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TheCore, the new layout developed in conjunction with FoxyMayhem (creator of DarkGrid), is now released in beta! This layout goes far beyond anything I've ever seen in layouts, and improves on JaKaTaK Righty in every way.
It may see changes as this is our first pulic beta. If you're okay with that, and want to take your control to the next level and reduce wrist strain, dive in!
Part 1 of a blog about a New Cutstom Hotkey Layout from FoxyMayhem and JaKaTaK
If you are not coming here from this thread...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333891
or this thread...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257590
...you will probably have no idea what I am talking about, this blog is in response to community demand about the progress on the new custom hotkey layout from myself and FoxyMayhem.
Hey guys, JaK here,
I'm going to be writing this blog (hopefully daily) on the progress of the new custom hotkey layout from FoxyMayhem & JaKaTaK. I won't be able to release all the data, but if you're itching to try the new layout, this blog will give you a sort of progress bar as to how close we are to beta release. Thank you so much for your interest.
This is NOT the place to start making criticism. The layout is extremely volatile right now and will be until the beta. If you see something wrong with something, its probably because we haven't had the time to fix it yet.
I quit my job to do Sc2, so I'm putting in 3-5 hours a day, but Foxy has many more obligations than I do and puts in as much time as he can. A lot of the delay is due to the fact that Foxy and I have to discuss almost everything we do and come to an agreement on it. We are dedicated to making this the best custom hotkey layou that we can, this also means that we have to constantly challenge our assumptions and be sure to catch every detail that we can; which is time consuming...
That being said, here's some of the data we're working with.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtFSjIb2ibJTdFQ4LVlIcllUUWtGUVY4cWxyLXd6QUE
The program used to gather and analyze this data was written by Voltaire for this project (because he's a fucking boss) This project would not be possible without him. There are a few areas with misspellings and inconsistent capitalization that are due to the creator of the "library" that Voltaire is using and will probably be fixed eventually (not a top priority). The area's with ??? could be issues with a number of things, but basically, the program isn't making a difference between Psionic Storm and Research Psionic Storm as of right now, as well as a couple other ??? sections.
Currently we are working on analyzing the different combinations of tabbed production so that we can fit the "next subgroup" button into the layout. The column for each race on the left side is in the order of blizzard priority during multiple building select. This is a HUGE FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS.
Story time, so blizzard did 1 of 2 things here. (as far as I can tell) They either put no thought into how tabbed production would work and prioritized semi randomly, or they decided it would be impossible to tell the correct prioritization and took their best swing at it, figuring they could patch it up later. I am betting on the second one. Here are the current prioritization for each race:
OC
CC
Depo (Really? Before the unit producing structures??)
Rax
Ebay
Turret
Bunker
Sensor Tower (You're right, I am definitely going to select my Sensor Tower more than my Fact)
Ghost Acad
Fact
Port
Arm
F.Core (Wepon Refit is definitely going to happen more often than Stimpack or Combat Shields...)
PF (OC/CC/PF should be able to build scvs without pressing next subgroup...)
Rtechlab
Ftechlab
Ptechlab
Reactor(didn't check the inner priorites here because they are non-consequential.
Hatch
Pool
Evo
Hydra
Spire
Ultra
Infestor
Nydus
Bane
Roach (Ultras before Roaches huh? Yea, that's my normal build)
Spine
Spore
Lair
Hive (so while you can produce larva without pressing next subgroup, why the fuck are lair and hive not grouped with Hatcheries in the priority list?! What if you're hatches die and you have one lair? you have to press next subgroup through anything else that could be grouped in there just to get to your larva... WTF?!)
Gspire
Warp Gate
Nexus
Pylon (chrono boost would be so much easier if this was at the bottom of the list*)
Gate
Forge
F.Beacon (really... this has to be a joke...)
Twilight
Cannon
Stargate
T.Archives
D.Shrine
Robo Bay (how the fuck does this make any sense AT ALL?! the upgrade structure for the Robo units takes priority over the structure that MAKES the units.... Seriously?)
Robo Fac
Cyber Core
*After thoroughly testing the "double tap control group" function we learned some interesting things.
1. If you group 4 types of buildings in the same CG that fit in a screen and double tap, it will center to the middle of those buildings.
2. If you group multiple buildings that can't fit on one screen the screen will go to the building group with the highest total priority.
3. Each building has a mystery number that counts for its priority. For instance, 2 forges next to eachother take priority over 1 nexus, but 1 nexus takes priority over 1 forge.
Conclusion: If you place your pylons specifically you can make sure when you have a nexus and a forge and the pylons close to the forge in the same control group, the double tap always goes the the pylons and forge. However, because the pylon takes priority over the Forge, it is impractical to do this because you would have to press the next subgroup button every time you do an upgrade at the forge (which happens on average 3.3 times per game) If you don't think that is a lot, look at the spreadsheet for a point of reference. The Forge is the 4th most selected building in the game (behind only the nexus, gate, and robo.
Hopefully 1 of 2 things happen in HotS. Either tabbed production priorities are customize-able, or the new priorities have some semblance of efficiency or at least order (i.e. production structures first, followed by tech structures, in the order of the tech tree.)
Long term, the plan is to have a hotkey layout for each race as well as for random players, a layout for mousebutton and mousebuttonless, and a layout for people with small medium and large hands (maybe even extra-large and fucking huge)
If you do the math, that puts us at 48 layouts to design. Luckily, they will all be transpositions of the original 8 layouts. 4 races for lefties, 4 races for righties. (random is considered a race) Here are the homekey positions for the layouts we are considering. (on a QWERTY keyboard)
Make sure you remove the keys inbetween Ctrl and Alt on your keyboard.
Make sure you tilt your keyboard when feeling this out. (the side of the keyboard furthest from your hand should be further up on the desk than the other, adjust so your hand is coming at a slight inward angle from your elbow and your wrist is straight. I also suggest that you take the "legs" of your keyboard down if you have any; this will lessen wrist tension.
RIGHT HANDED MOUSE (so put your left hand on the keyboard)
all layouts rest the thumb on shift
KOP[ - small
JIOP - medium
HUIO - large
GYUI - extra large
FTYU -fucking huge
LEFT HANDED MOUSE (so put your right hand on the keyboard)
all layouts rest the thumb on shift
QWEF - small
WERG - medium
ERTH - large
RTYJ - extra large
TYUK - fucking huge
JIOP and WERG for random players with and without mouse buttons will be released for beta testing. These will be followed by race specific layouts, followed by hand specific. Remember that custom layouts may be available in the future.
Today we'll be doing more work on fitting in the next subgroup button as well as trying to fix some issues with the program that analyzes the replays.
Thank you for all of your interest and patience. This blog will be updated as progress is made.
EDIT: This layout will not work well with laptop keyboards, if you play on a laptop and want to use this layout, you will have to get a peripheral keyboard that plugs into your laptop.
EDIT: TL:DR This blog contains updates on the new custom hotkey layout from FoxyMayhem and JaKaTaK in order to give people a feeling of how close we are to releasing the layout for beta. I apologize for the poor title, this is my first blog and I thought the title of the blog and the post would show up in the forum.
 
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On May 21 2012 02:28 JaKaTaK wrote:
TL:DR why are you here if you don't like reading this stuff?
since you ask...: because your choice of title is stupid and doesn't tell a thing of what your post is about 
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After reading and rereading your blog I still don't know what it's about. What is it you're trying to do? Play Starcraft with only 4 buttons and a mouse?
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On May 21 2012 05:43 Sinensis wrote:
After reading and rereading your blog I still don't know what it's about. What is it you're trying to do? Play Starcraft with only 4 buttons and a mouse?
On May 21 2012 04:25 MisterD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 02:28 JaKaTaK wrote:
TL:DR why are you here if you don't like reading this stuff? since you ask...: because your choice of title is stupid and doesn't tell a thing of what your post is about
Sorry about that, OP edited. Please look at the top to understand what I am talking about.
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You quit your job to work on Hotkeys?
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On May 21 2012 06:47 Azera wrote:
You quit your job to work on Hotkeys?
I am taking a year, to devote completely to Sc2, whatever that might entail. Part of it is developing this layout. Part of it is a show I started called TheJaKaTaK to help noobs improve at sc2. If at the end of the year I decide its something I want to, and can keep doing, then I will. If not, then I can say that I gave it 100% and have no regrets.
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I'm curious as to how you define hand size; how would someone find out what category their hands fit under in your system?
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Hmm my problem to that set of hotkeys is, that my natural hand position is thumb on space, fingers on sdf.
If i transition that to the right side of the keyboard and place the thumb on shift my hand has to take another position.
I have to either bend my fingers more or turn my hand to the left.
The latter is really bad, no discussion on that and its not intended i guess.
But i think i get the point, you use keys so the hand position is like pinky on shift and others on sdf but with jiop that doenst work out, at least for my hands its more like hiop (which is indeed a lot more comfortable to me).
Its only me but i cant see the advantage of using the thumb for shift over the pinky since the pinky is used for it all the time and to me it was only a problem to do ctrl+fkey, which in both your layouts u already got rid off.
Anyway im totally lookinf forward to ur adjustments in efficiency of keys, if i dont like it with my thumb on shift i simply adapt it to pinky on shift and the stuff u use the pinky for i use my thumb
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On May 21 2012 07:10 Larias wrote:
I'm curious as to how you define hand size; how would someone find out what category their hands fit under in your system?
Very easy, just place your hands on the various homekeys described in the OP and see which feels the most comfortable. Remember that it is important for your thumb to rest on the shift key, and have the ability to press shift+ctrl with the thumb only. The keys between alt and ctrl should be removed from your keyboard.
On May 21 2012 07:15 IlK wrote:Hmm my problem to that set of hotkeys is, that my natural hand position is thumb on space, fingers on sdf. If i transition that to the right side of the keyboard and place the thumb on shift my hand has to take another position. I have to either bend my fingers more or turn my hand to the left. The latter is really bad, no discussion on that and its not intended i guess. But i think i get the point, you use keys so the hand position is like pinky on shift and others on sdf but with jiop that doenst work out, at least for my hands its more like hiop (which is indeed a lot more comfortable to me). Its only me but i cant see the advantage of using the thumb for shift over the pinky since the pinky is used for it all the time and to me it was only a problem to do ctrl+fkey, which in both your layouts u already got rid off. Anyway im totally lookinf forward to ur adjustments in efficiency of keys, if i dont like it with my thumb on shift i simply adapt it to pinky on shift and the stuff u use the pinky for i use my thumb
Shift is one of the most pressed keys in the game (from all the data collected of people playing, shift was consistently one of the top keys pressed.) Having it on your thumb is like magic once you get use to it. It is absolutely my favorite part about using this layout.
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First i have to say that i dont type school-style but i use my ringfinger for qay(z)wsx.
I dont get why they teach it otherwise but to me it means i can have my pinky on shift all the time, just like with your new layout.
So if people really use they pinky to press way(z) your are totally right and having the thumb there all the time to press it is a BIG advantage.
IN that case the only downside is that you cannot type bad mannered stuff so easy and fast anymore:D
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On May 21 2012 09:13 IlK wrote:
First i have to say that i dont type school-style but i use my ringfinger for qay(z)wsx.
I dont get why they teach it otherwise but to me it means i can have my pinky on shift all the time, just like with your new layout.
So if people really use they pinky to press way(z) your are totally right and having the thumb there all the time to press it is a BIG advantage.
IN that case the only downside is that you cannot type bad mannered stuff so easy and fast anymore:D
lolol. you just have to level up your chat micro is all
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You made me realize I have small hands 
Well, I'm really eager to try this out - it will be hard because my brain is not used to the right side of the keyboard.
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On May 22 2012 00:43 zeroISM wrote:You made me realize I have small hands Well, I'm really eager to try this out - it will be hard because my brain is not used to the right side of the keyboard.
Don't let the "bigger is better" mentality get you down man! The layouts will be equal in efficiency, the size options will just be to make it more comfortable for players of varying hand size :D
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I'm really intrigued by this, can't wait for beta!
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On May 22 2012 02:32 Thunderflesh wrote:
I'm really intrigued by this, can't wait for beta!
Thanks man, me either!
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On May 22 2012 00:47 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 00:43 zeroISM wrote:You made me realize I have small hands Well, I'm really eager to try this out - it will be hard because my brain is not used to the right side of the keyboard. Don't let the "bigger is better" mentality get you down man! The layouts will be equal in efficiency, the size options will just be to make it more comfortable for players of varying hand size :D
Thank you very much :D I'm glad to hear this won't bring issues to people like me!
Just a suggestion here, since I have small hands I will have to wait more than the people with Medium hands, which is the layout that is coming out first, right? How about releasing just the "use x instead of z for small hands" on a spreadsheet so we can do it manually?
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On May 22 2012 11:44 zeroISM wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 00:47 JaKaTaK wrote:On May 22 2012 00:43 zeroISM wrote:You made me realize I have small hands Well, I'm really eager to try this out - it will be hard because my brain is not used to the right side of the keyboard. Don't let the "bigger is better" mentality get you down man! The layouts will be equal in efficiency, the size options will just be to make it more comfortable for players of varying hand size :D Thank you very much :D I'm glad to hear this won't bring issues to people like me! Just a suggestion here, since I have small hands I will have to wait more than the people with Medium hands, which is the layout that is coming out first, right? How about releasing just the "use x instead of z for small hands" on a spreadsheet so we can do it manually?
The transfer is pretty easy to do, basically you just move all the keys one to the left or right depending on your layout. The small one will require a bit of creativity, but feel free to PM me if you make the transfer yourself and I'll help you with any questions you might have.
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hi so firstly i was tracking your thread and thank you for all the work that you put into this project, and i am looking forward to start using this as soon as possible. however i did not see that the normal keyboard requirement until now, is there any recommendation for which layout to use (Darkgrid, this, etc) you would suggest for laptop use? i have been using standard, an am and have been using a laptop for sc2 play since i started, and do not plan to use an external keyboard any time soon. thank you.
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On May 22 2012 15:12 Bomsta wrote:
hi so firstly i was tracking your thread and thank you for all the work that you put into this project, and i am looking forward to start using this as soon as possible. however i did not see that the normal keyboard requirement until now, is there any recommendation for which layout to use (Darkgrid, this, etc) you would suggest for laptop use? i have been using standard, an am and have been using a laptop for sc2 play since i started, and do not plan to use an external keyboard any time soon. thank you.
Definitely go for JaKaTaK Righty If you aren't going to be using 4th and 5th mouse buttons, and go for Darkgrid if you are going to be using 4th and 5th mouse buttons.
:D
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I'm willing to beta-test whenever the protoss specific layout comes out. I appreciate your hard work, it's good to see somebody taking a more scientific approach towards the game.
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On May 23 2012 12:26 Larias wrote:
I'm willing to beta-test whenever the protoss specific layout comes out. I appreciate your hard work, it's good to see somebody taking a more scientific approach towards the game.
Thanks so much man. First will be randoms then race specific. The protoss one is going to be awesome because you can squeeze them in better than the other races (less building and unit abilities than Z or T)
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what counts as small/medium/etc hand size?
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On May 21 2012 07:32 JaKaTaK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 07:10 Larias wrote:
I'm curious as to how you define hand size; how would someone find out what category their hands fit under in your system? Very easy, just place your hands on the various homekeys described in the OP and see which feels the most comfortable. Remember that it is important for your thumb to rest on the shift key, and have the ability to press shift+ctrl with the thumb only. The keys between alt and ctrl should be removed from your keyboard.
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Ok so both the Darkgrid thread and your own thread say not to transition to either of them until you get this one ready, my question is since I am impatient would a person that uses the darkgrid layout or the one you already designed be able to transition to this new one you're making easier than a person that is trying your new one after using the standard layout?
Wow it is very late, I hope this question makes sense. I am almost positive I could have worded it differently.
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On May 26 2012 16:34 Bulldog654 wrote:
Ok so both the Darkgrid thread and your own thread say not to transition to either of them until you get this one ready, my question is since I am impatient would a person that uses the darkgrid layout or the one you already designed be able to transition to this new one you're making easier than a person that is trying your new one after using the standard layout?
Wow it is very late, I hope this question makes sense. I am almost positive I could have worded it differently.
Lolol bulldog, i got you, don't worry :D I would say stick to what you are used to, the new homekeys will make this layout completely different from anything (this may actually help in learning it) so it really doesn't matter which layout you are coming from :D
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EPT
