• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:25
CEST 00:25
KST 07:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy7[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple1BSL Season 235Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
new ranked ladder hack? Bot on ladder New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27! [BSL23] SM: Ret vs TerrOr -> DragOn vs StRyKeR [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8920 users

American teams should consolidate

Blogs > aboxcar
Post a Reply
Normal
aboxcar
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-21 10:09:49
December 21 2014 10:07 GMT
#1
NA teams should consolidate now in preparation for TI quals. At present, strong contenders likely include Fluff stack, Not Today. Serious players should try and form a team with a real shot.

My Christmas wish list:

Brax, 1437, Whitebeard, YawaR, USH.

Brax: One of the better captains with actual ideas. Hope you can repeat your success again this year. I think a team with players who value stability and levelheadedness is most workable, hope you can find those players.

Whitebeard: Great support, with the right players could be even better. Support duos like FY + Fenrir can take over the entire game, hope we can see that kind of impact in the American scene too.

Yawar: fame should follow merit.

USH: poaching USH serves two purposes. One, a team composed of the best available carries will always be a force, regardless of how they split the positions. Two, it will weaken other teams who rely heavily on these stable carries as their foundation.

In closing, I want to remind all that draft and strategy are crucial. Scapegoating, musical chairs with players, etc. is often but a distraction and can't make up for lack of strategic insight.

Moonmeander in particular, I think if he could clean up his play and be more stable, and ditch those Hon players with no clue, could be a contender too.

There are really lots of decent, lesser known players. Shibby is pretty good too for instance. Hope they can band together and move #USA forward.

P.S. final wish: Fear please stop playing safelane tide.

Merry Christmas
everything that rises must converge
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
December 21 2014 10:30 GMT
#2
did you consider korok or forgot about him?
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-21 14:18:26
December 21 2014 14:17 GMT
#3
Moonmeander is alright, but with his current team holding him back like you mentioned, I don't think he will be free to join any teams.

E: NA dota is NA dota in the end, just accept it and move on.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
December 21 2014 18:02 GMT
#4
EE + RTZ is the NA dream. But just be happy that EG came together and represents NA. Fluff stack (fluff/ixmike/tc?) is way too dependent on TC's back and they simply dont have the skill to compete at the TI level. Other than Smash, Not Today is pretty lukewarm and overall their lack of experience is pretty glaring. I agree moon would be wise to ditch Swindle and company if he wants to accomplish anything in Dota 2 but I dont think you could build an NA team around him that would have enough talent + experience to make a real run at TI. Basically, EG is the strongest "consolidation" of players that NA could hope for atm.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
December 21 2014 19:18 GMT
#5
On December 21 2014 19:30 icystorage wrote:
did you consider korok or forgot about him?


Pubbing and the professional game are very different games. Sometimes going full pub in professional games will still work. That's getting less and less viable though.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
trifecta
Profile Joined April 2010
United States6795 Posts
December 21 2014 20:42 GMT
#6
demon's still a free agent too. don't know if he's in form though.
GranDGranT
Profile Joined April 2011
Sri Lanka2141 Posts
December 22 2014 00:15 GMT
#7
I feel you shouldnt be making these threads considering Yawar is already currently in a team with Sumhail and Tralf who are bette rthen the other 4 you posted should join him
All Dota 2 casters are bad at their job
Spicy_Curry
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States10573 Posts
December 22 2014 00:22 GMT
#8
Sumhail is a beast
High Risk Low Reward
cheese sandwich
Profile Joined July 2014
Russian Federation194 Posts
December 22 2014 02:11 GMT
#9
I think you forgot to add yourself on one of the teams.
G3CKO
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1430 Posts
December 24 2014 08:47 GMT
#10
I always liked Theeban as a player. I hope he will have a resurgence as a player again.
┌⋉⊳∀⊲) ☆ If your soul has not truly given up, then you can hear the sound that races through the end of the world.
zturchan
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada156 Posts
December 28 2014 06:53 GMT
#11
Just FYI, 1437 said he is officially done with playing and onlyw ants ot coach for the foreseeable future, so sorry to burst your bubble on that .
aboxcar
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States447 Posts
December 28 2014 22:59 GMT
#12
The top teams know that anything you want to do has to be done soon.

What about NA hopefuls!?
everything that rises must converge
Beirut
Profile Joined January 2011
United States673 Posts
December 29 2014 22:03 GMT
#13
Sorry to butt in.. but who is this Sumail guy and where can I watch him play? Have heard his name come up all over the place when people talk about the upcoming shuffle.
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 29 2014 22:18 GMT
#14
On December 30 2014 07:03 Beirut wrote:
Sorry to butt in.. but who is this Sumail guy and where can I watch him play? Have heard his name come up all over the place when people talk about the upcoming shuffle.

15 year old player, i believe from canada (but is pakistani). used to be one of the top MMRs on the american leaderboard, but plays NEL now. he stood in root gaming for a short time in SL 11.

from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
December 30 2014 02:42 GMT
#15
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 30 2014 07:01 GMT
#16
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-30 13:49:37
December 30 2014 13:49 GMT
#17
On December 30 2014 16:01 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi


i think that was true for artour on some heroes like TA and SF but not on others like puck or qop

i still remember when RTZ was a god of laning stage (including common solo kills) and then would throw relentlessly past it by prioritizing diving over farm
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 30 2014 19:02 GMT
#18
On December 30 2014 22:49 Kraznaya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2014 16:01 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi


i think that was true for artour on some heroes like TA and SF but not on others like puck or qop

i still remember when RTZ was a god of laning stage (including common solo kills) and then would throw relentlessly past it by prioritizing diving over farm

rtz was never a great puck or qop player though. i also thought his storm was always merely decent

even when rtz was stomping joke teams he'd never do this shit

LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Beirut
Profile Joined January 2011
United States673 Posts
December 30 2014 20:03 GMT
#19
On December 31 2014 04:02 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2014 22:49 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 16:01 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi


i think that was true for artour on some heroes like TA and SF but not on others like puck or qop

i still remember when RTZ was a god of laning stage (including common solo kills) and then would throw relentlessly past it by prioritizing diving over farm

rtz was never a great puck or qop player though. i also thought his storm was always merely decent

even when rtz was stomping joke teams he'd never do this shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHSXk9HPk0o


Do you have a timestamp for what you're pointing out, or just the game in general?
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 30 2014 20:48 GMT
#20
On December 31 2014 05:03 Beirut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2014 04:02 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 22:49 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 16:01 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi


i think that was true for artour on some heroes like TA and SF but not on others like puck or qop

i still remember when RTZ was a god of laning stage (including common solo kills) and then would throw relentlessly past it by prioritizing diving over farm

rtz was never a great puck or qop player though. i also thought his storm was always merely decent

even when rtz was stomping joke teams he'd never do this shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHSXk9HPk0o


Do you have a timestamp for what you're pointing out, or just the game in general?

game in general

sumail goes blink-MoM-euls shadowfiend. can tell they're not taking the game too seriously, but lol really?
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-30 21:15:15
December 30 2014 21:15 GMT
#21
On December 31 2014 04:02 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2014 22:49 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 16:01 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi


i think that was true for artour on some heroes like TA and SF but not on others like puck or qop

i still remember when RTZ was a god of laning stage (including common solo kills) and then would throw relentlessly past it by prioritizing diving over farm

rtz was never a great puck or qop player though. i also thought his storm was always merely decent

even when rtz was stomping joke teams he'd never do this shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHSXk9HPk0o


when he started playing IXDL literally the only hero he played with qop

and rtz not a good puck, seriously?

do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-30 23:35:10
December 30 2014 23:31 GMT
#22
On December 31 2014 06:15 Kraznaya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2014 04:02 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 22:49 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 16:01 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi


i think that was true for artour on some heroes like TA and SF but not on others like puck or qop

i still remember when RTZ was a god of laning stage (including common solo kills) and then would throw relentlessly past it by prioritizing diving over farm

rtz was never a great puck or qop player though. i also thought his storm was always merely decent

even when rtz was stomping joke teams he'd never do this shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHSXk9HPk0o


when he started playing IXDL literally the only hero he played with qop

and rtz not a good puck, seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILpLb2xg04s

a couple highlights is really not enough to say that rtz was a great puck and qop, you could do the same with a lot of other players, and lets not forget that qop was quite the versatile mid back then

my point is, sure he could play them well, but did he stand out from the best players in pro matches? that is what i mean by great-- something the player was known for in pro matches or something that they were better at than most other players. i've never thought that arteezy's puck or qop were fearsome when i watched kaipi, as opposed to s4 or even fata on puck or mushi dendi or 430 on qop
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
aboxcar
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States447 Posts
December 31 2014 00:07 GMT
#23
s4's puck was great cause of the way his team used him though, not because of how the player used it imo
everything that rises must converge
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 31 2014 02:54 GMT
#24
On December 31 2014 09:07 aboxcar wrote:
s4's puck was great cause of the way his team used him though, not because of how the player used it imo

i suggest you watch some s4 puck fpvods then
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
aboxcar
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
United States447 Posts
December 31 2014 03:24 GMT
#25
link?

i remember he would always phase shift nyx stuns and stuff, and i found it notable because his bkb reaction timing on other heroes was pretty slow
everything that rises must converge
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 31 2014 05:19 GMT
#26
On December 31 2014 12:24 aboxcar wrote:
link?

i remember he would always phase shift nyx stuns and stuff, and i found it notable because his bkb reaction timing on other heroes was pretty slow

semi recent game against denial (the frenchies)
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-31 09:02:39
December 31 2014 09:02 GMT
#27
On December 31 2014 08:31 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2014 06:15 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 31 2014 04:02 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 22:49 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 16:01 rabidch wrote:
On December 30 2014 11:42 Kraznaya wrote:
On December 30 2014 07:18 rabidch wrote:


from what i've seen of his play hes very mechanically stable but a very aggressive player


which describes rtz before he went pro

rtz was not an aggressive player really. he sometimes did some ballsy moves but he was always a player that put farm progression over tempo setting. sumail is more of a play maker that enjoys having farm, like fata or dendi


i think that was true for artour on some heroes like TA and SF but not on others like puck or qop

i still remember when RTZ was a god of laning stage (including common solo kills) and then would throw relentlessly past it by prioritizing diving over farm

rtz was never a great puck or qop player though. i also thought his storm was always merely decent

even when rtz was stomping joke teams he'd never do this shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHSXk9HPk0o


when he started playing IXDL literally the only hero he played with qop

and rtz not a good puck, seriously?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILpLb2xg04s

a couple highlights is really not enough to say that rtz was a great puck and qop, you could do the same with a lot of other players, and lets not forget that qop was quite the versatile mid back then

my point is, sure he could play them well, but did he stand out from the best players in pro matches? that is what i mean by great-- something the player was known for in pro matches or something that they were better at than most other players. i've never thought that arteezy's puck or qop were fearsome when i watched kaipi, as opposed to s4 or even fata on puck or mushi dendi or 430 on qop


if u read my original post i was talking about rtzs tendencies and skillset before he went pro (ie when a-god was a rumor on nadota forums and he played a ton of mm and ixdl) not when he was playing on kp
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 77
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 78
910 24
Dota 2
monkeys_forever303
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King73
PPMD40
Other Games
summit1g7320
Liquid`RaSZi3720
Grubby2654
FrodaN1568
shahzam444
JimRising 408
B2W.Neo242
C9.Mang0192
ToD178
SteadfastSC115
Trikslyr71
CosmosSc2 3
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV52
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 50
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22230
League of Legends
• TFBlade1044
• Scarra746
Other Games
• imaqtpie655
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 35m
Afreeca Starleague
11h 35m
Light vs EffOrt
OSC
13h 35m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 1h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 12h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
GSL
5 days
[ Show More ]
Yamato Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.