The Way PvZ Should Be Played - Page 2

His response seems perfectly fine and understandable to me. You on the other hand can't seem to come up with any argument or don't know how to read and call him ' tunnel vision people' . Oh and btw it's "you're" .

ineversmile

United States583 Posts

January 14 2013 18:56 GMT

#24

On January 14 2013 03:22 mizU wrote:
What makes you think GM players don't gate expand? Do you not watch streams? Anyway, I think the answer is simple. Greedier opening = stronger 2 base play

Of course I know that some players gate expand. My point is that the standard, for the vast majority of players, is the FFE. I have only been talking about the higher-ups using the FFE...that was always my point.

On January 14 2013 15:58 Game wrote:
I knew this was a SC2 blog the second I saw no screenshots

I was thinking about this, and I plan to add some pictures. Maybe I should have set up the blog more before posting it...I just wanted to get my thoughts down, and I've been gone for the last 2 days.

It's fair for you to say that this blog should have pics, but it is definitely not OK to use that to fuel some arbitrary BW vs SC2 fight on a blog that has nothing to do with that ridiculous fanbase rivalry.

On January 14 2013 12:41 EtherealDeath wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 14 2013 11:59 Eifer wrote:

On January 12 2013 07:17 ineversmile wrote:

On January 12 2013 06:53 Eifer wrote:
The reasoning behind a FFE is not in defensive potential. It's to change the amount a protoss invests in units for attacking/harassing/expanding.
Harass off a gate opening can be reactively shut down by a zerg. Attacking off a gate opening puts the necessarily high gas investment at risk and if the zerg appropriately scouts and prepares for it, then the attack will be unsuccessful. Due to the movement speed disparity and benefit of creep spread, zergs can crush failed attacks.
This means any attack you make becomes an allin and any harass will be unsuccessful.

However, off a FFE, the quantity of units for each of the three choices: attack, harass, expand become larger and cannot be countered by one round of larva injects and instead require more units from the zerg (read: why casters are almost guaranteed to say: "He needs to buy more time!")

I think your approach is misguided.

None of this makes sense; the entirety of the pressure is 2-3 stalkers chasing out the initial lings, walking across the map, poking around the zerg's base, and then returning home before ling speed finishes. If you're committing to an attack on creep, you're doing something else. If you don't know the ling speed timing, you're doing it wrong.

The FFE gives the illusion that it's more economical because it gets a faster Nexus, but by opening with pressure you end up with a worker lead for a full minute or two longer in the early stage of the game. Total worker count is completely unimportant; the discrepancy between the probe count and drone count is what matters. Tack on the fact that tech is always faster, and the gateway opener just dominates by comparison to the FFE.

It's my understanding of the game that i've drawn from 5000+ games at masters/grandmasters level. If we have a different perspective, it's ok - but understand that you didn't respond to the reasoning I gave and from the contents of this thread, don't have very much game experience with the concepts you're proposing.

Hey Eifer, I have a fun way to summarize the anti-ineversmile. ZoohairZ style ~

I looked up ZoohairZ for about 5 minutes, and all I could find was a player who used to play zerg, and then switched to LoL. VODs don't appear to be up at twitch. VODs on his youtube are apparently all LoL play, aside from an Evanescence video or something. Liquipedia drew a blank; TL's search seemed to draw a blank, too.

So all I'm getting, here, is that you want me to switch to LoL.

On January 13 2013 08:55 Whatson wrote:
Don't you think that if gate expand wad really more economical and better, better players would use them? I'm sorry, I don't trust the judgement of a NA masters player who probably doesn't even train in a team house. I'll trust the judgement of those players whose jobs are to win games, because they're always at the forefront in terms of strategy and builds.
Is it a coincidence that the 2-2 gas split and defense of the roach max all originated from pros and not a NA masters? I think not.

I'm not suggesting that pros can't figure things out for themselves and that masters-level players can't. I'm suggesting that the pros are not looking at this particular part of their game under a microscope and seeing if they could do better. They might be better at figuring out builds and executing them, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are doing that.

EtherealDeath

United States8366 Posts

January 14 2013 19:06 GMT

#25

Zoohairz likes to make lots and lots and lots of early speedlings or speedling roach or other gay shit while being droned up and shit. It's a pain in the fucking ass on a number of maps when gateway expanding depending on how you do it, and if you do it the safe way it's super easy to get outmacroed by normal play so yea....

ineversmile

United States583 Posts

January 14 2013 19:11 GMT

#26

On January 15 2013 04:06 EtherealDeath wrote:
Zoohairz likes to make lots and lots and lots of early speedlings or speedling roach or other gay shit while being droned up and shit. It's a pain in the fucking ass on a number of maps when gateway expanding depending on how you do it, and if you do it the safe way it's super easy to get outmacroed by normal play so yea....

Thanks for clarifying.

I have dealt with this a large number of times. I will write this down on the list of things to include in the OP; thank you.

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