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On August 08 2012 04:14 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:03 VampireLady wrote:On August 08 2012 03:52 Djzapz wrote:
I don't feel I was judgmental in any post I made. If you feel that I was, you probably missed the point.
Seize the moment all you want but show something for it. And if you get called an attention whore for it, show them that you're more than that. If your whole gig is about looking for attention, then you're just cheap entertainment and people will and should loathe you because you're Dane Cook. Okay, let me try to explain once more. You are saying this " wouldn't call it success when it's acquiring a modest amount of viewers largely based on one's lack of a chromosome Y. It's like being proud of your nationality when you haven't done anything to deserve it. Just accomplish real things. " If this isn't condescending i don't know what is. Again you are saying that people need to show something for it and you should be loathed if you are not. But that doesn't happen overnight either people need time and the opportunity to get those positions where they can shine but before that you need recognition and that is how some girls utilize streaming/cam to get there. So in a way you are being judgemental beforehand by implying what they're doing is not accomplishing real things. It truly isn't condescending. That's an example that happens to involve women, but it could just as well have been the example of an actor who got into Hollywood because of daddy, as I mentioned before. How about "I wouldn't call it success when it's acquiring a modest amount of viewers largely based on being IdrA's brother" or something like that. You're not accomplishing anything if you get viewers because you're a girl or if you know someone who gave you those viewers. By itself, it's not wrong - but if you want to earn my respect, you have to do something to earn those viewers because until you do, your viewers themselves know why they're watching you and it's not a very glamorous reason. I don't understand what's your aversion to having to earn things. Sounds like a trust fund baby trying to justify its existence. As if having stuff given to you constituted some sort of accomplishment.
I'm not saying you should respect them just for getting viewers by having a pair of breasts but just leave them be. A lot of men are very derogatory and loathe as you said it because they do that. I'm really curious, don't you see how you prematurely take people down by having an attitude like that ?
I never claimed or mildly suggested getting viewers by being female is an accomplishment but it does lead to you getting a name, and when you have a name you will get into a team or position where you can ( for example host like Anna Prosser ) more easily. My problem here is why nepotism is okay when its Anna prosser but don;t have relatives or anyone they know cannot get there by streaming with a cam of some sort to try and get to their position.
Again, and I am not speaking chinese, there are a lot of ways that lead to Rome. One knows someone gets high position and does what she loves. The other streams gets viewers, gets a name and tries to get somewhere.
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There's no nepotism. It all boils down to the fact that whatever you do, you have to show something for it. That's all.
Applies to everyone.
If people call you an attention whore and you're not, "haters gonna hate". If people call you an attention whore because your channel's all about the fact that you're a girl, then come on, you can do better.
Edit: Well there is nepotism actually but that's not the point. There's nepotism everywhere.
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On August 08 2012 04:36 Djzapz wrote:
There's no nepotism. It all boils down to the fact that whatever you do, you have to show something for it. That's all.
Applies to everyone.
If people call you an attention whore and you're not, "haters gonna hate". If people call you an attention whore because your channel's all about the fact that you're a girl, then come on, you can do better.
Edit: Well there is nepotism actually but that's not the point. There's nepotism everywhere.
Ah, theres no nepotirms. So, let me get this straight all the people you mentioned as females whom you look up to just by accident happen to be a gf of a progamer or someone renowned in the community. LOL And then you edit it and say there is nepotism.. do you even have any idea what you are talking about? I highly doubt it... And again people who stream and get viewers because they are a girl might prove themselves if they get the chance but they are called out names prematurely by people like you who don't see the link between nepotism between the girls you mentioned and their favoritism and their current position. Again, i truly believe they do a good job but my problem is people who aren't that lucky are called and labeled because they use other means which is streaming getting acknowledged and then proving themselves in the scene in similar positions as the same people you seem to think highly of. You sir are a typical hypocrite, who fails to see the link.
All of this being besides the point my actual point here is, I believe everyone deserves a chance and should not be called out because they happen to be a girl and use that just like some people have an advantage over another by knowing one. And unfortunately girls also perpetuate this image by calling them out which is sad.
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I don't know if the OP will see my post here, but I'll give it a shot...
Um, I went to Taiwan last semester and when I did, I went to Computex. There, they had a showmatch between one of the fans and a female pro gamer known as Gemma SSQ, and they picked me:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/SsQ
a photo of me and SSQ: http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1/eye_am_ben/MeandGemma.jpg (me in the middle, her all the way to the right).
I must say there are certain scenes where the female pro gamer is more "legit." And East Asia is one of them. When I went to an internet cafe in Taipei I saw girls on Computers playing LoL, Dota, SC2, you name it. But I don't really concern myself with it too much, I'm just glad to see that is a bit more "diverse" than in America.
There is also Korean Pro Aphrodite, whose beauty is 100% compounded with her pro skills.
Back to SSQ, she kicked my ass really badly. Bold play. TvZ (myself being Z), she opened up with helions which tricked me into going roaches and I was playing like a silver league player because I was nervous (I made all tier 1 and tier 2 tech units you could think of on two bases), I was being casted by the Day9 and Artosis equivalents of Taiwan, and a few dozen people were watching me play live. The game didn't even last 20 minutes.
The reason I brought up Aphrodite is because she totally beat SSQ in a match I saw featured on the Chinese youtube-esque website, Youku.
Frankly, I don't care about the gender of a gamer. I like to have a good time regardless, and gaming isn't really something that I look for in a trait when searching for a life-long partner, no matter how much time I spend on the ladder.
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With all respect that I think you deserve, Suna, your statement here already made me stop reading.
Truth be told, i have seen this many times over and over.. People love to be judgemental whilst being blind to their own actions and recognition they seek. Taking someone down one way or the other gives one a pleasure of entitlement if you will or a feeling of superiority i should say. More than often this is paired with dislike and sometimes even hatred.
In the past you've been the prime example of someone who is an expert of such behaviour. I would mention the Girls of Starcraft, and that you've been publicly been chewed out and spat on the floor due to your own actions. Yet here you are, claiming that people are doing the thing that is the definition of you, and pretend to despise it. You've always been offensive, rude and insultive to those who do not follow your way, or agree with you.
What you're doing now, is coming back after laying low and being a sad hypocrit. Look into the mirror.
Edit: Highlighted the quote
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You sound like one of those feminists who claim to say "let's be equals" but want to keep all of the favorable double standards.
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On August 10 2012 02:21 Release wrote:
You sound like one of those feminists who claim to say "let's be equals" but want to keep all of the favorable double standards.
You have no idea how close to the truth you truly are.
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I firmly believe that we, as a community should not judge any particular person based soley on their looks.
I believe one of the greatest allures to online gaming (particularly competitive games such a SC2 and counterstrike) is the fact that, behind your screen, no one knows who you are, they don't know if you're male or female, attractive or not. The only thing they have to judge you on is your skill and the way you carry yourself.
As Technology has advanced you see more people livestreaming with a camera to give the stream a more personal feel.
This is fine but it takes away some of that anonymity that you are given by being behind your screen. If you're willing to put yourself out there expect to be judged, it's pretty black and white. The more you give people to see, the more they have to judge you with.
I firmly believe that we should not judge someone solely on their looks, now using those looks to get ahead in a scenario where you normally would not have the skills to do so I find a bit repugnant but obviously my own views on the matter don't mean much as these people are still hitting quite high on the popularity chart.
Do I think we should judge someone just because they're a Girl or because they come off as an attention seeker? No, that's rediculous. Look at QuanticFlo for example, she's a female gamer and I'm quite sure she could beat 99% of the people ripping on female gamers. She's willing to put in the hours to improve and you can tell she's actually in it to win it.
However, when everyone knows exactly how you got a position and they don't feel you deserve it, expect the vocal minority to let you know, that's just part of being in the e-sports scene.
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Although I agree with some of the arguments in OP's post.
I think that it originated with certain female gamers being criticized as not being "real gamers" by some male gamers (which I sometimes can't blame).
And in all honesty, I really can't stand out when there are female tournament hosts, interviewers or other community figures that obviously never played the game or don't know the name of the units / races.
I imagine now that some girl re-use the same arguments too criticize their pears.
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On August 10 2012 02:21 Release wrote:
You sound like one of those feminists who claim to say "let's be equals" but want to keep all of the favorable double standards.
That makes me giggle.
It's not always like that. You should see me trying to convince my bf for the whole way home of giving me one of the frickin grocery store bags... Every time, for 6 months.
It's always a mix of wanting to be equal and what the other person offers/gives you. Sure, there are also people just taking advantage of it like there's no tomorrow.
I'm sorry if this is not exactly on-topic but I had to say this.
On August 10 2012 06:17 LunaSea wrote:
[...]
And in all honesty, I really can't stand out when there are female tournament hosts, interviewers or other community figures that obviously never played the game or don't know the name of the units / races.
[...]
Oh God, that is the frickin worst that can happen, to male of female. Though females are then more likely to be entitled as attention whore. (Was "as" right? Damn it.)
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On August 10 2012 06:24 Yanami wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 06:17 LunaSea wrote:
[...]
And in all honesty, I really can't stand out when there are female tournament hosts, interviewers or other community figures that obviously never played the game or don't know the name of the units / races.
[...] Oh God, that is the frickin worst that can happen, to male of female. Though females are then more likely to be entitled as attention whore. (Was "as" right? Damn it.)
I mean it's the same with some male community figures too.
When you have Sundance the CEO of MLG, answering the question "What's your favorite race ?" with : "Oh, um, I play as the marine.". That makes my ears bleed too.
It just happens less often with male gamers for some reason.
I guess that female community members are hired for other reasons (other standards) than the male staff...
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On August 08 2012 03:21 VampireLady wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 03:14 Djzapz wrote:On August 08 2012 03:10 VampireLady wrote:
wouldn't call it success when it's acquiring a modest amount of viewers largely based on one's lack of a chromosome Y. It's like being proud of your nationality when you haven't done anything to deserve it.
Just accomplish real things. "
Condescending and disaproving statement here.. why do you say this if you think there's nothing wrong with it ? There's nothing wrong with it if you make something out of it. Anna accomplished something. I use the same standards to judge men. If an actor got into Hollywood because daddy happened to be a famous movie director, he better not be a terrible actor - and people definitely shouldn't praise him because he got a free ride to Hollywood. If that's condescending then I'm sorry. Like I said, accomplish shit. Again Anna Prosser had a position where she accomplish way more than a girl who justs get viewers because she is a girl. They have to build a viewerbase, get into a team, and build their career from there.. and you're talking about " accomplishing real things when the position Anna Prosser has is a luxury not many of us have. So yes.. you are quick to judge those "bimbos' as you call them. Also if daddy has a lot of money and people, you can make a song which isnt really yours but still be succesful most fo the things which are managed are done by the people behind the scenes. Accomplishment in these circumstances is very relative.
It's all about who you know. Connections. This is true for every business sector I know. You need a good network and gee golly good for Anna for being with Geoff all those years.
Look, women are alway sizing each other up no matter the context. It's just human nature whether you want to admit it or not. We always concern ourselves with the stupidest things.
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On August 07 2012 18:06 Itsmedudeman wrote:
The whole term "gamer" is stupid. If someone ever referred to themselves as a "gamer" I'd probably never talk to them again - guy or girl.
I know, really. How much gaming to do you have to do to be considered a gamer? My parents occasionally play video games, so are they "gamers"?
WAIT DON'T ANSWER THAT, it was rhetorical. If some girl wrote a post titled "I'm a girl." that would be incredibly stupid. By attaching "gamer" to that, these posers are essentially attempting to legitimize their attention-whoring. It looks tacky, no matter what the intentions behind it were.
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EPT
