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On April 18 2014 02:57 Djzapz wrote:
It's not completely outlandish to compare conscription to slavery, especially when there's no way out and emigrating to avoid it is not easy and probably impossible much of the time. I've heard that in some places, you can give up your citizenship to avoid the conscription. Was it in SK? Either way, losing your citizenship is a massive deal.
That said, the difference isn't that obvious. You're being forced to work for the State instead of for some private entity. The difference is that you don't create anything, but defend the State's interests, which often happens to line up with yours. It's perhaps not as heinous as slavery because everyone goes through it, it doesn't reduce another 'race' of people to slavery - rather, it exploits existing potential in everyone. It's not racist nor exclusive...
The conscription is shit but significantly less repulsive than slavery which reduces people to the level of animals or machines.
Are women required to serve as well?
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On April 19 2014 03:12 Demonhunter04 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 02:57 Djzapz wrote:
It's not completely outlandish to compare conscription to slavery, especially when there's no way out and emigrating to avoid it is not easy and probably impossible much of the time. I've heard that in some places, you can give up your citizenship to avoid the conscription. Was it in SK? Either way, losing your citizenship is a massive deal.
That said, the difference isn't that obvious. You're being forced to work for the State instead of for some private entity. The difference is that you don't create anything, but defend the State's interests, which often happens to line up with yours. It's perhaps not as heinous as slavery because everyone goes through it, it doesn't reduce another 'race' of people to slavery - rather, it exploits existing potential in everyone. It's not racist nor exclusive...
The conscription is shit but significantly less repulsive than slavery which reduces people to the level of animals or machines. Are women required to serve as well?
Guess not. It still isn't slavery though 
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On April 19 2014 03:12 Demonhunter04 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 02:57 Djzapz wrote:
It's not completely outlandish to compare conscription to slavery, especially when there's no way out and emigrating to avoid it is not easy and probably impossible much of the time. I've heard that in some places, you can give up your citizenship to avoid the conscription. Was it in SK? Either way, losing your citizenship is a massive deal.
That said, the difference isn't that obvious. You're being forced to work for the State instead of for some private entity. The difference is that you don't create anything, but defend the State's interests, which often happens to line up with yours. It's perhaps not as heinous as slavery because everyone goes through it, it doesn't reduce another 'race' of people to slavery - rather, it exploits existing potential in everyone. It's not racist nor exclusive...
The conscription is shit but significantly less repulsive than slavery which reduces people to the level of animals or machines. Are women required to serve as well?
No , women don't serve
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On April 19 2014 01:23 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2014 17:00 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 02:17 GettingIt wrote:On April 18 2014 01:53 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 01:49 GettingIt wrote:
So all the males in Greece have been or will be a slave for 9 months? No wonder Greece has a lot of problems. Wow. Way to compare obligatory military service to slavery... Whats the difference? The army teach you how to understand hierarchy, to be organize, to streghten your mental also that teach you "team work" and lots of other thing. So it's not slavery if you tell your slaves to understand hierarchy (LOL), to be organized and to strengthen whatever and teamwork and other stuff? So it's okay to enslave people if you teach them shit. Noted.
You made a pretty good post with difference and all betwenn conscription and slavery and now you post this. I don't get it.
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On April 22 2014 18:50 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2014 01:23 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2014 17:00 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 02:17 GettingIt wrote:On April 18 2014 01:53 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 01:49 GettingIt wrote:
So all the males in Greece have been or will be a slave for 9 months? No wonder Greece has a lot of problems. Wow. Way to compare obligatory military service to slavery... Whats the difference? The army teach you how to understand hierarchy, to be organize, to streghten your mental also that teach you "team work" and lots of other thing. So it's not slavery if you tell your slaves to understand hierarchy (LOL), to be organized and to strengthen whatever and teamwork and other stuff? So it's okay to enslave people if you teach them shit. Noted. You made a pretty good post with difference and all betwenn conscription and slavery and now you post this. I don't get it.
My post was fair, yours wasn't. The fact that the army teaches things is not a good way to point at the differences.
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On April 23 2014 02:33 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2014 18:50 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 19 2014 01:23 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2014 17:00 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 02:17 GettingIt wrote:On April 18 2014 01:53 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 01:49 GettingIt wrote:
So all the males in Greece have been or will be a slave for 9 months? No wonder Greece has a lot of problems. Wow. Way to compare obligatory military service to slavery... Whats the difference? The army teach you how to understand hierarchy, to be organize, to streghten your mental also that teach you "team work" and lots of other thing. So it's not slavery if you tell your slaves to understand hierarchy (LOL), to be organized and to strengthen whatever and teamwork and other stuff? So it's okay to enslave people if you teach them shit. Noted. You made a pretty good post with difference and all betwenn conscription and slavery and now you post this. I don't get it. My post was fair, yours wasn't. The fact that the army teaches things is not a good way to point at the differences.
I guess it's the language barrier because it's hard to explain for me. Well i'll leave it with your post since i agree with it.
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On April 23 2014 17:26 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 02:33 Djzapz wrote:On April 22 2014 18:50 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 19 2014 01:23 Djzapz wrote:On April 18 2014 17:00 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 02:17 GettingIt wrote:On April 18 2014 01:53 FFW_Rude wrote:On April 18 2014 01:49 GettingIt wrote:
So all the males in Greece have been or will be a slave for 9 months? No wonder Greece has a lot of problems. Wow. Way to compare obligatory military service to slavery... Whats the difference? The army teach you how to understand hierarchy, to be organize, to streghten your mental also that teach you "team work" and lots of other thing. So it's not slavery if you tell your slaves to understand hierarchy (LOL), to be organized and to strengthen whatever and teamwork and other stuff? So it's okay to enslave people if you teach them shit. Noted. You made a pretty good post with difference and all betwenn conscription and slavery and now you post this. I don't get it. My post was fair, yours wasn't. The fact that the army teaches things is not a good way to point at the differences. I guess it's the language barrier because it's hard to explain for me. Well i'll leave it with your post since i agree with it.
Well if you want you could always PM me in French. I'm from a fallen colony of yours :D
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Comparing conscription to slavery is pretty dumb. Why not compare public education to slavery while you're at it? It tends to be compulsory as well and you don't get paid for attending school, either...
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On April 24 2014 04:18 Salazarz wrote:
Comparing conscription to slavery is pretty dumb. Why not compare public education to slavery while you're at it? It tends to be compulsory as well and you don't get paid for attending school, either...
Its not slavery if you are teaching them shit. Oh wait.
Working with your parents since an early age could also be slavery in that sense.
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There are actually various tenable justifications given for conscription. You can say it's a social obligation given that only through the protection of the nation you, in essence, exist as you do today. You can say that it's not only justified by not "mandatory" given that you've voluntarily decided to stay in the nation while fully knowing your inevitable conscription at a later date. You can say it's a means to break class barriers and create a more cohesive society by requiring all men to come together, regardless of origin, during a particular time in their adolescence. There's actually a lot you can potentially say. It becomes a problem only when justification is no longer valid in the current reality.
With slavery, there is really no justification. You can't appeal to history or religion, and current economic theory doesn't align economic growth with the establishment of slavery. Actually, it severely hampers it.
On a related vein, conscription is pretty expensive to the State under current economic theory. In a majority of cases it a vastly inefficient use of human capital. So it isn't very wise for the State to mandate conscription unless they have some overriding justification that outweighs the economic detriment from doing so. And especially so for a small nation like Greece.
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EPT
