shit, so I don't get much sleep. I give up trying to sleep at around 10AM and start sipping water. I get a glass or two down, and they stay down, but I'm still just slowly feeling more and more nauseas over the course of the day. 4PM I throw up this vile, pitch black stuff; looked like petroleum to me, and we called 911. The EMT knew immediately it was blood and said I probably had an ulcer from all the vomiting. It gets worse.
So we get to the hospital, and the ER is packed. Like, so packed they can't give us a room, I got most my ER treatments in a hallway.
So they confirm it indeed was blood that I threw up, and run a bunch of bloodwork. Turns out I'm extremely dehydrated, electrolytes are all very low, and my blood-glucose level is 41; the nurse was surprised I was conscious when she saw the numbers.
So I get a huge shot of saline in the IV to get my fluids up, and I get a huge shot of dextrose to fix my blood sugar. Because they were administering the dextrose so quickly it burned all the way up my arm, and made my whole body feel uncomfortably warm.
The ER finally starts thinning out, I think most people were in for simple injuries and got patched up and shipped out. So after like 2 hours of being treated in a hallway we get a temporary room. I get more dextrose and saline, much slower this time and much less painful. Still was uncomfortable because my whole arm from the IV up to my shoulder was sensitive, but I actually start feeling better. I think it was a combination of adrenaline and finally getting fluids. I managed to eat a little jello, which after ~2 days of not eating tasted incredible. I get a cat scan and a few X-rays, and they don't see an ulcer, but are still pretty sure I have an open wound in my stomach or lower esophagus. I get admitted to a real room at like 8pm or so.
So I'm super tired at this point so my recollection might not be perfect or complete. I sip more water until about 11pm, get some anti-nausea medicine, and try to get some sleep. I maybe get an hour's sleep over the course of the night, between feeling terrible and nurses checking my numbers and such. Morning comes, I give up sleeping at around 9, and spend 2 hours slowly drinking more, apple juice this time. At 11 or so, they come in and say my potassium is low, and I have to drink 2 little containers of it. 30ml in total. I take one sip and nearly puke immediately. Over the course of about an hour I get one container down and keep it down, but its a real struggle and I cant risk puking again, so I ask if there's another way I can take it. I can, there's an IV kind, but they say it will hurt. So I go for the IV kind, and oh my god they were right. When they first hooked it up, it was easily the worst pain I've ever felt. I think I almost passed out. Not even my back surgery hurt that bad. + Show Spoiler +Quick aside, 10 years ago I had my spine fused and two titanium rods put in to fix my scoliosis.
So now, because I'm also hooked up to IV fluids, I really have to pee, but I'm in such bad pain I don't dare move. As soon as the potassium was done though, the pain instantly washed away, but by then I had to pee so badly it was getting hard to breathe. Like my internal pressure was getting too high for my diaphragm to fight.
So I finally go to the bathroom and its just instant relief. And now I realize my doctor wasn't so crazy trying to get me to drink the potassium instead.
So I just crash on the bed basically as soon as that whole ordeal was over and have a pretty uneventful evening. I eat a little jello, some pretzels, and a little soup, and go to bed.
at like, 5AM I think, not sure, a nurse comes in saying my magnesium is low and I need that now. She says it shouldn't hurt, but she was pretty wrong. It wasn't quite as bad as the potassium; I had almost no constant pain, and the spaces between pain episodes were longer, but the episodes themselves were just as painful. So I spent 2 more hours in horrible pain.
At 7 or whenever the magnesium was done, Mom and I both fell asleep. Hard. Like, we missed the breakfast cart, a couple doctors, and 4 or 5 phone calls.
Well, the cafeteria had misunderstood the doctors orders; I was on a clear diet: advance as tolerated. They kinda ignored the advance as tolerated and only brought me broth and jello. So we have to wait some more for them to bring me some real food so I can try to eat some solids.
I didn't actually get my breakfast till noon or so. But I get my scrambled eggs, eat quite a lot of them and don't throw up, and they send me home. My arm's still pretty tender from the IV, especially the potassium, and I still have some of the Electrocardiogram stickers on because they're tough to take off without taking skin with them, and I want to take it slow. I'm still pretty weak, and still have some minor heart palpitations from the lack of electrolytes, but overall I feel much much better.
Moral of the story, DONT FUCKING TAKE TAMIFLU!
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Your mom was okay though?
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Yeah. I have muscular dystrophy, I only weigh like 60lb's, so I got dehydrated way quicker than her. She was never actually admitted, she just stayed at the hospital with me. She's still got a cough and some sore ribs, but she's okay. We still both definitely have the flu, but as long as we don't take any more tamiflu we should be totally healthy within a few days.
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Have you considered that if you hadn't taken it, the episode might have been worse? Like, did the medical staff confirm it was tamiflu causing the reaction?
Recommending people not take a proven medicine is (statistically) more risky than taking it. It sucks that you had this reaction, but as a pretty widely prescribed medicine, Tamiflu has gone through a lot of safety hoops and it's still getting prescribed. It might not be for you, but that doesn't mean it has no value.
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I barely felt sick till I took the Tamiflu. I wouldn't have gotten dehydrated had I not puked my guts out for 8 hours. There are also tons of other complaints about severe nausea and vomiting online. The only positive things I've heard about Tamiflu are from the doctor that prescribed it. Combine that with the fact that at best, Tamiflu only cuts ~12 hours off the length of the illness and it just doesn't seem worth it.
Around 5 years ago, I had swine flu, and got the IV version of Tamiflu. That seemed to work OK, didn't make me puke. I think it just doesn't respond well to a lot of people's stomachs. I think it probably is safe, and that you just trade the fever, chills, and aches for extreme nausea and vomiting. For otherwise-healthy adults that's an ok trade I guess. For someone like me, who is easily dehydrated, its a really stupid trade.
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I see, that really sucks. Maybe it's a dosage thing also? With that kind of body weight.
Nausea and vomiting are really terrible, you can't ingest anything your body needs need to get better or regain your strength. I was on antibiotics before and felt super weak. If I had eaten anything while nauseous it would have been quickly evacuated though. Doesn't really compare to your experience though. Does your dad get nausea from the chemo and all? Maybe personal... but you hear some things about cannabinoids working miracles with nausea and your story made me wonder if you had a perspective on that.
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On March 22 2015 07:53 oBlade wrote:
I see, that really sucks. Maybe it's a dosage thing also? With that kind of body weight.
Nausea and vomiting are really terrible, you can't ingest anything your body needs need to get better or regain your strength. I was on antibiotics before and felt super weak. If I had eaten anything while nauseous it would have been quickly evacuated though. Doesn't really compare to your experience though. Does your dad get nausea from the chemo and all? Maybe personal... but you hear some things about cannabinoids working miracles with nausea and your story made me wonder if you had a perspective on that.
The first round of chemo really gave him horrible nausea, but it just never occurred to us to ask if there was anything they could do about it. Now he gets some seriously powerful anti-nausea medicine just as the round of chemo finishes, and he's mostly fine. It's stomach cancer, so he actually feels less nauseous now, even with the chemo side-effects, than he did before he started the treatment. We've definitely thought about medical marijuana and it's something he'd be up for trying if it gets bad again.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Sounds like quite the rough experience! Tamiflu only reduces the flu by 1 day so for some people, it's not really worth taking it (cost etc...) but its usually well tolerated. I think the best thing to do was to get fluids in at home, something with electrolytes like gatorade but in small amounts to prevent yourself from feeling nauseated while trying to maintain your levels.
Good thing that they didn't find an ulcer. Those glucose levels are crazy high though. Usually 7-11 is the target after eating so 41 is ridiculous ;; Glad that they managed to bring that down. Never realized that iv potassium is so painful though.
Fun tip: IV magnesium is actually given for pain but usually with an anaesthetic (lidocaine). Anyways, glad to hear that you're out of there and that you're recovering, same with your mom recovering. I would just put the expereince behind you and get some well deserved rest.
On March 22 2015 08:05 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 07:53 oBlade wrote:
I see, that really sucks. Maybe it's a dosage thing also? With that kind of body weight.
Nausea and vomiting are really terrible, you can't ingest anything your body needs need to get better or regain your strength. I was on antibiotics before and felt super weak. If I had eaten anything while nauseous it would have been quickly evacuated though. Doesn't really compare to your experience though. Does your dad get nausea from the chemo and all? Maybe personal... but you hear some things about cannabinoids working miracles with nausea and your story made me wonder if you had a perspective on that. The first round of chemo really gave him horrible nausea, but it just never occurred to us to ask if there was anything they could do about it. Now he gets some seriously powerful anti-nausea medicine just as the round of chemo finishes, and he's mostly fine. It's stomach cancer, so he actually feels less nauseous now, even with the chemo side-effects, than he did before he started the treatment. We've definitely thought about medical marijuana and it's something he'd be up for trying if it gets bad again.
Depending on the regimen and its potential for nausea, up here, it's normal for adults to get some anti-nausea medications but its usually for a short duration.
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As someone who just finished pharmacy school, I've never worked with a pharmacist who actually thought dispensing Tamiflu was a good idea outside of acute symptoms/patients already requiring hospitalization. They dispense it because the docs send prescriptions, but they're usually shaking their heads when it comes in. It just doesn't do enough and can give you nasty nausea as you found out.
Edit: Also, PSA for anyone treating dehydration due to nausea, diarrhea, or vomiting at home, even as an adult Pedialyte >>>> Gatorade. It tastes terrible, of course, but Gatorade lacks a lot of nutrients you need.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On March 22 2015 11:27 TheTenthDoc wrote:
As someone who just finished pharmacy school, I've never worked with a pharmacist who actually thought dispensing Tamiflu was a good idea outside of acute symptoms/patients already requiring hospitalization. They dispense it because the docs send prescriptions, but they're usually shaking their heads when it comes in. It just doesn't do enough and can give you nasty nausea as you found out.
Edit: Also, PSA for anyone treating dehydration due to nausea, diarrhea, or vomiting at home, even as an adult Pedialyte >>>> Gatorade. It tastes terrible, of course, but Gatorade lacks a lot of nutrients you need.
I don't disagree, just saying that he should've hydrated himself and used something that has electrolytes in it so just gave gatorade as an example.
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Before I took the Tamiflu, I was hydrating myself. After I took it though, I couldn't keep much of anything down for the 8 hours of vomiting. Pedialyte is pretty effective, but only if it stays down. And at some point during those 8 hours, I tore a blood vessel in my esophagus or stomach, and was basically guaranteed a hospital visit at that point.
BigFan, I think you misunderstood the glucose thing. Blood sugar levels are supposed to be quite a bit higher than 41. Pretty sure ~100 is normal. Maybe we use a different scale here in the US or something.
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TLADT24920 Posts
ah rough.
We use mmol/L up here, so, 7-11 mmol/L is what I meant. I believe that you guys use mg/dl so yes, you're right. Should've mentioned units lol.
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Wikipidia says:
"... recommended use of Tamiflu is for people who have complications or are at high risk for complications who present within 48 hours of first symptoms of infection. Recommended is its use to prevent infection in at-risk people but not the general population."
So either both you and your mum had some kind of high risk or your doctor was trolling you.
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EPT
