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Well, it's have been around 3/4 months that sc2 bored me. I'm playing at a decent level, mid/highish master and the game simply isn't fun. 90% of the game involves a P or a Z and either some sort of 1b play and 3b turtle into deathball. And since most of the fights are over in less than 10seconds well...
TvZ has been fucked up to no extend and you've to go for a pre hive timing or be insane and play bio. Full bio can be fun but it's like the most frustrating thing in the world to lose because your opponent managed to land one fungal on a good chunk of marines, or worst, your medivacs, you're dead. Hell if he manages to get enough infestor energy you're dead anyway. Moreover static defenses mean that multipronged harass is less effective, even with bio, than packing your army and fighting the Zerg head on. At least you avoid the 3b push before brood lords or die, when you see that someone like Bomber never build a 4th CC, even against foreigners you know something is wrong... It's exactly the same way for PvZ but luckily you have a slight possibility in the lategame to get a composition that can fight straight up bl/infest as T (hey Tajea !). Either you 2rax (someone had seen a marau/hellion work recentely?) or you go for a greedy 3base build into double upgrades. There is almost no middle ground and either there is nothing happening during 15minutes or the game end in 5minutes. At the pro level this is no longer the case if the Z wish too. You see more mutas play (which is awesome) or even multipronged Z aggression in the mid game like Life or Leenock do.
TvP is better, i think the match up is interesting to watch but god it's so hard at my level. If i go for a cheesy/pressure build my winrate skyrock since P aren't good enough to defend (my 1/1/1 is my best TvP build...) but I have like a 5% winrate if the game goes after the 20th minute mark (mass gates + ht/colo + bank...) considering i go for a macro build. Hence i can try to outgreed them or play against the clock. Greed is a real problem in this match up too, you can lose/win games just because one person does a random build. I've seen people going 1g - ht off 1 sentry/1stalker. If you scout it somehow (lucky scan or risky poke) it's fine if not he has storm at 9minutes when you get stim and a decent size MM ball. It just feels wrong, same if you go for a greedy 3rd + upgrades and the P goes for a 3g robo, if you snipe the 1st obs the P is in the dark and can't punish you. But if he go blindly for a 6+gates all in, well gl holding it. Overall i appreciate the match up but I'm just a tad too bad to really enjoy it, and the skill gap that i've to overcome is depressing.
I love TvT, that was the main reason to stick to T one year ago but hell, who gets to play more than a few TvT... It has an early, mid game, and even a late which is a bit weird if you go marine/tank vs marine/tank. Well evertyhing TvZ hasn't (nor PvZ)... The fact that 3 styles are more or less viables is really good too.
Overall I could live with the nr15 in TvZ if it wasn't for the fact that the core Z unit is a dumb spellcaster. At least ghosts had an aa when you massed them. It just feels so wrong, i dunno but for me scbw (i played really casually as a kid/teenager) was epic fights between zealots/marines/goon/tanks/lings/hydras supported by a few spellcasters/powerful units. It's was more a feeling than a complex reality but seeing sc2 going towards caster based fights is like awful. Lategame is all about landing the right spells at the good time and like it just feels you're playing a complex moba sometimes.
I've still glimpses of hope for sc2, especially if Kespa maps destroy the meta which right now is awful and blizz gives up there horrible attempt to balance the game with numbers tweak. Either they changed the flawed concept (ff/larva/mules/chrono/warp ins...) and units (roaches/colo/marau) or they just stop tweaking a few things that won't make the game better and let sc2 map makers impose their view. Plexa mentionned the problem that there is a good map making community, with great stuff, even on these forums but that they're ignored by tournaments. Seeing Kespa willing to shake things up is good because it seems that a good chunk of people in charge of the main tournaments are afraid to innovate and prefer this dumb stalemate to something unknown. Maybe at pro level TvZ will solve itself with more innitiative going on from the Z but it's clear that at low gm/master level they'll sit on their infestors because it's easy to do despite being unfun.
I hope that people will realize that sc2 right now just isn't a good game despite its potential and that you've to change things, without blizz since they're so proud of dumb stuff.
I've invested thousands of hours in sc2, both playing and watching but it might be the time to consider stop playing it since it just feels unfun. I might give a try at HotS beta tho, cause the people are really nice 
  
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Feel pretty much the same way. TvT was the only reason I played for several months.
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Yeah, a few months ago I realized that the only reason I kept re-trying Starcraft 2 was because it's titled Starcraft 2.
Eventually you realize it's not lived up to it's name and that it's time to accept that.
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Sorry that you feel that way. I guess i will have to keep having fun withou you on ladder 
However. I think that your approach is what is making it boring for you. Instead of putting the load on the different factors in and outside the game that you think are bad (certain units, maps, etc) Try instead to get creative yourself. Think up new strategies and uses for units and stuff. Thats one of the things that made brood war great you know :D
games in the world, although i agree with you that it could always be better.
I cannot give you any creative ideas myself since i don't play very creative. I just play standard and enjoy the slow improvment and mastery.
And i don't think you give enough basis to plainly state that the game is not good. You should try to explain that better, or realise it is just your opinion. Many people still consider starcraft 2 one of the best games in the world, although i agree with you that it could always be better.
Lets hope you get back the fun in the game anyway. Either by Blizzards or the communitys hands. or who knows? Maybe
you can find the fun by your own hand!
Good luck with the beta!
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Haven't played SC2 for over a year. I realized it's not ladder anxiety, it's just that the gameplay is not rewarding enough to make me want to play again.
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On November 19 2012 23:22 Teoman wrote:Sorry that you feel that way. I guess i will have to keep having fun withou you on ladder However. I think that your approach is what is making it boring for you. Instead of putting the load on the different factors in and outside the game that you think are bad (certain units, maps, etc) Try instead to get creative yourself. Think up new strategies and uses for units and stuff. Thats one of the things that made brood war great you know :D games in the world, although i agree with you that it could always be better. I cannot give you any creative ideas myself since i don't play very creative. I just play standard and enjoy the slow improvment and mastery. And i don't think you give enough basis to plainly state that the game is not good. You should try to explain that better, or realise it is just your opinion. Many people still consider starcraft 2 one of the best games in the world, although i agree with you that it could always be better. Lets hope you get back the fun in the game anyway. Either by Blizzards or the communitys hands. or who knows? Maybe you can find the fun by your own hand! Good luck with the beta!
I think the game is a bit stale and very one dimensionnal in some match ups. Imo TvT/TvP is fine but since i suck at TvP it's not that fun. TvZ is like so unidimensionnal it's not even funny. On most ladder map (except TDA/Condemned ridge) blord/infestor is just way too good. It's better to play against it on Whirlwind than Cloud Kingdom for me because at least you've time/space and you can bully the Z and exploit his immobility. It's hard to do but so funnier than the feeling you get when you see 15+infest and broods and you know there is no way you'll get ravens out with seeker missiles rdy (or win for that matter if the Z doesn't fail hard). It's the symptom of PvZ in a slightly less exagerated manner.
Add the fact we're playing on the same maps for like 1year now and that half of ladder map pool is useless for everything else than ladder and it's frustrating to play TvZ on Ohana/Antiga/Entombed/Daybreak since the games are all the same. Defend the possible all in, becareful in mid game and push pre hive while crossing your fingers. I've said that at a higher level it might change due to the ability of the Z to do something in mid game but a T who pushes with 3tanks at 12minutes is a dead T whatever your build is, infestor/ling will rape you. You need a critical mass that you get (if everything goes well) pre hive tech and then you push, mech or marine/tank it's the same story.
I need to give another try at pure bio but you ran in other problems.
There are a lot of good things in the game but imo the fact that spellcasters are 1 of the 2 main deciding factor of battles (the other is proper positionning) and the current meta are just awful imo and not fun. It's not an absolute truth by any mean, just my opinion.
The problem with creativity is that you ran in a brick wall vs Z. In mid game Z armies backed up by infestors just destroy horribly T and P 120/140ish food armies. You can be cute but there is an unit that counter at least slightly almost anything you can throw at it (mech: infest, marine/tank: infest, bfh/bio: infest, bio: infest, sky terran (for the lulz) it are pretty good so infest...). A good example of why cute play is bad if you're playing something else than Ladder is Lyyna's mech vP. If you know what he does you can hardcounter him so hard it's not even funny (same for his mech vT btw :D), almost every non orthodox way of playing relies on the fact your opponent doesn't know how to react to it.
Blind greed or blind all ins are just coin flipping but since you can deny scouting easily it's almost the best way to play at my level, and that's something frustrating when me or my opponent get a huge advantage of a build order (on ladder context, in bo3/5 series it's a whole other matter) it feels like you can go back to rock/paper/scissor. sc2 has 0 competition in its category since it destroyed both its predecessor (war3 and bw) so if you want to play an rts yeah it's the best competitive rts atm that doesn't mean it doesn't have huge flaws imo.
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2 words, seriously... Kobold Tribes. I'm same, mid/high masters depending on season, but this game has me HOOKED it's that fun. I've found that taking breaks allows me to approach laddering again with a fresh mind, and to treat laddering as a fun experience too, where I become comfortable trying to win with silly builds.
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Fair points. I enjoy all the matchups until I play them a lot in a short space of time. I always enjoy PvT though.
I would love it if the fights went on longer and there was less of an emphasis on fungal/storm/emp/forcefields etc. A few support spellcasters rather than 20 infestors being the standard would be nice.
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On November 20 2012 00:35 tehemperorer wrote:
2 words, seriously... Kobold Tribes. I'm same, mid/high masters depending on season, but this game has me HOOKED it's that fun. I've found that taking breaks allows me to approach laddering again with a fresh mind, and to treat laddering as a fun experience too, where I become comfortable trying to win with silly builds.
I might give it a try ty for the advice.
On November 20 2012 00:42 paddyz wrote:
Fair points. I enjoy all the matchups until I play them a lot in a short space of time. I always enjoy PvT though.
I would love it if the fights went on longer and there was less of an emphasis on fungal/storm/emp/forcefields etc. A few support spellcasters rather than 20 infestors being the standard would be nice.
the only reason i don't enjoy as much TvP as i should is because my standard play sucks but i like the dynamics in the match up
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same dude. stopped playing a few months ago. Been playing DotA 2 since then. Way more fun although it is easier once you get the hang of it but fun > the frustration that is sc2.
only so many times you can get ramp blocked and waiting to mass a deathcall you can handle lol
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Iunno, I usually start amassing 3-4 ghosts and cloak+emp/reactorx2 vikings...its all about spreading out your units so they don't get chain fungaled, but I can see where that'd get frustrating...won quite a few games off zergs because all they'd make is infestors mid-game and 1 emp clears the energy off like 1/3rd-2/3rd of them....that+i make a ton of marauders and medivacs and try to spread them out(very similar to running around looking for hold position lurkers in Brood War). I feel the clumping is one of the reasons why infestors are so strong...so you've gotta play at a level above, oh well, isn't that how games are played, otherwise you can't win. And before anyone says anything, Im a random player(and my zerg style doesn't even use the infestor =D). That said if you're finding yourself banging your head in the wall, don't play for a bit, you'd be surprised what a break can do(both to the meta game and to your thirst of Starcraft 2).
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On November 20 2012 01:42 FromShouri wrote:
Iunno, I usually start amassing 3-4 ghosts and cloak+emp/reactorx2 vikings...its all about spreading out your units so they don't get chain fungaled, but I can see where that'd get frustrating...won quite a few games off zergs because all they'd make is infestors mid-game and 1 emp clears the energy off like 1/3rd-2/3rd of them....that+i make a ton of marauders and medivacs and try to spread them out(very similar to running around looking for hold position lurkers in Brood War). I feel the clumping is one of the reasons why infestors are so strong...so you've gotta play at a level above, oh well, isn't that how games are played, otherwise you can't win. And before anyone says anything, Im a random player(and my zerg style doesn't even use the infestor =D). That said if you're finding yourself banging your head in the wall, don't play for a bit, you'd be surprised what a break can do(both to the meta game and to your thirst of Starcraft 2).
i hate ITs way more than fungal nowadays since fungal is the same as blings anyway. but it's more the late game army with 20+ infest a good pack of corru and a few brood that bores me really, it's just sad that the infest is an answer to everything in the mid game. Tho multipronged IT harass is beautiful and offensive infestor usage really cool but it happens once in a blue moon in my games.
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On November 20 2012 00:08 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 23:22 Teoman wrote:Sorry that you feel that way. I guess i will have to keep having fun withou you on ladder However. I think that your approach is what is making it boring for you. Instead of putting the load on the different factors in and outside the game that you think are bad (certain units, maps, etc) Try instead to get creative yourself. Think up new strategies and uses for units and stuff. Thats one of the things that made brood war great you know :D games in the world, although i agree with you that it could always be better. I cannot give you any creative ideas myself since i don't play very creative. I just play standard and enjoy the slow improvment and mastery. And i don't think you give enough basis to plainly state that the game is not good. You should try to explain that better, or realise it is just your opinion. Many people still consider starcraft 2 one of the best games in the world, although i agree with you that it could always be better. Lets hope you get back the fun in the game anyway. Either by Blizzards or the communitys hands. or who knows? Maybe you can find the fun by your own hand! Good luck with the beta! I think the game is a bit stale and very one dimensionnal in some match ups. Imo TvT/TvP is fine but since i suck at TvP it's not that fun. TvZ is like so unidimensionnal it's not even funny. On most ladder map (except TDA/Condemned ridge) blord/infestor is just way too good. It's better to play against it on Whirlwind than Cloud Kingdom for me because at least you've time/space and you can bully the Z and exploit his immobility. It's hard to do but so funnier than the feeling you get when you see 15+infest and broods and you know there is no way you'll get ravens out with seeker missiles rdy (or win for that matter if the Z doesn't fail hard). It's the symptom of PvZ in a slightly less exagerated manner. Add the fact we're playing on the same maps for like 1year now and that half of ladder map pool is useless for everything else than ladder and it's frustrating to play TvZ on Ohana/Antiga/Entombed/Daybreak since the games are all the same. Defend the possible all in, becareful in mid game and push pre hive while crossing your fingers. I've said that at a higher level it might change due to the ability of the Z to do something in mid game but a T who pushes with 3tanks at 12minutes is a dead T whatever your build is, infestor/ling will rape you. You need a critical mass that you get (if everything goes well) pre hive tech and then you push, mech or marine/tank it's the same story. I need to give another try at pure bio but you ran in other problems. There are a lot of good things in the game but imo the fact that spellcasters are 1 of the 2 main deciding factor of battles (the other is proper positionning) and the current meta are just awful imo and not fun. It's not an absolute truth by any mean, just my opinion. The problem with creativity is that you ran in a brick wall vs Z. In mid game Z armies backed up by infestors just destroy horribly T and P 120/140ish food armies. You can be cute but there is an unit that counter at least slightly almost anything you can throw at it (mech: infest, marine/tank: infest, bfh/bio: infest, bio: infest, sky terran (for the lulz) it are pretty good so infest...). A good example of why cute play is bad if you're playing something else than Ladder is Lyyna's mech vP. If you know what he does you can hardcounter him so hard it's not even funny (same for his mech vT btw :D), almost every non orthodox way of playing relies on the fact your opponent doesn't know how to react to it. Blind greed or blind all ins are just coin flipping but since you can deny scouting easily it's almost the best way to play at my level, and that's something frustrating when me or my opponent get a huge advantage of a build order (on ladder context, in bo3/5 series it's a whole other matter) it feels like you can go back to rock/paper/scissor. sc2 has 0 competition in its category since it destroyed both its predecessor (war3 and bw) so if you want to play an rts yeah it's the best competitive rts atm that doesn't mean it doesn't have huge flaws imo.
I understand your opinion on the staleness, and i kind of agree with you (although i personally don't find it a problem). But the thing i meant with getting creative was that you have to ignore what you think makes the game "bad" or "stale" and try to think up new things for yourself, in the process ignoring all the barriers of the current metagame.
But i can also see why you would not chose to do that. And i think i see your viewpoints.
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I feel exactly the same and I already didn't really play for 2 weeks. Most of the games are against Zerg and Protoss and both matchups are no fun at all. I can't even decide which matchup is worse.
Protoss can do so many different things to get ahead early before you can scout and react to it that most games are either you being forced to all in in the mid game or you getting all ined in the mid game and if the game gets to a somewhat even late game it's not very fun to play either. The person who wins one fight will win the game so both players don't really want to engage but if you don't engage as a Terran you don't gain any advantage compared to Protoss adding on more and more gateways.
Against Zerg your only chance to beat their late game is to go Mech and turtle all game until you are on 5 bases and have all armory upgrades with the perfect composition to beat everything they can throw at you. But then again it's so easy to die at any point if they know how to deal with that strat. Bio is just a lost cause, you can harass them all game but when they finally do get to broods and you don't have a very big advantage you will just lose.
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Thousands of hours of gameplay, and skill at the game at a reasonably high level? It sounds like you got your money's worth.
Good luck to you in whatever other game you choose to pursue. And remember to give HotS a try.
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On November 20 2012 04:19 aZealot wrote:Thousands of hours of gameplay, and skill at the game at a reasonably high level? It sounds like you got your money's worth. Good luck to you in whatever other game you choose to pursue. And remember to give HotS a try.
it competes my d2 ratio money/time, something i thought wouldn't be possible :p and i still need to play at least one cw so i've to put a few more hours
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As a possible alternative game, there's this one called StarCraft: BroodWar. It's pretty fun, you should try it out.
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Welcome to the iQuit club. I quit a month ago, though granted it wasn't out of boredom because NA GM is not so gosu that you can't do all sorts of special hilarious builds on it. Rather I feel like I'm going to get RSI in my wrists if I keep up on it, so it's time for an extended Dota 2 break! MEEPWN.
You should join us.
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Yup, join us playing Dota 2. I love playing single draft for the variety.
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Yeah I understand you. I actually quit the game because it was stressing to play, and predictable/boring to watch. In July I received a Dota 2 key from Valve and I just never looked back. It is so fun to play, alone or with friends, but it's super fun to play with other people. Watching it is so fun too, one thing I really like is that average game lasts 30-35min, so there isn't too many games that end before you seeing much action. Stupid all-ins or cheesy plays has made SC2 very boring for me..
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Once I hit masters in 1v1 I played on and off, TvP was really fun until late game which was always auto-lose unless my opponent was diamond. I liked TvT but I was never good at it, only won by outmacroing and outplaying my opponents despite not knowing what I was doing. TvZ was incredibly fun until the queen buff which destroyed it imo. Haven't really laddered since, been playing lots of team games with my friends and Kobold Tribes.
Probably will quit if HotS flops (it probably will).
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On November 20 2012 05:15 ninazerg wrote:
As a possible alternative game, there's this one called StarCraft: BroodWar. It's pretty fun, you should try it out.
I'm teasing some friends who were decent on ICCup to teach me :D Need to finish my cw season before anyway I'll probably change a bunch of stuff in my gameplay and see how it works out for me.
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EPT
