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On October 11 2013 03:37 corumjhaelen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 03:30 koreasilver wrote:On October 11 2013 02:08 corumjhaelen wrote:On October 11 2013 02:03 packrat386 wrote:
By the way, if you could somehow arrive at a proof that there is no god using only our assumptions about the nature of god and formal logic you could have a faculty position at any philosophy dept in the country I trust that a pretty smart guy called Emmanuel said something interesting about that question a few hundred years ago  Kant never even claimed to be able to show that there was no God though. He was only really interested in showing that all the arguments for the existence of God was wrong/futile. So while it's obvious that he abhorred various apologetic arguments for having faulty logic, he still nevertheless did engage in some forms of apologia for religion. ps. Russel sucks massive dick if only because his readings of the post-Hegelian Europeans is so bad. I honestly wouldn't really have any respect for him if he didn't play such a vital role in raising Wittgenstein. What i meant is that Kant proved (or seeked to prove, but I thinjk his case is very convincing) that reason can't say anything about god, which "settles" the question in a way.
Reason is not very apt at dealing with unreasonable claims. It doesn't change anything in this discussion. Kant is right, but it doesn't help with anyone's argument.
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On October 10 2013 10:00 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 09:51 Sermokala wrote:On October 10 2013 09:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2013 08:03 Sermokala wrote:If god created all the animals before making the humans that means that if humans evolved from Monkeys it is compliant with the creation of the universe story. boom evolution is now a pro god theory. YOUR MOVE SCIENCE. + Show Spoiler +I've been waiting for a suitable thread for this for a really long time. I'm going to assume sarcasm? That made no sense, both on the evolutionary explanation and on the Genesis order of Creation. You are wrong on both counts. God created adam right after creating the land animals. And evolution is about how humans evovled from animals. specificaly it says that he created plants then aquatic and airborne life then he said the land should produce and support life. All this works alongside evolution your move science. I just have to point this out, not to be mean or anything, but there's one thing that always bugs me about the order of creation in Genesis: Day 1: Light and Darkness Day 2: Earth's atmosphere Day 3: Land and Sea / vegetation Day 4: Stars <------------------------------------ wait what Day 5: Fish / Birds Day 6: Land animals / Humans Day 7: Rested
Well when you read the Bible you have to read it from a Geocentric point of view, not a post-Heliocentric one as we have today. The stars were thought to exist in a sphere around the earth, in the same space as heaven and the angels. In this sense, creating the stars in a day is akin to creating the atmosphere in a day, because they were relatively similar sizes. Not only that, but god can do anything. 
On October 10 2013 07:22 Zetter wrote:Well, I'd go for "humans". Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 06:56 hp.Shell wrote:
So my word to describe Christians would be
"Lazy"
and my word to describe Christianity would be
"Nonliteral"
I picked nonliteral because if you read the Bible the way it is supposed to be interpreted, you will understand that its story is mostly about the human body and the zodiac. So when I think of Christians, I think they are lazy because they have not made the effort to come to the conclusion that someone comes to after the correct interpretation of the Bible.
Edit: and by choosing Christianity for a religion, all Christians are lazy in that they have not interpreted their own religion to see it as a study of the human body and astrology, thereby bypassing Christianity in favor of something like astrotheology and/or holistic spirituality. Just my curiosity: Why is the bible supposed to be interpreted as a study of astrology and the human body?
Back in the times before central heat and air, but after the Neolithic revolution in agriculture, the northern hemisphere was very cold in winter. Let's think Geocentrically, with the sun revolving around the earth as early Christians did. We know today that the transit of the sun across the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn creates the seasons, so the sun also creates winter. And so in the winter near the Capricornian solstice the sun's power wanes in the north and the sun-god can be thought of as evil or a devil, He who creates the cold and kills the weak and hungry. But when the sun begins to move back toward the north, he is reborn and his power grows, bringing new life and a new season of agriculture, providing food for everything on the earth.
Christianity comes from the word Christ. 'Christ' means 'light'. Light is what the Bible says god is. God is light. So the church of Christianity comes from the church of light. That's why the Pope carries the sun, also called the Monstrance. He goes around behind the sun.
Catholic means universal, universal means all-encompassing. If it's an all-encompassing church, this means it must not be biased towards one of those orbs, the first being the sun. So there are seven orbs, and they are the seven that the days of the week are named after. Sun = Sunday, Moon = Monday, Mars = Tiw (or Týr) = Tuesday, Mercury = Odin = Wodanaz = Wednesday, Jupiter = Thor = Thursday (also Guruvar = guru var || guru is the style for Brhaspati regent of Jupiter), Venus = Frigg = Frigedaeg = Friday, Saturn = Saturday.
If you care to look in the Bible, you will find reverence for all seven of these orbs. For example, Saints Peter and Paul are named after / have their names related to Jupiter and Apollo, who is associated with Mercury. As for the 12 apostles, they represent the 12 signs of the zodiac.
If you look at da Vinci's Last Supper, you will see Jesus, the sun, with his 12 apostles. The apostles are grouped in 3s, which may be of importance and it in fact represents the division of the signs among the four seasons.
The zodiac signs, from the beginning of spring to the end of winter, run as follows: Ares, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces.
The apostle Judas represents Scorpio, the scorpion, the back-biter, the treasonous. According to the Bible, Judas identified Jesus to the soldiers by means of a kiss. A scorpion bite looks like a red mark in the shape of lips, essentially a red dot with a red ring surrounding it, therefore Judas is Scorpio the scorpion, and his kiss the scorpion-bite.
Jesus is sitting between Virgo and Libra, on the transition from Summer to Autumn, when the sun begins to die. The last supper is a story that takes place just before the son Jesus dies on the cross (of the zodiac). The sun moves to the underworld, Autumn and Winter on the zodiac wheel, and is in the south, where the "land down under" Australia sits. Of course in the southern hemisphere the southern sun brings summer, but we are talking about the Roman church, and Rome and the old world that developed Christianity sits in the north, and so we have north = summer, south = winter.
The sun is the true savior of everything on earth, for without it we would all be dead from cold and starvation.
Unfortunately I have spent most of my time explaining the zodiac portion of Biblical teachings. However, the zodiac signs also describe the human body. Ares is the head, Taurus is the bottom of the head (cerebellum), Gemini is the arms, Cancer is the chest/breasts, Leo is the heart (Leo is called the lion-heart), Virgo is the belly or womb (where the woman grows during pregnancy), Libra are the kidneys, Scorpio is the genital region, Sagittarius is the hips, Capricorn is the knee-Caps, Aquarius are the shins, and Pisces, the two (Latin=) fish, represent the two feet (the pedites in Latin).
The seven chakras form the seven major colors of the visible light spectrum (the rainbow). When you go to the lower three chakras, you have red, orange and yellow. These are associated with hell. The green heart middle chakra is associated with the earth, and the top three blue indigo violet are associated with heaven, which is a word related to "head" and has similar origin.
This rising from the lower three towards the higher three has been called Jacob's Ladder, the Stairway to Heaven (think Led Zeppelin), and the Caduceus, which the sun-god Hermes carried. The Caduceus is the symbol of commerce, theft, deception and death, though it is also used in place of the similar Rod of Asclepius as a symbol for medicine. (Or perhaps it is simply used in the medical field as a symbol of deception and death? Cue failed FDA chemical pills causing death and disease.)
Jesus dies at 33, there are 33 spinal vertebre including the 24 major bones and the 9 smaller ones at the bottom of the spine that fuse into 2 during adolescence. You will therefore find this number to be 26 in many medical texts, though the original number is 33 before fusion.
There is so much more to learn, obviously I have only touched the surface of this topic with so many words, but if you want more I will not give it myself, rather please ask or PM me and I will direct you to appropriate sources where you can learn it yourself.
Thanks for reading.
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On October 11 2013 05:25 farvacola wrote:
Dan Brown, is that you?
10/10 would wildly theorize again.
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On October 11 2013 05:19 hp.Shell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 10:00 ninazerg wrote:On October 10 2013 09:51 Sermokala wrote:On October 10 2013 09:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2013 08:03 Sermokala wrote:If god created all the animals before making the humans that means that if humans evolved from Monkeys it is compliant with the creation of the universe story. boom evolution is now a pro god theory. YOUR MOVE SCIENCE. + Show Spoiler +I've been waiting for a suitable thread for this for a really long time. I'm going to assume sarcasm? That made no sense, both on the evolutionary explanation and on the Genesis order of Creation. You are wrong on both counts. God created adam right after creating the land animals. And evolution is about how humans evovled from animals. specificaly it says that he created plants then aquatic and airborne life then he said the land should produce and support life. All this works alongside evolution your move science. I just have to point this out, not to be mean or anything, but there's one thing that always bugs me about the order of creation in Genesis: Day 1: Light and Darkness Day 2: Earth's atmosphere Day 3: Land and Sea / vegetation Day 4: Stars <------------------------------------ wait what Day 5: Fish / Birds Day 6: Land animals / Humans Day 7: Rested Well when you read the Bible you have to read it from a Geocentric point of view, not a post-Heliocentric one as we have today. The stars were thought to exist in a sphere around the earth, in the same space as heaven and the angels. In this sense, creating the stars in a day is akin to creating the atmosphere in a day, because they were relatively similar sizes. Not only that, but god can do anything. Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 07:22 Zetter wrote:Well, I'd go for "humans". On October 10 2013 06:56 hp.Shell wrote:
So my word to describe Christians would be
"Lazy"
and my word to describe Christianity would be
"Nonliteral"
I picked nonliteral because if you read the Bible the way it is supposed to be interpreted, you will understand that its story is mostly about the human body and the zodiac. So when I think of Christians, I think they are lazy because they have not made the effort to come to the conclusion that someone comes to after the correct interpretation of the Bible.
Edit: and by choosing Christianity for a religion, all Christians are lazy in that they have not interpreted their own religion to see it as a study of the human body and astrology, thereby bypassing Christianity in favor of something like astrotheology and/or holistic spirituality. Just my curiosity: Why is the bible supposed to be interpreted as a study of astrology and the human body? + Show Spoiler +
Back in the times before central heat and air, but after the Neolithic revolution in agriculture, the northern hemisphere was very cold in winter. Let's think Geocentrically, with the sun revolving around the earth as early Christians did. We know today that the transit of the sun across the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn creates the seasons, so the sun also creates winter. And so in the winter near the Capricornian solstice the sun's power wanes in the north and the sun-god can be thought of as evil or a devil, He who creates the cold and kills the weak and hungry. But when the sun begins to move back toward the north, he is reborn and his power grows, bringing new life and a new season of agriculture, providing food for everything on the earth.
Christianity comes from the word Christ. 'Christ' means 'light'. Light is what the Bible says god is. God is light. So the church of Christianity comes from the church of light. That's why the Pope carries the sun, also called the Monstrance. He goes around behind the sun.
Catholic means universal, universal means all-encompassing. If it's an all-encompassing church, this means it must not be biased towards one of those orbs, the first being the sun. So there are seven orbs, and they are the seven that the days of the week are named after. Sun = Sunday, Moon = Monday, Mars = Tiw (or Týr) = Tuesday, Mercury = Odin = Wodanaz = Wednesday, Jupiter = Thor = Thursday (also Guruvar = guru var || guru is the style for Brhaspati regent of Jupiter), Venus = Frigg = Frigedaeg = Friday, Saturn = Saturday.
If you care to look in the Bible, you will find reverence for all seven of these orbs. For example, Saints Peter and Paul are named after / have their names related to Jupiter and Apollo, who is associated with Mercury. As for the 12 apostles, they represent the 12 signs of the zodiac.
If you look at da Vinci's Last Supper, you will see Jesus, the sun, with his 12 apostles. The apostles are grouped in 3s, which may be of importance and it in fact represents the division of the signs among the four seasons.
The zodiac signs, from the beginning of spring to the end of winter, run as follows: Ares, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces.
The apostle Judas represents Scorpio, the scorpion, the back-biter, the treasonous. According to the Bible, Judas identified Jesus to the soldiers by means of a kiss. A scorpion bite looks like a red mark in the shape of lips, essentially a red dot with a red ring surrounding it, therefore Judas is Scorpio the scorpion, and his kiss the scorpion-bite.
Jesus is sitting between Virgo and Libra, on the transition from Summer to Autumn, when the sun begins to die. The last supper is a story that takes place just before the son Jesus dies on the cross (of the zodiac). The sun moves to the underworld, Autumn and Winter on the zodiac wheel, and is in the south, where the "land down under" Australia sits. Of course in the southern hemisphere the southern sun brings summer, but we are talking about the Roman church, and Rome and the old world that developed Christianity sits in the north, and so we have north = summer, south = winter.
The sun is the true savior of everything on earth, for without it we would all be dead from cold and starvation.
Unfortunately I have spent most of my time explaining the zodiac portion of Biblical teachings. However, the zodiac signs also describe the human body. Ares is the head, Taurus is the bottom of the head (cerebellum), Gemini is the arms, Cancer is the chest/breasts, Leo is the heart (Leo is called the lion-heart), Virgo is the belly or womb (where the woman grows during pregnancy), Libra are the kidneys, Scorpio is the genital region, Sagittarius is the hips, Capricorn is the knee-Caps, Aquarius are the shins, and Pisces, the two (Latin=) fish, represent the two feet (the pedites in Latin).
The seven chakras form the seven major colors of the visible light spectrum (the rainbow). When you go to the lower three chakras, you have red, orange and yellow. These are associated with hell. The green heart middle chakra is associated with the earth, and the top three blue indigo violet are associated with heaven, which is a word related to "head" and has similar origin.
This rising from the lower three towards the higher three has been called Jacob's Ladder, the Stairway to Heaven (think Led Zeppelin), and the Caduceus, which the sun-god Hermes carried. The Caduceus is the symbol of commerce, theft, deception and death, though it is also used in place of the similar Rod of Asclepius as a symbol for medicine. (Or perhaps it is simply used in the medical field as a symbol of deception and death? Cue failed FDA chemical pills causing death and disease.)
Jesus dies at 33, there are 33 spinal vertebre including the 24 major bones and the 9 smaller ones at the bottom of the spine that fuse into 2 during adolescence. You will therefore find this number to be 26 in many medical texts, though the original number is 33 before fusion.
There is so much more to learn, obviously I have only touched the surface of this topic with so many words, but if you want more I will not give it myself, rather please ask or PM me and I will direct you to appropriate sources where you can learn it yourself.
Thanks for reading.
Is "Thinking geocentrically" code for "smoking weed"?
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On October 11 2013 05:48 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 05:19 hp.Shell wrote:On October 10 2013 10:00 ninazerg wrote:On October 10 2013 09:51 Sermokala wrote:On October 10 2013 09:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2013 08:03 Sermokala wrote:If god created all the animals before making the humans that means that if humans evolved from Monkeys it is compliant with the creation of the universe story. boom evolution is now a pro god theory. YOUR MOVE SCIENCE. + Show Spoiler +I've been waiting for a suitable thread for this for a really long time. I'm going to assume sarcasm? That made no sense, both on the evolutionary explanation and on the Genesis order of Creation. You are wrong on both counts. God created adam right after creating the land animals. And evolution is about how humans evovled from animals. specificaly it says that he created plants then aquatic and airborne life then he said the land should produce and support life. All this works alongside evolution your move science. I just have to point this out, not to be mean or anything, but there's one thing that always bugs me about the order of creation in Genesis: Day 1: Light and Darkness Day 2: Earth's atmosphere Day 3: Land and Sea / vegetation Day 4: Stars <------------------------------------ wait what Day 5: Fish / Birds Day 6: Land animals / Humans Day 7: Rested Well when you read the Bible you have to read it from a Geocentric point of view, not a post-Heliocentric one as we have today. The stars were thought to exist in a sphere around the earth, in the same space as heaven and the angels. In this sense, creating the stars in a day is akin to creating the atmosphere in a day, because they were relatively similar sizes. Not only that, but god can do anything. On October 10 2013 07:22 Zetter wrote:Well, I'd go for "humans". On October 10 2013 06:56 hp.Shell wrote:
So my word to describe Christians would be
"Lazy"
and my word to describe Christianity would be
"Nonliteral"
I picked nonliteral because if you read the Bible the way it is supposed to be interpreted, you will understand that its story is mostly about the human body and the zodiac. So when I think of Christians, I think they are lazy because they have not made the effort to come to the conclusion that someone comes to after the correct interpretation of the Bible.
Edit: and by choosing Christianity for a religion, all Christians are lazy in that they have not interpreted their own religion to see it as a study of the human body and astrology, thereby bypassing Christianity in favor of something like astrotheology and/or holistic spirituality. Just my curiosity: Why is the bible supposed to be interpreted as a study of astrology and the human body? + Show Spoiler +
Back in the times before central heat and air, but after the Neolithic revolution in agriculture, the northern hemisphere was very cold in winter. Let's think Geocentrically, with the sun revolving around the earth as early Christians did. We know today that the transit of the sun across the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn creates the seasons, so the sun also creates winter. And so in the winter near the Capricornian solstice the sun's power wanes in the north and the sun-god can be thought of as evil or a devil, He who creates the cold and kills the weak and hungry. But when the sun begins to move back toward the north, he is reborn and his power grows, bringing new life and a new season of agriculture, providing food for everything on the earth.
Christianity comes from the word Christ. 'Christ' means 'light'. Light is what the Bible says god is. God is light. So the church of Christianity comes from the church of light. That's why the Pope carries the sun, also called the Monstrance. He goes around behind the sun.
Catholic means universal, universal means all-encompassing. If it's an all-encompassing church, this means it must not be biased towards one of those orbs, the first being the sun. So there are seven orbs, and they are the seven that the days of the week are named after. Sun = Sunday, Moon = Monday, Mars = Tiw (or Týr) = Tuesday, Mercury = Odin = Wodanaz = Wednesday, Jupiter = Thor = Thursday (also Guruvar = guru var || guru is the style for Brhaspati regent of Jupiter), Venus = Frigg = Frigedaeg = Friday, Saturn = Saturday.
If you care to look in the Bible, you will find reverence for all seven of these orbs. For example, Saints Peter and Paul are named after / have their names related to Jupiter and Apollo, who is associated with Mercury. As for the 12 apostles, they represent the 12 signs of the zodiac.
If you look at da Vinci's Last Supper, you will see Jesus, the sun, with his 12 apostles. The apostles are grouped in 3s, which may be of importance and it in fact represents the division of the signs among the four seasons.
The zodiac signs, from the beginning of spring to the end of winter, run as follows: Ares, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces.
The apostle Judas represents Scorpio, the scorpion, the back-biter, the treasonous. According to the Bible, Judas identified Jesus to the soldiers by means of a kiss. A scorpion bite looks like a red mark in the shape of lips, essentially a red dot with a red ring surrounding it, therefore Judas is Scorpio the scorpion, and his kiss the scorpion-bite.
Jesus is sitting between Virgo and Libra, on the transition from Summer to Autumn, when the sun begins to die. The last supper is a story that takes place just before the son Jesus dies on the cross (of the zodiac). The sun moves to the underworld, Autumn and Winter on the zodiac wheel, and is in the south, where the "land down under" Australia sits. Of course in the southern hemisphere the southern sun brings summer, but we are talking about the Roman church, and Rome and the old world that developed Christianity sits in the north, and so we have north = summer, south = winter.
The sun is the true savior of everything on earth, for without it we would all be dead from cold and starvation.
Unfortunately I have spent most of my time explaining the zodiac portion of Biblical teachings. However, the zodiac signs also describe the human body. Ares is the head, Taurus is the bottom of the head (cerebellum), Gemini is the arms, Cancer is the chest/breasts, Leo is the heart (Leo is called the lion-heart), Virgo is the belly or womb (where the woman grows during pregnancy), Libra are the kidneys, Scorpio is the genital region, Sagittarius is the hips, Capricorn is the knee-Caps, Aquarius are the shins, and Pisces, the two (Latin=) fish, represent the two feet (the pedites in Latin).
The seven chakras form the seven major colors of the visible light spectrum (the rainbow). When you go to the lower three chakras, you have red, orange and yellow. These are associated with hell. The green heart middle chakra is associated with the earth, and the top three blue indigo violet are associated with heaven, which is a word related to "head" and has similar origin.
This rising from the lower three towards the higher three has been called Jacob's Ladder, the Stairway to Heaven (think Led Zeppelin), and the Caduceus, which the sun-god Hermes carried. The Caduceus is the symbol of commerce, theft, deception and death, though it is also used in place of the similar Rod of Asclepius as a symbol for medicine. (Or perhaps it is simply used in the medical field as a symbol of deception and death? Cue failed FDA chemical pills causing death and disease.)
Jesus dies at 33, there are 33 spinal vertebre including the 24 major bones and the 9 smaller ones at the bottom of the spine that fuse into 2 during adolescence. You will therefore find this number to be 26 in many medical texts, though the original number is 33 before fusion.
There is so much more to learn, obviously I have only touched the surface of this topic with so many words, but if you want more I will not give it myself, rather please ask or PM me and I will direct you to appropriate sources where you can learn it yourself.
Thanks for reading.
Is "Thinking geocentrically" code for "smoking weed"?
Yes, yes it is. Smoking weed and eating chocolate cake. Yes, precious cake!
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On October 11 2013 01:48 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 01:42 woreyour wrote:On October 11 2013 01:34 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:29 woreyour wrote:On October 11 2013 01:15 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:11 woreyour wrote:On October 10 2013 21:38 MarlieChurphy wrote:I find op to be spot on and hilariously ironic. As for me, it would be pretty hard to choose one word to describe Christians, and don't be so contrived to think I have a different word for christians as I do for muslims or catholics or whatever. I'd use the same word. Probably something like nutjobs, idiots, ignorant, etc. yea this: On October 10 2013 02:23 Salv wrote:If I could use one word to describe the majority of Christians I would choose ignorant. I think there are far too many Christians who are unaware of: - Their own Bible.
- Evolution
- Abiogenesis
- Scientific theory
- Fallacies
That's not to suggest all Christians are like this though and as an atheist from a semi-religious family I understand where some people are coming from when describing their faith. I've actually been christian, catholic, mormon, baptist and been to other churches as well. My parents did a great job (unwittingly) making me understand that all these people are basically speaking the same crazy language but arguing semantics. It's all just nonsense. They should actually force kids in elemntary schools to be a different religion each year and it would produce a lot more intelligent athiests imho. I think it was Penn Jillette who said that when he read the bible it served as a catalyst to make him more atheist. I mean a lot of the stuff in there is on some fantasy fiction novel level. PS- Does anyone else think the semantic issue of being called 'athiest' versus 'an atheist' is an important distinction? 'An athiest' sort of implies you practice some anti religion rules or go to athiest group meetings. 'Atheist' is just like nobody knows or will know so idgaf. So like if someone asks you like; "What church do you go to?", you would reply with "I'm atheist." and leave it at that. Where as an atheist would be more sort of militant about it and say something like; "I'm an atheist, you believe in that crap?" they have this new term, "Religious Activist" or "Anti-Theist" for that I think. Yeah I am becoming one of those guys coming from just not believing in "god". I really think it is time we inform and push back as some people are just guillible and they need some people to explain or reason out with them to really make them realize for themselves. Please enlighten us all with your logical proof that there is not a god. You can't "inform" people about something for which no conclusions can be drawn from the evidence that we have well lucky me, for a few seconds I snag a believer  Alright, here we go! As I atheist, the burden of proof is not with me as I am not claiming somthing. I just dont believe in a "god". So tell me what is your proof or claim and it would be my pleasure to enlighten you. Shall we dance? No, because I'm not a believer myself. I just get annoyed that atheists don't understand the concept of faith. Christianity doesn't endeavor to prove to you that god exists, instead it asks you to believe particularly in spite of lack if evidence (see doubting Thomas). The burden of proof is on you because you are the one that wants proof. lol I was not asking proof, I am asking you why do you think there is a god. And for that you should have some claim or proof. And with that I will be "informing" you why I think it is not the case. And with reason, maybe or probably the person can realize how faulty his claim or proof is. The concept of faith comes from that believing from something without logical reason which is plainly wrong. I don't need to understand "faith" because it comes from a faulty logic at the 1st place. You are confusing empirics and logic. Believing something where there is no evidence is faith. Because the nature of god means that there can be no evidence for (or against) it's existence, empirical analysis can come to no conclusion. Therefore in absence of a logical proof that such an entity must not exust, there is no reason why faith is illogical. To answer "why do you believe in god" I think the christian response would be that they were asked to believe and it felt right to do so
I very much doubt that any significant portion of people who identify as Christian are agnostic theists like you are claiming. If there is some sect of deists who for some bizarre reason choose to call themselves christian out there that you are referring to(and with 22,000+ christian faiths, who knows) then go ahead. Congratulations, but you have made a meaningless claim.
However, if we are actually going to talk about what 99.9% of Christians believe, then we have a god that Christians claim manifests in reality, and we then have a claim that can be empirically tested. Either you are not talking the Christian God, or Christianity bares the burden of proof.
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Given that 75% of people in the US identify as christians, I'm a little suspicious of your speaker's results.
Maybe 'liars' would have been a better choice
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On October 11 2013 05:19 hp.Shell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 10:00 ninazerg wrote:On October 10 2013 09:51 Sermokala wrote:On October 10 2013 09:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On October 10 2013 08:03 Sermokala wrote:If god created all the animals before making the humans that means that if humans evolved from Monkeys it is compliant with the creation of the universe story. boom evolution is now a pro god theory. YOUR MOVE SCIENCE. + Show Spoiler +I've been waiting for a suitable thread for this for a really long time. I'm going to assume sarcasm? That made no sense, both on the evolutionary explanation and on the Genesis order of Creation. You are wrong on both counts. God created adam right after creating the land animals. And evolution is about how humans evovled from animals. specificaly it says that he created plants then aquatic and airborne life then he said the land should produce and support life. All this works alongside evolution your move science. I just have to point this out, not to be mean or anything, but there's one thing that always bugs me about the order of creation in Genesis: Day 1: Light and Darkness Day 2: Earth's atmosphere Day 3: Land and Sea / vegetation Day 4: Stars <------------------------------------ wait what Day 5: Fish / Birds Day 6: Land animals / Humans Day 7: Rested Well when you read the Bible you have to read it from a Geocentric point of view, not a post-Heliocentric one as we have today. The stars were thought to exist in a sphere around the earth, in the same space as heaven and the angels. In this sense, creating the stars in a day is akin to creating the atmosphere in a day, because they were relatively similar sizes. Not only that, but god can do anything. Show nested quote +On October 10 2013 07:22 Zetter wrote:Well, I'd go for "humans". On October 10 2013 06:56 hp.Shell wrote:
So my word to describe Christians would be
"Lazy"
and my word to describe Christianity would be
"Nonliteral"
I picked nonliteral because if you read the Bible the way it is supposed to be interpreted, you will understand that its story is mostly about the human body and the zodiac. So when I think of Christians, I think they are lazy because they have not made the effort to come to the conclusion that someone comes to after the correct interpretation of the Bible.
Edit: and by choosing Christianity for a religion, all Christians are lazy in that they have not interpreted their own religion to see it as a study of the human body and astrology, thereby bypassing Christianity in favor of something like astrotheology and/or holistic spirituality. Just my curiosity: Why is the bible supposed to be interpreted as a study of astrology and the human body? Back in the times before central heat and air, but after the Neolithic revolution in agriculture, the northern hemisphere was very cold in winter. Let's think Geocentrically, with the sun revolving around the earth as early Christians did. We know today that the transit of the sun across the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn creates the seasons, so the sun also creates winter. And so in the winter near the Capricornian solstice the sun's power wanes in the north and the sun-god can be thought of as evil or a devil, He who creates the cold and kills the weak and hungry. But when the sun begins to move back toward the north, he is reborn and his power grows, bringing new life and a new season of agriculture, providing food for everything on the earth. Christianity comes from the word Christ. 'Christ' means 'light'. Light is what the Bible says god is. God is light. So the church of Christianity comes from the church of light. That's why the Pope carries the sun, also called the Monstrance. He goes around behind the sun. Catholic means universal, universal means all-encompassing. If it's an all-encompassing church, this means it must not be biased towards one of those orbs, the first being the sun. So there are seven orbs, and they are the seven that the days of the week are named after. Sun = Sunday, Moon = Monday, Mars = Tiw (or Týr) = Tuesday, Mercury = Odin = Wodanaz = Wednesday, Jupiter = Thor = Thursday (also Guruvar = guru var || guru is the style for Brhaspati regent of Jupiter), Venus = Frigg = Frigedaeg = Friday, Saturn = Saturday. If you care to look in the Bible, you will find reverence for all seven of these orbs. For example, Saints Peter and Paul are named after / have their names related to Jupiter and Apollo, who is associated with Mercury. As for the 12 apostles, they represent the 12 signs of the zodiac. If you look at da Vinci's Last Supper, you will see Jesus, the sun, with his 12 apostles. The apostles are grouped in 3s, which may be of importance and it in fact represents the division of the signs among the four seasons. The zodiac signs, from the beginning of spring to the end of winter, run as follows: Ares, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, and Pisces. The apostle Judas represents Scorpio, the scorpion, the back-biter, the treasonous. According to the Bible, Judas identified Jesus to the soldiers by means of a kiss. A scorpion bite looks like a red mark in the shape of lips, essentially a red dot with a red ring surrounding it, therefore Judas is Scorpio the scorpion, and his kiss the scorpion-bite. Jesus is sitting between Virgo and Libra, on the transition from Summer to Autumn, when the sun begins to die. The last supper is a story that takes place just before the son Jesus dies on the cross (of the zodiac). The sun moves to the underworld, Autumn and Winter on the zodiac wheel, and is in the south, where the "land down under" Australia sits. Of course in the southern hemisphere the southern sun brings summer, but we are talking about the Roman church, and Rome and the old world that developed Christianity sits in the north, and so we have north = summer, south = winter. The sun is the true savior of everything on earth, for without it we would all be dead from cold and starvation. Unfortunately I have spent most of my time explaining the zodiac portion of Biblical teachings. However, the zodiac signs also describe the human body. Ares is the head, Taurus is the bottom of the head (cerebellum), Gemini is the arms, Cancer is the chest/breasts, Leo is the heart (Leo is called the lion-heart), Virgo is the belly or womb (where the woman grows during pregnancy), Libra are the kidneys, Scorpio is the genital region, Sagittarius is the hips, Capricorn is the knee-Caps, Aquarius are the shins, and Pisces, the two (Latin=) fish, represent the two feet (the pedites in Latin). The seven chakras form the seven major colors of the visible light spectrum (the rainbow). When you go to the lower three chakras, you have red, orange and yellow. These are associated with hell. The green heart middle chakra is associated with the earth, and the top three blue indigo violet are associated with heaven, which is a word related to "head" and has similar origin. This rising from the lower three towards the higher three has been called Jacob's Ladder, the Stairway to Heaven (think Led Zeppelin), and the Caduceus, which the sun-god Hermes carried. The Caduceus is the symbol of commerce, theft, deception and death, though it is also used in place of the similar Rod of Asclepius as a symbol for medicine. (Or perhaps it is simply used in the medical field as a symbol of deception and death? Cue failed FDA chemical pills causing death and disease.) Jesus dies at 33, there are 33 spinal vertebre including the 24 major bones and the 9 smaller ones at the bottom of the spine that fuse into 2 during adolescence. You will therefore find this number to be 26 in many medical texts, though the original number is 33 before fusion. There is so much more to learn, obviously I have only touched the surface of this topic with so many words, but if you want more I will not give it myself, rather please ask or PM me and I will direct you to appropriate sources where you can learn it yourself. Thanks for reading.
Thanks for the explanation, though I'm not interested enough in that subject to dig deeper about this. =D
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On October 11 2013 01:15 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 01:11 woreyour wrote:On October 10 2013 21:38 MarlieChurphy wrote:I find op to be spot on and hilariously ironic. As for me, it would be pretty hard to choose one word to describe Christians, and don't be so contrived to think I have a different word for christians as I do for muslims or catholics or whatever. I'd use the same word. Probably something like nutjobs, idiots, ignorant, etc. yea this: On October 10 2013 02:23 Salv wrote:If I could use one word to describe the majority of Christians I would choose ignorant. I think there are far too many Christians who are unaware of: - Their own Bible.
- Evolution
- Abiogenesis
- Scientific theory
- Fallacies
That's not to suggest all Christians are like this though and as an atheist from a semi-religious family I understand where some people are coming from when describing their faith. I've actually been christian, catholic, mormon, baptist and been to other churches as well. My parents did a great job (unwittingly) making me understand that all these people are basically speaking the same crazy language but arguing semantics. It's all just nonsense. They should actually force kids in elemntary schools to be a different religion each year and it would produce a lot more intelligent athiests imho. I think it was Penn Jillette who said that when he read the bible it served as a catalyst to make him more atheist. I mean a lot of the stuff in there is on some fantasy fiction novel level. PS- Does anyone else think the semantic issue of being called 'athiest' versus 'an atheist' is an important distinction? 'An athiest' sort of implies you practice some anti religion rules or go to athiest group meetings. 'Atheist' is just like nobody knows or will know so idgaf. So like if someone asks you like; "What church do you go to?", you would reply with "I'm atheist." and leave it at that. Where as an atheist would be more sort of militant about it and say something like; "I'm an atheist, you believe in that crap?" they have this new term, "Religious Activist" or "Anti-Theist" for that I think. Yeah I am becoming one of those guys coming from just not believing in "god". I really think it is time we inform and push back as some people are just guillible and they need some people to explain or reason out with them to really make them realize for themselves. Please enlighten us all with your logical proof that there is not a god. You can't "inform" people about something for which no conclusions can be drawn from the evidence that we have
I think he means informing people that there is no evidence for any religion, and therefor no more reason to believe in any of them, than lepricons, santa claus, or other silly nonsense.
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On October 11 2013 06:31 Myrkskog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 01:48 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:42 woreyour wrote:On October 11 2013 01:34 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:29 woreyour wrote:On October 11 2013 01:15 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:11 woreyour wrote:On October 10 2013 21:38 MarlieChurphy wrote:I find op to be spot on and hilariously ironic. As for me, it would be pretty hard to choose one word to describe Christians, and don't be so contrived to think I have a different word for christians as I do for muslims or catholics or whatever. I'd use the same word. Probably something like nutjobs, idiots, ignorant, etc. yea this: On October 10 2013 02:23 Salv wrote:If I could use one word to describe the majority of Christians I would choose ignorant. I think there are far too many Christians who are unaware of: - Their own Bible.
- Evolution
- Abiogenesis
- Scientific theory
- Fallacies
That's not to suggest all Christians are like this though and as an atheist from a semi-religious family I understand where some people are coming from when describing their faith. I've actually been christian, catholic, mormon, baptist and been to other churches as well. My parents did a great job (unwittingly) making me understand that all these people are basically speaking the same crazy language but arguing semantics. It's all just nonsense. They should actually force kids in elemntary schools to be a different religion each year and it would produce a lot more intelligent athiests imho. I think it was Penn Jillette who said that when he read the bible it served as a catalyst to make him more atheist. I mean a lot of the stuff in there is on some fantasy fiction novel level. PS- Does anyone else think the semantic issue of being called 'athiest' versus 'an atheist' is an important distinction? 'An athiest' sort of implies you practice some anti religion rules or go to athiest group meetings. 'Atheist' is just like nobody knows or will know so idgaf. So like if someone asks you like; "What church do you go to?", you would reply with "I'm atheist." and leave it at that. Where as an atheist would be more sort of militant about it and say something like; "I'm an atheist, you believe in that crap?" they have this new term, "Religious Activist" or "Anti-Theist" for that I think. Yeah I am becoming one of those guys coming from just not believing in "god". I really think it is time we inform and push back as some people are just guillible and they need some people to explain or reason out with them to really make them realize for themselves. Please enlighten us all with your logical proof that there is not a god. You can't "inform" people about something for which no conclusions can be drawn from the evidence that we have well lucky me, for a few seconds I snag a believer Alright, here we go! As I atheist, the burden of proof is not with me as I am not claiming somthing. I just dont believe in a "god". So tell me what is your proof or claim and it would be my pleasure to enlighten you. Shall we dance? No, because I'm not a believer myself. I just get annoyed that atheists don't understand the concept of faith. Christianity doesn't endeavor to prove to you that god exists, instead it asks you to believe particularly in spite of lack if evidence (see doubting Thomas). The burden of proof is on you because you are the one that wants proof. lol I was not asking proof, I am asking you why do you think there is a god. And for that you should have some claim or proof. And with that I will be "informing" you why I think it is not the case. And with reason, maybe or probably the person can realize how faulty his claim or proof is. The concept of faith comes from that believing from something without logical reason which is plainly wrong. I don't need to understand "faith" because it comes from a faulty logic at the 1st place. You are confusing empirics and logic. Believing something where there is no evidence is faith. Because the nature of god means that there can be no evidence for (or against) it's existence, empirical analysis can come to no conclusion. Therefore in absence of a logical proof that such an entity must not exust, there is no reason why faith is illogical. To answer "why do you believe in god" I think the christian response would be that they were asked to believe and it felt right to do so I very much doubt that any significant portion of people who identify as Christian are agnostic theists like you are claiming. If there is some sect of deists who for some bizarre reason choose to call themselves christian out there that you are referring to(and with 22,000+ christian faiths, who knows) then go ahead. Congratulations, but you have made a meaningless claim. However, if we are actually going to talk about what 99.9% of Christians believe, then we have a god that Christians claim manifests in reality, and we then have a claim that can be empirically tested. Either you are not talking the Christian God, or Christianity bares the burden of proof.
Yeah but in the gospels Jesus is talking to the devil and the devil says "jump off the cliff god will save you" but Jesus responds" No way bro, god shall not be tested". Its not faithful to try and prove god!
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On October 11 2013 09:30 Awesomedrifter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2013 06:31 Myrkskog wrote:On October 11 2013 01:48 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:42 woreyour wrote:On October 11 2013 01:34 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:29 woreyour wrote:On October 11 2013 01:15 packrat386 wrote:On October 11 2013 01:11 woreyour wrote:On October 10 2013 21:38 MarlieChurphy wrote:I find op to be spot on and hilariously ironic. As for me, it would be pretty hard to choose one word to describe Christians, and don't be so contrived to think I have a different word for christians as I do for muslims or catholics or whatever. I'd use the same word. Probably something like nutjobs, idiots, ignorant, etc. yea this: On October 10 2013 02:23 Salv wrote:If I could use one word to describe the majority of Christians I would choose ignorant. I think there are far too many Christians who are unaware of: - Their own Bible.
- Evolution
- Abiogenesis
- Scientific theory
- Fallacies
That's not to suggest all Christians are like this though and as an atheist from a semi-religious family I understand where some people are coming from when describing their faith. I've actually been christian, catholic, mormon, baptist and been to other churches as well. My parents did a great job (unwittingly) making me understand that all these people are basically speaking the same crazy language but arguing semantics. It's all just nonsense. They should actually force kids in elemntary schools to be a different religion each year and it would produce a lot more intelligent athiests imho. I think it was Penn Jillette who said that when he read the bible it served as a catalyst to make him more atheist. I mean a lot of the stuff in there is on some fantasy fiction novel level. PS- Does anyone else think the semantic issue of being called 'athiest' versus 'an atheist' is an important distinction? 'An athiest' sort of implies you practice some anti religion rules or go to athiest group meetings. 'Atheist' is just like nobody knows or will know so idgaf. So like if someone asks you like; "What church do you go to?", you would reply with "I'm atheist." and leave it at that. Where as an atheist would be more sort of militant about it and say something like; "I'm an atheist, you believe in that crap?" they have this new term, "Religious Activist" or "Anti-Theist" for that I think. Yeah I am becoming one of those guys coming from just not believing in "god". I really think it is time we inform and push back as some people are just guillible and they need some people to explain or reason out with them to really make them realize for themselves. Please enlighten us all with your logical proof that there is not a god. You can't "inform" people about something for which no conclusions can be drawn from the evidence that we have well lucky me, for a few seconds I snag a believer Alright, here we go! As I atheist, the burden of proof is not with me as I am not claiming somthing. I just dont believe in a "god". So tell me what is your proof or claim and it would be my pleasure to enlighten you. Shall we dance? No, because I'm not a believer myself. I just get annoyed that atheists don't understand the concept of faith. Christianity doesn't endeavor to prove to you that god exists, instead it asks you to believe particularly in spite of lack if evidence (see doubting Thomas). The burden of proof is on you because you are the one that wants proof. lol I was not asking proof, I am asking you why do you think there is a god. And for that you should have some claim or proof. And with that I will be "informing" you why I think it is not the case. And with reason, maybe or probably the person can realize how faulty his claim or proof is. The concept of faith comes from that believing from something without logical reason which is plainly wrong. I don't need to understand "faith" because it comes from a faulty logic at the 1st place. You are confusing empirics and logic. Believing something where there is no evidence is faith. Because the nature of god means that there can be no evidence for (or against) it's existence, empirical analysis can come to no conclusion. Therefore in absence of a logical proof that such an entity must not exust, there is no reason why faith is illogical. To answer "why do you believe in god" I think the christian response would be that they were asked to believe and it felt right to do so I very much doubt that any significant portion of people who identify as Christian are agnostic theists like you are claiming. If there is some sect of deists who for some bizarre reason choose to call themselves christian out there that you are referring to(and with 22,000+ christian faiths, who knows) then go ahead. Congratulations, but you have made a meaningless claim. However, if we are actually going to talk about what 99.9% of Christians believe, then we have a god that Christians claim manifests in reality, and we then have a claim that can be empirically tested. Either you are not talking the Christian God, or Christianity bares the burden of proof. Yeah but in the gospels Jesus is talking to the devil and the devil says "jump off the cliff god will save you" but Jesus responds" No way bro, god shall not be tested". Its not faithful to try and prove god!
How convenient!
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On October 10 2013 00:49 PaqMan wrote:
And so I come to TL and ask all of you, if you could use any one word to describe Christians, what word would you use?
Describe christians or christianity?
Christians: Sheeple
Christianity: Unnecessary
Christians are people who can't make up their own mind, or have been brainwashed and lost that ability in the process.
Christianity at its foundation is, just like every other religion a guide on how to live your life. Smart people don't need a guide.
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Nah, smart people are the ones' willing to admit that they use a guide everyday of their lives.
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On October 14 2013 02:54 farvacola wrote:
Nah, smart people are the ones' willing to admit that they use a guide everyday of their lives.
lol that's precious... whatever you mean by guide, yours appears to be very clumsy.
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Better clumsy than blind or unwilling to acknowledge.
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On October 14 2013 03:19 farvacola wrote:
Better clumsy than blind or unwilling to acknowledge.
I could say the same thing about you. You are blind to a reality that you tint with your imagination, and you're unwilling to acknowledge that your senses have failed you. But that would be confirmation bias .
Consistent in your cheap arguments, farva. Guess that's why you didn't even tackle my response from a few days ago. Can't be bothered to ever make an effort when you can just dismiss everything by insinuating that others are stupid. So lazy.
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But I've said nothing of my beliefs nor of my idea of reality. I can only assume that you are reading things into my defense of Christianity that are not really there. Then again, that strategy seems rather popular these days. Besides, reality cannot exist in the human mind untinted by imagination.
I did not reply to your previous post because it was not worth replying to. Lazy would something like forgetting punctuation or the like.
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On October 14 2013 03:35 farvacola wrote:
But I've said nothing of my beliefs nor of my idea of reality. I can only assume that you are reading things into my defense of Christianity that are not really there. Then again, that strategy seems rather popular these days. Besides, reality cannot exist in the human mind untinted by imagination.
I did not reply to your previous post because it was not worth replying to. Lazy would something like forgetting punctuation or the like.
In the first part, you argue that I'm making assumptions, but the thing is I'm forced to because you intentionally write minimalist BS to avoid being cornered. You're essentially saying that smart people recognize that we need a guide. I'm willing to accept that maybe I didn't interpret what you mean by that properly. If I were to ask you to elaborate on what you meant, you'd probably give me some cheap answer again. So what did you mean? Tell us about you - why do you think smart people are aware that they "need a guide"? No need to continue hiding, everybody knows what you are (at least in general).
As for the second part, you're lying and it's part of your bullshit persona of trash posts and trash arguments. So fine. I'm pretty sure everybody knows anyway. It's an interesting little show you're running for yourself.
Part of me is getting frustrated with you because you probably don't even realize how cheap and ridiculous you are. You dismiss everything with the back of your hand and I'm convinced that there's some kind of psychological mechanism in your head that makes you not even realize how dishonest you are and it feeds that weak little ego of yours and makes you feel like you're actually doing this like a respectable person.
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EPT
