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I've been reading on TL and Reddit how SC2 is in the position where it should have downsized to become sustainable over the long term. I disagree with this whole-heartedly, because SC2 had the opportunity of actually becoming bigger than Brood War ever was in Korea, but as circumstances showed, Blizzard blew it with a game that did not have the same depth that the Korean public expected from a game of the pedigree, along with marketing and legal mis-steps (which I'm sure long-time scene followers are keenly aware of), that meant government and corporate support was not smoothly transitioned over.
Now what does all this have to do with Brood War? With the new fiscal year, we've seen a rash of retirements and consolidation in the SC2 scene, with rumors floating that Korea's Starcraft Proleague is on its last legs. Many retiring players, who have been released from their SC2 obligations, are now free to return to the game that they grew up playing, and where they were good enough to become professionals. With them, especially for stars like Jangbi and reportedly Bisu, will probably go a lot of fans who will watch their performances in and out of Brood War. These people are essentially a captive audience, and even casual fans who may hear of the greats in passing would probably be interested in seeing them play once again the game where they made their mark.
With these players coming back to the BW fold, it is a great opportunity for the community to make their presence known, especially in Korea. The audience for the games are still there, and it is only a matter of making their presence known to entities that may still be interested in promoting their wares to them that stops tournaments from becoming larger. Of course, there is still the specter of Blizzard's interference and restrictive policies that may put a damper on all this, but the precedent is there for non-interference, and it is only a matter of pressuring a change of policy before we see old legends on a big stage once again.
 
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Bisutopia19368 Posts
On September 01 2013 13:59 likeasu wrote:
jangbi is coming BACK! =)
Project twit:
"Jangbi is joining to SOSPA, he will be play on SSL very soon! It is very likely Bisu will do the same!!!"
WOW!! Its GREAT!
If this is true then I'm already satisfied. I just want the dragons to come home.
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It may develop into something like the War3 scene in China right now if it plays out correctly with the community and the sponsors, with a pretty decent number of different small cups and then every once in a while a LAN event with a small prize pool. (Nothing to scoff at, but nothing too huge.) If there are more people willing to sponsor tournaments out of their own pockets, that would also be a good start, I think. Also, some variety injected into the scene with 2v2 leagues & PL-style clan/team leagues would not hurt. (Just throwing out some things I've seen going on in China's smaller War3 scene every once in a while. Professional 2v2s are surprisingly popular these days, but I don't know how BW 2v2 would work or if it's worth trying.)
Unfortunately at some point skill level will stagnate hard and start dropping, but that's inevitable given players will be part-time.
As you say, most of it will depend on the community. I'm not a BW fan, but I empathize with you guys re: the situation. You guys are doing well with SOSPA though, so there is already that. 
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Here's how I feel about this, and I have a very strong opinion: I believe that almost anyone who has enjoyed StarCraft: BroodWar will prefer BroodWar over SC2.
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Next OSL is Bisu's OSL.
I mean SSL.
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Canada1256 Posts
Nothing bad can come from this, either BW comes back and stays strong or Blizzard fixes Sc2 to be more fun than BW. Either option is good.
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If Bisu comes back to BW, I might just start watching again.
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What if SC2 has nothing to do with this ? What if KeSPA BW was dying a painful death and the transition just allowed sponsors to get off the boat without having to withstand a media backlash ? What if the public shifted from RTS to ARTS and thus shrinking the sponsoring ?
So much possibilities but I guess it's better to bask in a game's former glory ! Nice circlejerk !
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So many possibilities, but some are just more likely (and more apparent) than others.
Brood War would be perfectly fine coexisting with League of Legends, if Kespa hadn't taken all the BW-side teams and players over to another game.
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Don't want to categorize the top players retirement as resurgence more like the players for example Jangbi, (maybe)Bisu didn't like playing sc2 because they can't do much in it . Although for us bw loving fans this would definitely be ideal so we can watch the pass greats play broodwar and enjoy it . I still think it's too far for a renaissance or resurgence more like a small win for what we have lost from the switch of broodwar to sc2.
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mmmh theres a lot of talk going around this seems like a good space to vent my opinion out there:
When sc2 came to be, my first thought was hey, if they want to make more money let them make more money. They created this awesome game. After you create a masterpiece, some years later the same people try to create another masterpiece. Obviously you are going to fail, if your objective is to re-create a simple replica of the previous. You are going to fail because, you are not after the same goals. You are not after the same momentum. You are not working with the same people in the same envirement. Now, what Blizzard was after when creating sc2, was quantity, not quality. How can we make a game where everyone can play it easily, while having the same, maybe bigger and stronger Pro league open to Europeans and Americans.
The reasons of the fail is that, the more popular something the more simple something.
This doesn' t mean simple=wrong. It means simple for the pursue of simple is wrong. Simple for the pourpase of balance is right.
To get to the point, I don' t understand why all this talk about all this. People have this great idea that PL is going to come back in one way or another. Really, it doesn' t matter if it does. Broodwar is such a great game, and the past 2 years have shown that no matter what people continue to play it. Same has been for chess over the years. When you consider people taking personal time and money (Sonic and Snipealot and many other people) , to give with no money in return, that is true passion. And the passion is there because the game is great, and it creates a strong legacy, one that money can' t buy.
If something bigger than SOSPA is going to happen, then it will happen. If it is not, then not. It doesn' t really matter, because the passion is already there. I don' t think people should get there hopes up for nothing. Instead try and realize this and contribuite in some way to that passion, wheter it be time, money, or will.
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On September 01 2013 16:29 ninazerg wrote:
Here's how I feel about this, and I have a very strong opinion: I believe that almost anyone who has enjoyed StarCraft: BroodWar will prefer BroodWar over SC2.
I've been playing BW since 2000, but I have to say I'm liking SC2 more and more, and I've like it more than Brood War for a while now.
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On September 01 2013 21:25 Otolia wrote:2010 : 3 OSL, 3 MSL 2011 : 1 OSL, 1 MSL 2012 : 1 OSL Google Trends for LoLFor StarcraftFor Starcraft 2There isn't a lot of room for interpretation here. BW was contracting, SC2 never really took off while LoL exploded.
Now compare them Combined.
Starcraft seems far more popular than LoL, just, not anymore ):
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On September 01 2013 19:41 Otolia wrote: What if SC2 has nothing to do with this ? What if KeSPA BW was dying a painful death and the transition just allowed sponsors to get off the boat without having to withstand a media backlash ? What if the public shifted from RTS to ARTS and thus shrinking the sponsoring ? So much possibilities but I guess it's better to bask in a game's former glory ! Nice circlejerk !
I think that it's wrong to have a presumption that BW needs to go back to 2004-2005 levels to stay respectable. Even if one doesn't set aside the fact that SC2 is still running along nicely with multiple teams from both the old BW infrastructure and new entrants, BW is still just marching on with an audience. With the return of some old players, more casual, older fans would be likely to watch again. Take the lack of criticism on SC2 as you will.
On September 01 2013 21:25 Otolia wrote:2010 : 3 OSL, 3 MSL 2011 : 1 OSL, 1 MSL 2012 : 1 OSL Google Trends for LoLFor StarcraftFor Starcraft 2There isn't a lot of room for interpretation here. BW was contracting, SC2 never really took off while LoL exploded.
There is quite some information you can get from those graphs, when you consider the following:
Google Trends for LoL, SC and SC2 from Nov 2008-Aug 2013
There was a LOT of interest in SC2, especially during its launch, and also in BW as well by mere association. Searches for all three games probably won't ever reach the peaks that it had with the WoL announcement and its launch.
Release Date of League of Legends: October 27, 2009
Release Date of Starcraft 2: July 27, 2010
Google Trends for LoL, SC and SC2 from Nov 2010-Aug 2013
However, after WoL launched, something happened with the interest in Starcraft 2, when you reasonably expect interest to hold steady post launch. League never had a spike of interest, just a slow crawl upward; the peak for Starcraft 2 seen here was during the week of the HotS launch.
BW was bound to be always just in the background, as most people would know of it by word of mouth or would have more specific search terms if they wanted to look for info about it.
On the other point, why highlight the OSL/MSL volume, when it is known that post 2010, BW Starleagues had the specter of the SC2 transition hanging over them, (2 OSLs, 1 BW and 1 SC2 in 2012), as well as MBC closing because K-Pop drew more young viewers than games.
In any case, BW just wants to be let be; you don't see Valve with DotA 2 forcing anyone who wants to continue with DotA 1 tournaments to desist, do you?
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On September 01 2013 23:14 Ciryandor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 19:41 Otolia wrote: What if SC2 has nothing to do with this ? What if KeSPA BW was dying a painful death and the transition just allowed sponsors to get off the boat without having to withstand a media backlash ? What if the public shifted from RTS to ARTS and thus shrinking the sponsoring ? So much possibilities but I guess it's better to bask in a game's former glory ! Nice circlejerk ! I think that it's wrong to have a presumption that BW needs to go back to 2004-2005 levels to stay respectable. Even if one doesn't set aside the fact that SC2 is still running along nicely with multiple teams from both the old BW infrastructure and new entrants, BW is still just marching on with an audience. With the return of some old players, more casual, older fans would be likely to watch again. Take the lack of criticism on SC2 as you will. There is quite some information you can get from those graphs, when you consider the following: Google Trends for LoL, SC and SC2 from Nov 2008-Aug 2013There was a LOT of interest in SC2, especially during its launch, and also in BW as well by mere association. Searches for all three games probably won't ever reach the peaks that it had with the WoL announcement and its launch. Release Date of League of Legends: October 27, 2009Release Date of Starcraft 2: July 27, 2010Google Trends for LoL, SC and SC2 from Nov 2010-Aug 2013However, after WoL launched, something happened with the interest in Starcraft 2, when you reasonably expect interest to hold steady post launch. League never had a spike of interest, just a slow crawl upward; the peak for Starcraft 2 seen here was during the week of the HotS launch. BW was bound to be always just in the background, as most people would know of it by word of mouth or would have more specific search terms if they wanted to look for info about it. On the other point, why highlight the OSL/MSL volume, when it is known that post 2010, BW Starleagues had the specter of the SC2 transition hanging over them, (2 OSLs, 1 BW and 1 SC2 in 2012), as well as MBC closing because K-Pop drew more young viewers than games. In any case, BW just wants to be let be; you don't see Valve with DotA 2 forcing anyone who wants to continue with DotA 1 tournaments to desist, do you?
Koreans search stuff in Korean, so if you put those terms in Korean, you can see the picture more accurately.
Google Trends for LoL, Starcraft, and Dota2 from Jan 2008-Present in Korea
Blue line = Starcraft 2
Green line = SC2 (acronym/shorthand)
Red line = League of Legends
Beige line = LoL (acronym/shorthand)
Purple line = Dota2
If you want to replace Dota2 with BW, just put in 스타1.
One interesting thing: As LoL became more popular in Korea, the shorthand term steadily rose in usage.
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On September 01 2013 23:14 Ciryandor wrote:
In any case, BW just wants to be let be; you don't see Valve with DotA 2 forcing anyone who wants to continue with DotA 1 tournaments to desist, do you?
I personally find it wonderful that there is still a semi-pro scene in Korea. I was for a long time a rower at a national-level so I have a soft spot for initiative like the SSL. However the resurgent bitterness exposed on TL is totally misplaced.
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On September 02 2013 01:03 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 23:14 Ciryandor wrote:
In any case, BW just wants to be let be; you don't see Valve with DotA 2 forcing anyone who wants to continue with DotA 1 tournaments to desist, do you? I personally find it wonderful that there is still a semi-pro scene in Korea. I was for a long time a rower at a national-level so I have a soft spot for initiative like the SSL. However the resurgent bitterness exposed on TL is totally misplaced.
Another rower. I wonder if I competed against you on the National stage. What year/weight class/category did you row in?
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On September 01 2013 19:41 Otolia wrote: What if SC2 has nothing to do with this ? What if KeSPA BW was dying a painful death and the transition just allowed sponsors to get off the boat without having to withstand a media backlash ? What if the public shifted from RTS to ARTS and thus shrinking the sponsoring ? So much possibilities but I guess it's better to bask in a game's former glory ! Nice circlejerk !
It has everything to do with it. You act like the "transition" just naturally occurred due to changing fan attitudes. If you were around to witness it you would know that it was an aggressive campaign with relentless hype and marketing. Anyone who was in a position to make money suddenly acted like BW never existed and hyped SC2 like hell.
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On September 01 2013 22:31 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 16:29 ninazerg wrote:
Here's how I feel about this, and I have a very strong opinion: I believe that almost anyone who has enjoyed StarCraft: BroodWar will prefer BroodWar over SC2. I've been playing BW since 2000, but I have to say I'm liking SC2 more and more, and I've like it more than Brood War for a while now.
been disliking SC2 more and more as its flaws as a esports spectator game become more glaring over time
still watch SC2 events but no where near as fervently
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On September 02 2013 01:33 Mothra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2013 19:41 Otolia wrote: What if SC2 has nothing to do with this ? What if KeSPA BW was dying a painful death and the transition just allowed sponsors to get off the boat without having to withstand a media backlash ? What if the public shifted from RTS to ARTS and thus shrinking the sponsoring ? So much possibilities but I guess it's better to bask in a game's former glory ! Nice circlejerk ! It has everything to do with it. You act like the "transition" just naturally occurred due to changing fan attitudes. If you were around to witness it you would know that it was an aggressive campaign with relentless hype and marketing. Anyone who was in a position to make money suddenly acted like BW never existed and hyped SC2 like hell.
Remember that article on Jamsil Stadium that it was filling up before the frankenstein that was the hybrid PL and Kespa is thinking of building a stadium because of it.
Then the hybrid PL came, people still showed up but there were people LEAVING after the BW sequence was over.
And the next season with full SC2, there was barely 20 to 30 guys in the stands. They had to move the stage into the PC bang that Courage Tournaments and OSL preliminaries took place that can barely fit 50 people in. And oh! They played the PL PLAYOFFS there too instead of the bigger stadium....
Remember the cheer from the crowd when JangBi defeated ZerO? Yeah that's not replicable anymore on TV but on Afreeca on the other hand...a whole different story.
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I feel like the player base is still there (albeit still waaay smaller than LoL). Fish peaked at 17k last night, which is pretty good I think considering all thats happened in the past few years. I hope BW can come back and be big once again. There really is nothing like it  .
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I'm already going back. Can't stand playing SC2 anymore as a terran player and watching it is boring me to death. Long live BW and SOSPA.
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I dunno, the crowds for the SSL were decent but not at all comparable to what they used to be. I guess BW is still more popular than SC2 in Korea but that's not saying much.
The only way I could see BW make a resurgence is if Blizzard is forced to sell off the rights to a company like Valve or Riot, but that will never happen as long as the WoW money keeps rolling in.
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On September 02 2013 07:40 iamho wrote:
I dunno, the crowds for the SSL were decent but not at all comparable to what they used to be. I guess BW is still more popular than SC2 in Korea but that's not saying much.
The only way I could see BW make a resurgence is if Blizzard is forced to sell off the rights to a company like Valve or Riot, but that will never happen as long as the WoW money keeps rolling in.
Of course it's not going to be like an OSL crowd, there's no TV publicity, but when you think about it, that crowd was all drawn from internet and social media publicity, so it's a great base to build on.
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If you consider the fact that it's a 15 year old game with a scene that was at one point reduced to only a couple of ex-progamer streamers, then SSL having come so far to have sponsored events with decent prize pools and live audience is nothing short of amazing.
It shows there's a lot of genuine vitality in the scene and that it wasn't only being kept alive by corporate sponsorship.
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EPT
