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Note the question mark in the title, it is a sincere question. From my point of view, post quality on TL has diminished a lot, but it could also just be that my perception in this matter has changed.
I remember TL as the place with "nazi mods", who crush anyone that dares to post without thinking. When I started visiting in ~2002 I was too afraid to post, because I didn't want to put out rubbish. Then SC2 beta came along and with it a HUGE amount of new posters, who didn't know how things were done around here and it seemed like the mods were being significantly more lenient towards these new members, but after a while it didn't change very much. As if everyone got so used to allowing low quality posting, that they forget about banning/warning where they would have done so in the past.
More specifically I'm talking about posts that obviously ignore the OP or the discussion in the last 5 or so posts, showing that the poster didn't bother to read or think about what he's read. Also, a lot of pseudo-discussions happen, where people argue in circles, citing single phrases to prove that they are "right" - or at least not "wrong". I'm sure everyone has met people who argue like that IRL, for me that usually leads to ignoring that person forever and I can't imagine (tell me if I'm wrong) that anyone who doesn't do the exact same thing can endure conversations like that. So why allow it in an online discussion, where there is the awesome mod power to stop it?
Is my perception in this matter off? Should there be a commandment "Thou shall read before posting"?
Thanks for reading
 
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United States3931 Posts
If it doesn't directly violate the rules or isn't obviously warranting a ban or at least a warning then I wouldn't really care. Tbh, you should provide some evidence, some examples of exactly what kind of posts you mean.
Btw, at the start of TL.net, the posts would sometimes be about toilets so... :/
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
I think that we finally are getting past the BW is greater then SC2 is greater then LoL is greater then Dota 2 arguments that plagued the forums. People who visit now are doing better to take their time when posting. However, I agree it is still true that the OP message is usually lost after the first page. Most people just jump to the last page and respond from there. Unless the posters get better the only other solution is to lock up threads which is a bad idea. So just have faith in a year or two it’s even more better. xD!
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It is just rose-colored glasses. If you go back and look at some of the threads from the pre-sc2 days, some of them are just shit-fests that would have been insta-locked now. I'm sure there is some good stuff mixed in there, too, but you see a lot of flame-baiting garbage that goes on for quite a while.
Then there is this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=22757
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Posting on TL+ is much much better than general forums.
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I disagree.
Not sure when I started visiting TL maybe around 2005/6.
In my memory at least there were a lot more trashy or fun topics. On the other hand the strategy forum was really good with high level players giving nice insight and good moderation.
Now I feel it is the other way around. The BW strategy forum still has high level players but the forum is pretty much dead and the sc2 strat forum has quite bad quality and the general forum is more strictly moderated and less fun :S
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you could have trashy fun topics back in the day because there were so few people, try that with this many and it turns into a incomprehensible mess.
The lol forum is actually really nice with a solid group of regular posters.
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I am with BisuDagger that the community seems to have gotten better in the last year or so. We shed a lot of the "SC2 is dying" crap and people talking about how BW was magic, even though it was in 640 x 480 and ran slow as shit(go watch those old battles and count between dragoon shots). We still have the garbage design threads that make me want to rip my eyes out, but those are fewer and far between. I can only hope it gets better and we stop with the drama trains that follow every single decision Blizzard makes about SC2. Seriously, its like they can’t even fart without someone writing a thread about if the designers of SC2 are eating correctly and if that is having a negative influence on the game design. And that thread will some how get to warpgate as a discussion point.
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Dude teamliquid was crazy in the late BW era, much more was tolerated as teamliquid wasn't as big by far. Still strict in comparison with most forums however. Especially the Blog section was crazy, that was out of control.
I speak as an experienced member, after all, I'm high in the ban toplist.
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On July 31 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:
I am with BisuDagger that the community seems to have gotten better in the last year or so. We shed a lot of the "SC2 is dying" crap and people talking about how BW was magic, even though it was in 640 x 480 and ran slow as shit(go watch those old battles and count between dragoon shots). We still have the garbage design threads that make me want to rip my eyes out, but those are fewer and far between. I can only hope it gets better and we stop with the drama trains that follow every single decision Blizzard makes about SC2. Seriously, its like they can’t even fart without someone writing a thread about if the designers of SC2 are eating correctly and if that is having a negative influence on the game design. And that thread will some how get to warpgate as a discussion point.
shut up, BW is magic
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On July 31 2013 02:06 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:
I am with BisuDagger that the community seems to have gotten better in the last year or so. We shed a lot of the "SC2 is dying" crap and people talking about how BW was magic, even though it was in 640 x 480 and ran slow as shit(go watch those old battles and count between dragoon shots). We still have the garbage design threads that make me want to rip my eyes out, but those are fewer and far between. I can only hope it gets better and we stop with the drama trains that follow every single decision Blizzard makes about SC2. Seriously, its like they can’t even fart without someone writing a thread about if the designers of SC2 are eating correctly and if that is having a negative influence on the game design. And that thread will some how get to warpgate as a discussion point. shut up, BW is magic
Don't get me wrong, BW was amazing and its shows in how those matches still hold up to this day. I respect it in every way. However, the prople who likely never played BW at any level and talk endlessly about how it was magic and Blizzard is SO dumb for not copying it. Those people are dumb and the sooner they stop donig that, the happier I will be.
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Bisutopia19299 Posts
On July 31 2013 02:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 02:06 sob3k wrote:On July 31 2013 02:03 Plansix wrote:
I am with BisuDagger that the community seems to have gotten better in the last year or so. We shed a lot of the "SC2 is dying" crap and people talking about how BW was magic, even though it was in 640 x 480 and ran slow as shit(go watch those old battles and count between dragoon shots). We still have the garbage design threads that make me want to rip my eyes out, but those are fewer and far between. I can only hope it gets better and we stop with the drama trains that follow every single decision Blizzard makes about SC2. Seriously, its like they can’t even fart without someone writing a thread about if the designers of SC2 are eating correctly and if that is having a negative influence on the game design. And that thread will some how get to warpgate as a discussion point. shut up, BW is magic Don't get me wrong, BW was amazing and its shows in how those matches still hold up to this day. I respect it in every way. However, the prople who likely never played BW at any level and talk endlessly about how it was magic and Blizzard is SO dumb for not copying it. Those people are dumb and the sooner they stop donig that, the happier I will be.
Nothing beats the magic of warpgates.
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Thanks for the input everyone, seems like I was too selective with my memories.
For reference, this is what caused me to think I might be completely wrong about what makes a bad post. Note that the thread was still in SC2 General when this was posted. I reported this person and nothing happened, thus giving me food for thought:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19314172
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19315188
I thought this is a violation of the commandment "THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS" which includes pros and semi-pros. I think it is pretty rude to tell someone to summarize a 20min video about personal motivations; if one isn't interested, one doesn't need to watch. Also, the 2nd post uses a quote, yet ignores the substance of it, he simply re-states his demand for a "tldw".
Another specific example that I can remember is this post, where someone responded without reading more than "liver failure" and "metal":
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410827¤tpage=4#73
Funnily enough, he was right in this matter, turns out Jeff Hanneman didn't count to 2, but the point stands since that information was unavailable at the time.
However, I see now that I have translated isolated barely-passable(?) posts into a generally bad posting standard.
And BW is magic, absolutely.
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nah the whole argument is off the goddamn rails by page three thing has been around forever. If anything, as others have said, there were more fun but trashy kinda threads that would have never been allowed to exist now. That was more blogs starting than anything.
the only thing that is different was the bw vs sc2 debates. Which really isnt that foreign at all because if it wasnt bw vs sc2, we had wc2, wc3, wow, lol, etc etc etc. The core thing was the same: nerds arguing over why their game is better than this for an arbitrary reason
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United States3824 Posts
You are also older than you were in 2002, perhaps the discussion level stayed the same but your comprehension level of shitpost became higher.
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Canada11378 Posts
Why you hating on design threads Plansix? BW is magic, don't be a hater 
I feel like the number of reports have gone down in the last year, but maybe that's because Kadaver gets them all.
But I don't think it is much worse now compared to a couple years ago. I can't speak to 2002 and I don't really remember what 2007 TL was like because I was fairly narrowly focused on reading the strategy section.
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Do you even remember some of the posts back in '02? Do you remember how many one-line posts there were? I mean I started off lurking too, but it didn't take me long to start calling people out for the rubbish they posted on this website. Why you think I signed up in the first place? To call people out! It's funny because all this time my mandate hasn't changed very much from back then. Trying to think back to the period between '06 and '08 if those were the Golden Years of posting.. Early 2000's I wouldn't say so because as I said there were a lot of short snide posts, BUT you did have mensrea kicking tail.
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On July 31 2013 04:18 Falling wrote:Why you hating on design threads Plansix? BW is magic, don't be a hater I feel like the number of reports have gone down in the last year, but maybe that's because Kadaver gets them all. But I don't think it is much worse now compared to a couple years ago. I can't speak to 2002 and I don't really remember what 2007 TL was like because I was fairly narrowly focused on reading the strategy section.
They just drag down the whole discussion. I could draw a chart detailing the whole thing:
Korean protoss wins a BO3 using a super sharp 2 base all-in specificlly designed for his opponent -> People complaining about said 2 base because it wasn't an honorable macro game -> complaints about Blizzard because they created everything -> design discussion about protoss and why they are bad -> warpgates, defenders advantage, mech and some other crap.
I could create like 4 more of these and reference them every time it comes up, because it happens a lot. It makes for whiney players who would rather bitch than play or figure shit out.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
I was terrified of posting back in early 2012 :s
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EPT
