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Code S Ro16 has concluded and I present the newest Korean ranking a bit early for October. With KeSPA players in GSL, OSL, WCS and WCG, I began including them now. 4 KeSPA players made a direct entry with By.Rain directly to rank 3. There may be more KeSPA players deserving a place, but we still haven't seen too much of some other players.
Please consider that the new KeSPA players (and Yonghwa) took some places when you see a good perfoming player dropping 1-2 ranks (like Symbol, Creator, HerO)
Remark after first comments:
GSL is not the only tournament in Korea. I value it the highest, but please consider other tournaments too. Especially WCS and WCG which are not found in the TLPD results.
WCS: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series/Asia/Nationals/South_Korea
WCG: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2012/Qualifiers/Korea
KarlWarkov already posted his Top30 Foreigners October: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=371948http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=371948
My last ranking (Top 30 Koreans September): http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=365737http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=365737
Introduction
+ Show Spoiler +There is always a lot of discussion who the best SC2 players are. Some automated ELO rankings like TLPD (or sc2charts.net) provide an idea but are not satisfying. Based on KalWarkov`s Top30 Foreigner Ranking, I present you my Top30 Koreans. The players should be ranked by their current overall skill. To judge this, obviously recent results count more, but a GSL win doesnt put you on #1 automically and an established player who is slumping a bit won't fall too far. I hope we can get a nice discussion going like in the other thread. I will regard your opinions for the next ranking. Please consider that the skill-gaps are pretty small and there is no real difference between 3-4 places (especially in the lower part). I could give explanations why I placed the players in this order but I guess I wait for your critics.
Ranking
1. (0)  TaeJa (Liquid)
2. (+3)  Seed (IM)
3. (*) By.Rain (SKT)
4. (-2) MC (SK)
5. (-2) Squirtle (Startale)
6. (0) MarineKing (Prime)
7. (-3)  DongRaeGu (MVP)
8. (-1) Symbol (TSL)
9. (-1) Creator (Prime)
10. (0) MVP (IM)
11. (*) YongHwa (IM)
12. (+4) Life (Startale)
13. (+1) Leenock (FXO)
14. (-2) HerO (Liquid)
15. (-6) Byun (Prime)
16. (-1) Curious (Startale)
17. (-4) PartinG (Startale)
18. (-7) NesTea (IM)
19. (*) RorO (Khan)
20. (*) herO[jOin] (CJ)
21. (+4) Polt (TSL)
22. (+6) HyuN (TSL)
23. (+7) Jjakji (NS HoSeo)
24. (-7) MMA (Slayers)
25. (-7) CoCa (Slayers)
26. (-6) GuMiho (FXO)
27. (-6) Sniper (MVP)
28. (*) Flash (KT)
29. (-2) First (IM)
30. (*) Happy (IM)
Dropped Out: Puzzle (Slayers), Alicia (Slayers), Genius (Slayers), viOlet (Azubu), San (NS HoSeo), Supernova (mtw)
Close but no cigar: Ryung (Slayers), Hack (Startale), Heart (coL), Keen (MvP), Vampire (MvP), aLive (Fnatic), Oz (Fnatic), YoDa (IM), Alicia (Slayers), Genius (Slayers), viOlet (Azubu), San (NS HoSeo), Supernova (mtw), sOs (Stars), JYP (EG), Flying (Stars), Last (STX)
Teams: IM 6, Startale 4, Prime 3, TSL 3, Slayers 2, Liquid 2, MVP 2, FXO 2, NsHoseo 1, SK 1, SKT 1, Khan 1, CJ 1, KT 1
Explanation on changes
- Taeja qualified for the third straight time for GSL Ro8. He also dominated Dreamhack Valencia. There was a loss to By.Rain in GSL and to jjakji in WCG. But he still had the strongest month out of the top players.
- MC had a bad month, only beating Jaedong in GSL and dropping out. Losing Bo1 in OSL and GSTL. Who will take his spot? Seed didnt make the Ro8, but he only narrowly lost to Symbol and Life and finished NsHoseo in GSTL.
- He is followed by By.Rain who makes a direct entry on rank 3. He still lost to Happy in GSL and herO[jOin] in Proleague, but his overall gameplay and performance in OSL and GSL merits this spot already.
- Of the other former players rank 3-7 (Squirtle, DRG, MKP, Symbol) no one really disappointed. DRG and MKP prove that you shouldn't let them down when they are a having a bit of a slump. DRG still dropped 3 places cause Seed, By.Rain and MKP passed him.
- After this line, Creator retains his spot over MVP. He won TSL over Life and his Code A match. MVP advanced to the Ro8, but didnt look to good in other leagues.
- Byun was unfortunate to meet By.Rain 2 times in GSL and was knocked out. As his only result this isnt too bad but he will get passed by good perfoming players like HerO, Leenock and Life who all advanced to the Ro8. HerO still has uncharateristic lossed to players like Jeal and Targa in international events.
- But, hold on, one player needs to be placed above all of these. Its another IM Protoss: Yonghwa. He is not in GSL, but on a sick winning streack, claiming the WCG Korea title and all-killing both Fnatic and Slayers in GSTL.
- The next line is right around Nestea who dissappointed in GSL and one might fear about his career if he drops out of Code A. All top results where lately were achieved by players above Nestea. After Nestea we can put the next promising KeSPA players: Roro and herO[jOin] who both played well during the Korean WCS already. Roro won his Code A Ro48 and herO[jOin] beat By.Rain in proleague.
- jjakji made a jump despite dropping out of Code A. He beat Taeja in WCG and is 4-2 in GSTL.
- Slayers got a lot of problems and are slowly fading off as a top team. Puzzle has an unfortunate illness and is dropped out. Genius and Ryung placed last in their GSL groups. MMA third. Coca and Alicia with no results this month (didnt try to qualify for GSL). All Slayers players are dropping. 3 of 5 dropping out.
  
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Imho:
3th Rain: too soon (hell be out once he faces a few Z's)
4th MC: too much
5th Squirtle: too much (after his elimination from GSL)
10th MVP: ?!?!?! He should be top 8 at least.
14th Hero: top 10.
18th Nestea: too much
Still, nice rank 
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United States8476 Posts
Overall fair rankings. I would put MVP much higher, Seed lower. I also think it's a bit premature to put roro and hero[join] on the list, with only one WCS tournament and some proleague results.
My top few are:
1. Taeja
2. MVP
3. By.Sun
4. MKP
5. MC
6. Seed
7. Creator
8. DRG
9. Squirtle
10. Leenock
11. Symbol
12. Life
13. Curious
14. Parting
15. Hero
16. Byun
17. Nestea
18. Polt
with Younghwa throw somewhere randomly in there.
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I know a lot of people may disagree with your lists, and you usually don't get a lot of stars for the posts, but I love reading these. I especially approve of this list for the high rating of YongHwa! ;D
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MVP looks strong with his history and the recent Ro8. But like I said he hasnt convinced in other tournies. Lost in OSL and GSTL (well only Bo1) and was eliminated from WCG by Baby. His map score since end august is 9-9. Thats why I couldnt place him above the likes of DRG/Symbol/Creator.
Squirtle did get eliminated from GSL, only narrowly. He hasnt had a really bad tourney for a long long time. Thats why I don't let him (and MC) drop too much for being eliminated. (just like I did - IMO rightfully - in the case of MKP and DRG)
On September 29 2012 04:36 Kasaraki wrote:
I know a lot of people may disagree with your lists, and you usually don't get a lot of stars for the posts, but I love reading these. I especially approve of this list for the high rating of YongHwa! ;D
Thanks for the comment. I don't care about stars.
I love writing these and am even more happy if some people read them or even dicuss with me.
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I would like to see a more detailed explanation (pick by pick)
i agree that mvp is too low
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On September 29 2012 05:42 Mattchew wrote:
I would like to see a more detailed explanation (pick by pick)
i agree that mvp is too low
Which players especially? I don't feel writing 30 explanations each time. The ranking is related to last month ranking and some players didnt have many (or any) games played.
The thread is linked at the top. Maybe you can find explanations there.
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I think Life should be top 8 IMO as he is destroying in everything he is in. Also RoRo and HerO shouldn't have been put in so soon IMO as they have only really had WCS results.
Leenock should be higher for sure but other then that very fair list.
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United States15275 Posts
1. Taeja
2. Creator
3. Seed
4. Leenock
5. By.Sun
6. Squirtle
7. Hero
8. Life
9. Mvp
10. MarineKing
11. Dongraegu
12. MC
13. sHy
14. Symbol
15. Yonghwa
16. GuMiho
17. Parting
18. Curious
19. Byun
20. Hyun
21. Sniper
22. Roro
23. Polt
24. hero[join]
25. Last
26. Supernova
27. jjakji
28. Flash
29. Nestea
30. Keen
While Taeja deserves the #1 spot, Dreamhack Valencia is not a good indicator of that. He actually looked weaker at that tournament than any other time in the last two months, especially since he walked into the venue as the overwhelming favorite. I actually considered dropping him from #1 after watching By.Sun decimate his defenses in the Ro16, but that was the first real exploitation of Taeja’s bad tendencies.
I felt like you ranked Symbol too highly. Although he did make it into the Round of 8 with some feisty games against Seed, he has looked mighty susceptible to both protoss and zerg recently. He has been dropping a lot of games against “inferior” competition in both categories.
Gumiho got the bad end of your analysis. He has been playing really well over the last month and showing some very intelligent decision-making. If he had been put in another Ro32 group he would have made it out.
That’s about the extent of my quibbles.
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On September 29 2012 06:11 CosmicSpiral wrote:+ Show Spoiler +1. Taeja
2. Creator
3. Seed
4. Leenock
5. By.Sun
6. Squirtle
7. Hero
8. Life
9. Mvp
10. MarineKing
11. Dongraegu
12. MC
13. sHy
14. Symbol
15. Yonghwa
16. GuMiho
17. Parting
18. Curious
19. Byun
20. Hyun
21. Sniper
22. Roro
23. Polt
24. hero[join]
25. Last
26. Supernova
27. jjakji
28. Flash
29. Nestea
30. Keen
While Taeja deserves the #1 spot, Dreamhack Valencia is not a good indicator of that. He actually looked weaker at that tournament than any other time in the last two months, especially since he walked into the venue as the overwhelming favorite. I actually considered dropping him from #1 after watching By.Sun decimate his defenses in the Ro16, but that was the first real exploitation of Taeja’s bad tendencies.
I felt like you ranked Symbol too highly. Although he did make it into the Round of 8 with some feisty games against Seed, he has looked mighty susceptible to both protoss and zerg recently. He has been dropping a lot of games against “inferior” competition in both categories.
Gumiho got the bad end of your analysis. He has been playing really well over the last month and showing some very intelligent decision-making. If he had been put in another Ro32 group he would have made it out.
That’s about the extent of my quibbles.
Thanks for your ranking and opinion. I agree with Dreamhack Valencia. That doesnt count a lot when you fight for #1. Taeja looked a bit weaker overall, but no player was really challenging his top spot. Maybe By.Rain (or Sun) will.
Symbol was hyped to the one of the favourite of last years Ro8 for good reasons. Now he is in Ro8 again (only Taeja did that too). I don't know where he looked bad against zerg. The cross server play on EU isnt a good indicator (esp. in ZvZ).
Where did Gumiho play besides GSL in the last month? 3 Kespa players were placed infront of him, so he was only passed by Yonghwa, Polt, Hyun and jjakji. You can make a case about jjakji but the others were really looking better IMO.
Regarding your ranking, I think sHy is placed too high just based on one Code A match and proleague results. Even my placements of RorO, herO[jOin] and Flash are speculative.
#4 is IMO really too high for Leenock. Like you pointed out about Dreamhack Valencia, his MLG win doesnt count a lot there. He didnt beat any Code S player. In GSL he was in a slump the last months and just came back with this Ro8 performance. Leenock also didnt qualify for OSL or WCG and was knocked out in Losers Round 2 of WCG.
I think in general a lot of you are valueing GSL too high. If one player gets to the Ro8 or not, that mostly just depends on one series and then often on one game. Also there is a lot of drawing luck and form of the day involved.
I look for other tournaments too (WCS and WCG are not in TLPD!). GSL results count more, but not everything.
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I feel like first should be way higher 
Trading games with taeja, allkilling prime.... he's on a roll ^^
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On September 29 2012 12:57 GTPGlitch wrote:I feel like first should be way higher Trading games with taeja, allkilling prime.... he's on a roll ^^
I don't think way higher. But in his case I missed his IPTL allkill of prime (not on TLPD yet).
So probably should place him around 20-25.
He is still a rather new figure and doesnt convince everywhere (out of Code A).
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A short update after week the first week of October:
- MVP beats Symbol and should pass at least to rank 6-8. Especially after you all rate him that high.
- Life may get near top10 as well, challenging DRG and Symbol slowly for the title of best zerg.
- Parting all-killed Prime in IPTL and won 2 games vs MVP in GSTL. Should climb back up.
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seed lower
MVP higher
Jaedong to the "Close but no cigar" guys
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Supernova should definitely be on the list, he had some great showing at foreign events recently.
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On October 08 2012 04:54 9-BiT wrote:
Supernova should definitely be on the list, he had some great showing at foreign events recently.
I can't value foreign events highly unless the player beats some really good opponents. If you want to earn your place on the list, you can't only beat players who are not on the list.
At Campus Party Supernova beat ForGG (not on the list) and no really top foreigner. At IEM he beat MC, but lost to Vortix.
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I mainly disagree with MVP's ranking. While he is always underperforming in teamleague and had not so good results in OSL/WEM, his second place at GSL, him beating Rain and being close to defeat Life should put him in top 3. He is f... MVP after all. Especially if your reasoning is to take into results not just in the short term.
After that, i'd put Life higher (~7-10) and i'd put MC and Seed a bit lower.
I also definitely disagree with Taeja being top1. But we are here on TL so it is understandable. He had awesome international results but he never managed to qualify for a code S final, neither did well in prestigious korean tournaments such as OSL, WCG or WCS. I'd put him top3-top5 but it is hard to put him above MVP, Life and Rain.
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On October 29 2012 06:06 Thurken wrote:
I mainly disagree with MVP's ranking. While he is always underperforming in teamleague and had not so good results in OSL/WEM, his second place at GSL, him beating Rain and being close to defeat Life should put him in top 3. He is f... MVP after all. Especially if your reasoning is to take into results not just in the short term.
After that, i'd put Life higher (~7-10) and i'd put MC and Seed a bit lower.
I also definitely disagree with Taeja being top1. But we are here on TL so it is understandable. He had awesome international results but he never managed to qualify for a code S final, neither did well in prestigious korean tournaments such as OSL, WCG or WCS. I'd put him top3-top5 but it is hard to put him above MVP, Life and Rain.
these rankings are a month old, none of the results you mentioned had happened by that time
but hey, at least you tried
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EPT
