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I just wanted to share my feelings and thoughts about the decision of whomever to have a rematch between Parting and MarineKing in game 4 after MKP dropped out of the game in the GSTL Season 1 2012 Final.
Now it is 6:11 in the morning and I'm lying in bed and writing this on my laptop and I'm really not amused with what I've seen in the last ~4 hours.
First of all I want to say that I'm a huge fan of the GSL and the Korean SC2 scene. I follow almost every single game in the GSL and am rooting for a lot of players at once. So I wouldn't say that I'm biased or anything. For me great play counts and the better player may win.
When I started watching these Finals I was really excited. The two best teams in the world would duke it out in a Bo9 series.
The first 3 games were amazing with Startale bringing out their ace-player Parting very soon. Obviously to put some pressure on to Prime and force them to bring out their ace player, MKP, in return.
So in the game that would decide the whole series one player dropped. Yeah that's right. A player dropped out of the most important game of the series and that after 26 minutes of a pure fight to the death where one player looked to eventually have a decent advantage and on the way to decide the game in his favour.
A shock moment for everyone in the room, including Dustin Browder and Mike Morhaime from Blizzard, and for thousands of fans watching all around the world.
People immediately started screaming "We Want LAN!" and the chaos started.
No one knew what was gonna happen. We only knew that someone had to decide what's gonna happen.
After a five minute break and after judges were studying the replay, Wolf and Khaldor announced that we're going to see another game between those two players. In my opinion - after watching the game and Khaldor and Wolf trying to analyse the replay - a wrong decision.
Parting was on his way to win the game and had a decent advantage. As Wolf even said: MKPs reinforcements could have been killed immediately after spawning from his production buildings.
But the decision of the "judges" stands and the regame was played. And MKP won it and not only that - MKP eventually won the whole clanwar.
Although the casters said that Startale agreed to have a rematch, their hectically gesturing coach looked not amused and certainly not like he agreed.
However. What has been done has been done.
I'd still like to hear an official statement from GOM TV or their judges explaining the basis of their decisionmaking as there was a LOT of money on the line.
I think today was one of the darkest days in the history of Starcraft 2.
Please feel free to comment and discuss below..
PS: Please excuse any typos or grammar mistakes.
 
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I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1.
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I'd still like to hear an official statement from GOM TV or their judges explaining the basis of their decisionmaking as there was a LOT of money on the line.
I'll be impressed if GOM actually releases a statement on this and explain their reasoning on why the regame decision was justified.
I'll probably still disagree with GOM's regame decision but I'll appreciate GOM's transparency and it's the only way to minimize or remove the controversy surrounding the GSTL finals.
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Blame windows. the same thing that happened to mkp in that games been happening to my comp a few times the past week.
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On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1.
Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win.
It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees.
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I think GOMTV and other tournaments need to evaluate the system to handle drops. If one player's is at a distinct advantage it should be extended into a Bo3(Player gets a 1 game advantage). If it is very close to even then just regame. If one player is so far ahead that the game was over then that should be the case. This still puts some judgement in the officials hands, but way less than what is the case now
In this case I think the Bo3 would have been the correct implementation of this system
Yes this adds games, but honestly it should be a relatively rare event. So while it may end up putting a tournament behind once in a while, the benefits would be worth it.
Also Blizzard should implement reconnect support to at least custom games. I think the ladder is fine without out that though.
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On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy. The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees.
If they were playing on LAN, this would not have happened, that is why he is blaming Blizzard.
I was super pumped about the series up until that point of drop. After the drop, everything became a 'what if'. Like he said, it was lose-lose from that single point. if only we had LAN.
you could tell from MKP's expression after his win vs parting that the win was somewhat hollow
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On April 08 2012 14:04 feanor1 wrote:
I think GOMTV and other tournaments need to evaluate the system to handle drops.
Exactly. I'm pretty sure they all have their rules, how to judge this, but if it really comes down to it, it seems they have no clue what to do.
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i was talkin to friend about this.
this is in my opinion a reflection of how greedy blizzard is and they need to implement lan (in a tournmanet version at the least) They'll start complaining about piracy but sc isnt that fun without online anyways. besides they even have a free multiplayer demo. so imo blizzard needs to work on lan asp
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On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees.
I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so.
I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet)
example:
On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS.
I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much)
(Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too)
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I think Parting was the clear victor, but they had to regame or the crowd would've gone nuts: booing, shouting, etc. MKP has a lot of fans.
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The thing is, partinG really couldn't camp all those production structures with only 5 stalkers, and the rest of his reinforcements were halfway across the map.
Imagine if the game went on for 10 more seconds, some marauders and marines would have come out and killed the 5 stalkers, the casters would have said "AND MKP HOLDS", the zealots in the middle of the map would turn around, and they both had strong economies to rebuild their armies. Game goes on.
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I would also like to see GOM's explanation behind the re-game. Sure, Blizzard created inferior conditions that helped make this possible, but GOM had the tool - the replay - to use to make the fair decision.
Depending on what they offer and in-depth analyses of the game from community members, we'll see how much of that decision was based on evidence and how much it was based on human error.
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On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too)
So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
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On April 08 2012 14:29 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too) So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
if it's using lan cords.
then yes, it is BS
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On April 08 2012 14:29 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too) So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
They're not going to blame blizzard that would be a stupid thing to do, im not saying theyre lying but they wouldn't come out and blame blizzard
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I agree with the decision, being a diehard fan of PartinG and MKP for a long time now. Both players had the ability to win the first set, though parting had the more advantageous army, MKP had the economy (so I hear, missed the epic game) to actually produce from all production facilities at a time.
Unless it is absolutely clear, and I mean DAMN CLEAR that the game was over with a dc (ie Bomber v MKP after MKP finished off the last marines and was hunting the last buildings) then it should be awarded. If there is any kind of gray, such as the match tonight, re game... With as volatile of a game sc2 is and how much a few tight decisions can affect the game, anything can happen. Which is why it's fun!
I also wouldn't be opposed to temporary bo3 format where the dc player loses the set or set is awarded to more advantaged player by referee.
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On April 08 2012 14:29 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:11 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 MonkSEA wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 Bagration wrote:
I'm just going to say this: This was not Startale nor Prime's fault, we should not hate on PartinG nor MKP. Blizzard made this finals into a sham.
It was lose-lose the moment the game dropped. Give the regame, and look what happened. Give PartinG the game, and MKP doesn't have a chance to make a comeback. The moment the game dropped when it was not even, the finals became a sham.
Blizzard ruined GSTL Season 1. Blizzard didn't ruin GSTL Season 1. It was reported that the computer disconnected from the Internet, not SC2 disconnecting. I'd rather believe into the authorities then thinking of it as a conspiracy.
The response after thinking about it was a little weird, I mean.. Clearly parting was ahead and about to win. It wasn't Blizzard, nor was it Prime or Star Tale. It was GOM's referees. I know what you're talking about, but I don't think so. I think I posted it about 6-7 times why that the network wasn't at fault (although recent posts aren't finding the posts yet) example: On April 08 2012 12:20 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 12:19 infey wrote:On April 08 2012 12:13 SenorChang wrote:On April 08 2012 12:11 L3g3nd_ wrote:On April 08 2012 12:08 scaban84 wrote:On April 08 2012 12:06 Tobblish wrote:On April 08 2012 12:04 s3rp wrote:On April 08 2012 12:01 Snorkle wrote:
MKP should do the respectful thing and throw this game. Kinda like how you give the ball back to the other team if one of their players gets hurt. Giving the ball back doesn't equal losing on purpose though. Thats more like scoring an own goal because someone a ref. robbed the opponent of one . And that never happens .... The refs decide regame you take it and run simple as that. That has nothing to do with respect you play to win end of story. And if the teams actually had ANY balls they would just stop playing SC2 until Blizzard added LAN. I was expecting a "gg blizzard" comment at the end but then again he's Korean =/ Yeah exactly he's Korean and a pro. Which means he does what he's paid to do. Your post makes no sense. Do you understand that LAN would not have fixed that drop? yes it would have. it was an internet issue, LAN doesnt use the internet. https://twitter.com/#!/dting888/status/188819332145479681 That's not a trustworthy source whatsoever. He has so many obligations to protect the organisation and relations with Blizzard. It casts doubt, which is what it was designed to do, It's far more likely it was an internet issue than a NIC failing and then suddenly working again or losing connection to a wired LAN. Funny how this almost never happened in all of BW history but everytime it happens (very often) in SC2 it's never the internet. Of course, noone can say for sure, sadly. - Hardware issue? then why did they say internet issue, I call bullshit - if it was using LAN connection to the Local Network, then I call bullshit - if it wasn't (WLAN), wtf are they doing. BS. I had other ones I worded better, but I had to write it about 5-7 times already so it's getting tiring (and I can't find my posts since I posted so much) (Also if it wasn't an hardware issue/local network issue, then it's a wireless issue, in which case, parting + casters would've been dropped too) So effectively, you're accusing the head of IPL of lying.
Not all that far-fetched imo until IPL wants to come out and explain how a computer possibly lost connection with the local network. I'm all for giving IPL the benefit of the doubt here, they've done great things. However, conspiracy theorists are going to go bonkers with this b/c saying "it lost connection with the local area network" is pretty damn hard to do.
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There is a clear precedence in Starcraft - a re-game is to be issued unless the game is 100% won for a side. There is no doubt Parting was winning, but the referee ruled that it was not a 100% decision.
In many sporting matches, the referee has to make tough calls and we don't clamour for sporting bodies to release the reasons regarding the decision making.
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On April 08 2012 14:37 Azzur wrote:
There is a clear precedence in Starcraft - a re-game is to be issued unless the game is 100% won for a side. There is no doubt Parting was winning, but the referee ruled that it was not a 100% decision.
In many sporting matches, the referee has to make tough calls and we don't clamour for sporting bodies to release the reasons regarding the decision making.
This is true.. very true. The question you need to ask yourself is not "Was parting really very far ahead?". Instead, you need to ask yourself "was there a chance in a million that, with Parting playing normally, MKP could have won the game?" if the answer is yes, then there needs to be a rematch. Even if the chance is very very small.
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EPT
