|
The Intro:
So It's been awhile since I made a blog post, as in my previous blogs, I consider myself a "lurker", I don't make posts very often but I do quite a lot of reading and spend quite a bit (probably too much) time on TL every day.
My first blog posts were about how much the TL community and site have meant to me, a constant, evolving source of information for my favorite games, BW and SC2.
However, a new favorite has entered my life, and that my friends is DotA2. So you shouldn't be surprised when I heard TL would be covering DotA2, a massive grin emerged on my face.
I played a lot of DotA in my day, however like BW I never got into the pro scene until rather late, late being Valve's first International DotA2 tournament. Looking back now, the first International was rather lackluster. Poor production, a new game with a small hero pool (44 heroes at the time), and the teams not having much time to practice, with the alpha version of the game only available for a short period of time for these teams before The International. However it started a lot of talk, Valve offered up $1 Million to the winner, more money than any game had seen and this was before Riot's announcement of their multi-million dollar prize pool for season 1. However, people still wondered if this game would ever take off.
It took awhile, but it did take off. So in this blog I am looking at why DotA2 is becoming the next big eSport.
The Game:
So, DotA has been around for ages, stemming even from the Aeon of Strife map for BroodWar. The game has been through many changes, at multiple points, the game was so unbalanced and broken nobody even considered it to be viable for competitive play, simply another custom map in WarCraft 3 to break up a day of laddering. The game went through multiple lead coders, Eul ported over AoS from BW to WC3, making the first DotA map. Then came Guinsoo (currently a lead at Riot), who gave us item recipes, Roshan, and many of the heroes we enjoy playing today. Then eventually, the man, the myth and the legend, IceFrog began his reign in DotA v6.01.
IceFrog changed the course of DotA's future, he went to the community and asked them what was wrong with the game, he provided changelogs for his patches, where before players had to find for themselves what had changed. He worked tirelessly on balancing the game, it's heroes, and it's items. from 6.01. to 6.74 the game has changed quite drastically. And it's because of IceFrog alone, DotA is now a legitimate eSport.
IceFrog is now a lead at Valve, DotA2 is his game, and he no longer has the WC3 map editing tools holding him back. However he has stated DotA for WC3 is still his priority, but all the changes he makes can easily be ported over to DotA2. Still to this day, the only balance changes DotA2 has received, were directly ported over from his DotA maps in WC3.
The eSport:
Now, the meat to this blog sandwich. Why is DotA2 so damn exciting to watch? For me it's easy, same reasons I grew up watching quake demo's, the TSL, proleague and MLG. To see the best players play their game in a fashion I could never see myself replicating. DotA2 is so deep in many ways, heroes, items, mechanics, teamwork and overall skill. The strategies are almost endless. Even though I hate the word and believe it doesn't belong in DotA, the "meta-game" is always evolving. Every tournament has the potential to bring something new to the table that players and spectators alike have never witnessed. From the draft, to the horn, the early game, mid game to the late game, it's always evolving. Players can go from contributing nothing to their team in the first 20 minutes, to carrying their team for the last 15. We see gigantic gold/xp leads whittled down to nothing, or simply not meaning anything at all. We'll see a player go 0-22 and still win the game (Maelk I'm looking at you). The bottom line is, anything can and will happen in DotA and that's why I love it.
Valve:
Ahhh Valve. Who doesnt love Valve? In a world where Activision is now Blizzard, EA is a target for so many internet pitchforks and Ubisoft is well, Ubisoft, Valve has continued to keep their fans happy, They seem to do everything right lately, and that includes DotA2.
Valve has stated that DotA2 is their project, they don't look at Riot or S2 to see what they are doing right or wrong, they look at their community.
We want spectator clients? We got them.
We want steady releases of heroes? We got them.
We want to support our favorite teams? They let us buy pennants with the bulk of the proceeds going to the teams.
Replays? Yep.
Stats Database? Yep.
LAN? Of course.
As it stands right now, Valve can do no wrong. And we all know one thing for sure, they support their games. DotA2's future is looking bright.
Conclusion:
I hope the TI2 and TL's recent coverage of DotA encourages more SC2 fans to check out DotA2. Because I believe the DotA and SC2 communities have a lot in common, and they are both fun games to play, and they are both insanely difficult to master, making them both exciting to watch.
Thanks for your time and I hope you check out DotA2!
|
ive hated dota ever since it spammed the wc3 customs and i could no longer play epic matches of archery tactics.
|
On September 09 2012 03:28 WniO wrote:
ive hated dota ever since it spammed the wc3 customs and i could no longer play epic matches of archery tactics.
What a win! comment :D
|
On September 09 2012 03:28 WniO wrote:
ive hated dota ever since it spammed the wc3 customs and i could no longer play epic matches of archery tactics.
I feel your pain, I enjoyed other customs as well. WC3 Battle.net had its pro's and cons, but hey, we got DotA2 now.
|
On September 09 2012 03:28 WniO wrote:
ive hated dota ever since it spammed the wc3 customs and i could no longer play epic matches of archery tactics.
Finding pimp my peon games and enfo was a nightmare too! :D
OT: I'm on the fence when it comes to dota2. A part of me craves the depth and mechanical finesse of the game, another just can't be arsed to learn so much shit to play a game.
I'm a big moba-newb, barely played the original dota back in the wc3 days, and stumbled across LoL a year ago.
Played it with a friend and got really into it for a stretch, but the thing that gets me with moba-games is that there's an astonishing amount of knowledge you have to have about virtually everything in the game to play even semi-competently.
Whereas SC2 feels sortof "intuitive" in the regards to the limited amount of units and buildings, all moba games have like 100+ character which all have unique strengths and weaknesses that you have to know-- And that's not even taking into account stuff like buffs, items, champ-combos and whatnot.
I thought learning LoL was a pretty rough deal, and from what I hear Dota is supposed to be alot more complex.
What do you think? Is it enjoyable to learn dota2 for a complete newb or is it a long, arduous uphill climb?
|
Its a long, enjoyable uphill climb
|
On September 09 2012 03:28 WniO wrote:
ive hated dota ever since it spammed the wc3 customs and i could no longer play epic matches of archery tactics.
with any luck, dota 2 will incoporate custom games into it, and dota2 will atone for the misdeeds of the past.
On September 09 2012 03:58 CutieBK wrote:
I thought learning LoL was a pretty rough deal, and from what I hear Dota is supposed to be alot more complex.
What do you think? Is it enjoyable to learn dota2 for a complete newb or is it a long, arduous uphill climb?
One thing that I feel that a lot of people forget is that you are controling >>1<< unit, with only 4 abilities. Sure there is countless nuances and stuff, but if you break it down to the barebones, MOBAs are simpler games than traditional RTS. The endless nuances are what make the game still interesting, but getting into them; if you put in a decent 2 months, you will be up to speed.
|
On September 09 2012 03:58 CutieBK wrote:
I thought learning LoL was a pretty rough deal, and from what I hear Dota is supposed to be alot more complex.
What do you think? Is it enjoyable to learn dota2 for a complete newb or is it a long, arduous uphill climb?
I believe LoL is a much simpler game to learn, however DotA2 is much more enjoyable once you do get the hang of things, I played 1000+ games of DotA1, took a few years and a number of patches off before picking up DotA2 and I was a complete scrub again, however after about 9 months I'm getting to where I'd like to be skill wise, and being able to finally do well has been extremely satisfying.
Outplaying your opponents in a game of DotA carrying your team to victory is one of the most enjoyable experiences in gaming. It's the same feeling I got when I finally beat Demon's Souls. Lots of hard work and effort finally paying off.
The difference is, in LoL, I always felt it was my teams fault when we lost a game, in DotA, I usually immediately know I could have played better.
|
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces.
|
On September 09 2012 07:42 sc4k wrote:
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces.
Yeah, Dota seems a bit like playing protoss. But just because it's a simpler game doesn't make it any less difficult -- there's definitely skill involved as well as teamwork. It's just not as mechanical or strategic as playing terran, imo 
|
On September 09 2012 07:42 sc4k wrote:
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces.
Precisely chess with 4 pieces per person, but you're forgetting that there are 8 more people playing. That's the whole point, the whole source of excitement, and that's where the real strategy and skill come into play (teamwork).
|
I'm still pretty sure it's just a game designed to make noobs feel like they are pro.
|
Then why don't you try playing it instead of making comments about a game that you've never played and looking like an ass?
|
On September 09 2012 07:42 sc4k wrote:
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces.
But that's what makes it so popular.
|
On September 09 2012 12:06 writer22816 wrote:
Then why don't you try playing it instead of making comments about a game that you've never played and looking like an ass?
I've watched friends play the game for a few hours, couldn't bring myself to play it, after having played Starcraft it's like putting the safety wheels back on my bicycle. I understand that people are going totally crazy about how omg wow you have to use teamwork wow it's so awesome it really tests your understanding and knowledge and timing. Right, but it gets rid of all the mechanical skill that proper RTS requires and is therefore the gaming equivalent of using bumper lanes in bowling.
On September 09 2012 12:25 Cubu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 07:42 sc4k wrote:
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces. But that's what makes it so popular.
Right, popular amongst casuals, noobs and people who are afraid to play proper RTS...
User was banned for this post.
|
I don't understand the argument. It's basically like hockey players telling soccer players their game is shit because they don't wear skates, play on ice, and use a stick.
"LOL SCRUB, You never learned how to skate so you have to kick a silly ball around. Soccer takes no skill, you don't even have to use your hands. What, are you too scared to learn how to stick handle?"
Your argument brings nothing to the table. No discussion can be had, DotA is trash because you only control 1 unit. RTS is king because you control multiple.
Are pro Quake players also trash because they only control themselves? Please.. Offer up something constructive next time you make a post.
|
On September 09 2012 13:13 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:06 writer22816 wrote:
Then why don't you try playing it instead of making comments about a game that you've never played and looking like an ass? I've watched friends play the game for a few hours, couldn't bring myself to play it, after having played Starcraft it's like putting the safety wheels back on my bicycle. I understand that people are going totally crazy about how omg wow you have to use teamwork wow it's so awesome it really tests your understanding and knowledge and timing. Right, but it gets rid of all the mechanical skill that proper RTS requires and is therefore the gaming equivalent of using bumper lanes in bowling.
Don't trash the game until you play it. I don't enjoy it either, but I'm not going to sit around and say it's shit just because I don't like it. Typically the ones who talk smack about the game without playing it are the ones who're afraid of losing the advantages that make them better RTS players only to discover that when they play DotA, they don't have the skills necessary to be good DotA players. Either criticize it from a player angle, a spectator angle, or kindly stfu lest you look like a douchey idiot.
Sky, for the record, plays a ton of DotA nowadays and freely admits to not being exceptionally good at the game. He has actually been getting flak for being pretty unimpressive at DotA from quite a few Chinese fans, and in his last DotA cast addressed how his RTS skills don't necessarily transfer over. (And has incidentally promised to practice more DotA.)
Sky averages ~275+ APM in his War3 games. He is one of the top three War3 players of all time. He is still a threat in the War3 scene today. He is one of the biggest eSports figures in China. Yet, he has trouble with DotA, despite DotA being "a game designed to make noobs feel like they are pro." Kindly excuse me if I decide to take an actual RTS pro's opinion over yours.
|
On September 09 2012 11:55 sc4k wrote:
I'm still pretty sure it's just a game designed to make noobs feel like they are pro.
I could give you 3 months to train in the game and I'd still beat you 1v1 with one hand. There's a reason why players who have only dedicated 5+ years to the game are professional players.
Only bad players think it doesn't take mechanical skill. I hit masters in around 3 months in sc2, in dota it took a LOT longer to play at a high level.
|
On September 09 2012 13:13 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:06 writer22816 wrote:
Then why don't you try playing it instead of making comments about a game that you've never played and looking like an ass? I've watched friends play the game for a few hours, couldn't bring myself to play it, after having played Starcraft it's like putting the safety wheels back on my bicycle. I understand that people are going totally crazy about how omg wow you have to use teamwork wow it's so awesome it really tests your understanding and knowledge and timing. Right, but it gets rid of all the mechanical skill that proper RTS requires and is therefore the gaming equivalent of using bumper lanes in bowling. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:25 Cubu wrote:On September 09 2012 07:42 sc4k wrote:
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces. But that's what makes it so popular. Right, popular amongst casuals, noobs and people who are afraid to play proper RTS...
Well i wouldn't say afraid to play. More like rts games are just abit too hard to get into.
|
What Dota 2 needs right now is LoD  I miss my windwalk, jinda, overcharge, grow build..
|
On September 09 2012 13:13 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:06 writer22816 wrote:
Then why don't you try playing it instead of making comments about a game that you've never played and looking like an ass? I've watched friends play the game for a few hours, couldn't bring myself to play it, after having played Starcraft it's like putting the safety wheels back on my bicycle. I understand that people are going totally crazy about how omg wow you have to use teamwork wow it's so awesome it really tests your understanding and knowledge and timing. Right, but it gets rid of all the mechanical skill that proper RTS requires and is therefore the gaming equivalent of using bumper lanes in bowling. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:25 Cubu wrote:On September 09 2012 07:42 sc4k wrote:
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces. But that's what makes it so popular. Right, popular amongst casuals, noobs and people who are afraid to play proper RTS...
So how come so many ex-sc2 players play it? Most people I play dota with, including myself, is ex-master leaguers who got bored of sc2 and went back to our dota roots from years ago.
|
On September 09 2012 13:13 sc4k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:06 writer22816 wrote:
Then why don't you try playing it instead of making comments about a game that you've never played and looking like an ass? I've watched friends play the game for a few hours, couldn't bring myself to play it, after having played Starcraft it's like putting the safety wheels back on my bicycle. I understand that people are going totally crazy about how omg wow you have to use teamwork wow it's so awesome it really tests your understanding and knowledge and timing. Right, but it gets rid of all the mechanical skill that proper RTS requires and is therefore the gaming equivalent of using bumper lanes in bowling. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:25 Cubu wrote:On September 09 2012 07:42 sc4k wrote:
Dota is a glorified UMS designed for people too afraid to play a real RTS. One hero 'micro'. Fuck sake. It's like downgrading chess to have 3 pieces. But that's what makes it so popular. Right, popular amongst casuals, noobs and people who are afraid to play proper RTS...
Okay, then it's probably news to you that the Dota scene in China is on level with the korean scene in BW in terms of training. And even if you just look at something like 1v1 mid. Sounds pretty mechanically easy right? That's what I thought too until I saw 430 just destroy everybody else in pro games.
I think you need to calm down a bit and cut out the extreme arguments. No one is arguing that Dota is just as mechanically hard as BW (I assume you're a BW player; if you're SC2 then you're one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever seen). But deriding it as a game just for "casuals, noobs and people who are afraid to play proper RTS" is just ignorant and insulting.
|
I would say that the way in which TL staff have embraced dota as the spiritual successor to BW might tell you how fucking hard it is
The recurring attitude of 'hurr durr one unit for RTS nubs' is the exact attitude I had about 7 years ago, yet I hear am, several thousands of hours of dota later
|
On September 09 2012 13:26 EnrageD wrote:
I don't understand the argument. It's basically like hockey players telling soccer players their game is shit because they don't wear skates, play on ice, and use a stick.
"LOL SCRUB, You never learned how to skate so you have to kick a silly ball around. Soccer takes no skill, you don't even have to use your hands. What, are you too scared to learn how to stick handle?"
Your argument brings nothing to the table. No discussion can be had, DotA is trash because you only control 1 unit. RTS is king because you control multiple.
Are pro Quake players also trash because they only control themselves? Please.. Offer up something constructive next time you make a post.
loved and played soccer for 12 years - but it is one of the easiest skill sports to play, you basically need to be in great shape and have decent ball control and you are set, once you get past high school its essentially just passing as trying to burn someone is next to impossible, so i would say hockey takes more "skill" or whatever. that being said soccer is BY FAR the best sport for kids to do as its cheap as fuck, shirts/skins or simple colors jerseys a ball and 2 goals. where football hockey requires 300+ dollars for one kid... and in soccer generally everyone can play since there is basically a dozen kids on each team.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
