• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:55
CEST 09:55
KST 16:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting8[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET1Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more... Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET BW General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game [Interview] Grrrr... 2024 Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Current Meta Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1416 users

Stephano vs aFFZlycu - ZvP - Antiga Shipyard

Blogs > Incognoto
Post a Reply
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
February 26 2012 14:44 GMT
#1
ZvP has been the object of a little controversy recently (I did say a little). I myself have trouble with the match up when I play against opponents of my lowly level. I did however, watch the ASUS ROG Tournament in Helsinki, where I watched Stephano's first class ZvP in action. I had quite a few replays of Stephano, which came from his replay pack, found here. So I took the time to examine his ZvP reps.

[image loading] Stephano vs aFFZlycu [image loading]
On Antiga Shipyard
Download Replay



The game starts with Stephano in the 2 o'clock position and his opponent, the Protoss aFFZlycu at the 11 o'clock position. What I'll be looking at in this analysis is how Stephano opens and what does after that opening. This is as classic a ZvP as you get these days. I won't concentrate on what aFFZlycu (btw, whoever you are, thank you for this replay, but your name is annoying as hell to type) is doing, but rather what does Stephano scout and how he reacts to it.

Stephano's opening is 15 pool, 16 hatch, 16 gas. Something to note is that his starting OL is sent to scout the 5 o'clock position but the first OL he makes goes on to scout the 11 o'clock position. On Antiga you can apparently time your second OL to scout the Protoss main before getting fired at by gateway units. Good to know. The second important thing that Stephano does is make two lings right off the bat and look for Pylons near his base. After that he takes the watch tower and scouts areas further away from his base for probes building forward pylons. This is just playing safe and it's something any aspiring Zerg should do in ZvP.

During all of this, Stephano is content to get some gas and upgrade ling speed, while droning up his two hatcheries.

In the meantime, the lings that were scouting the map finally bounce up to the Protoss ramp and scout the forge FE that affzlycu is doing. Upon seeing this, Stephano immediately throws down his third. Standard, standard, standard.

[image loading]
Fig.1:Poor zergling


Fast forward a bit a few minutes. Stephano continues to maintain map vision with his speedlings, intercepting a mischievous prob(l)e(m), which would undoubtedly have made a problematic pylon somewhere on the map. Standard.

While his third is in its making, Stephano techs to lair, gets a Roach Warren, an evolution chamber, and drones. We're at 7:50 game time.

You'll want to download the replay and note the gas timing, because as soon as the Roach Warren is up, Roach speed and +1 Ranged attack are getting researched immediately and almost at the same time. The timings are really well done. On top of that, Stephano produces a handful on Roaches.

[image loading]
Fig.2:Note the production tab, and the flying pylon warping in drone killers


However after spotting a Warp Prism, Stephano makes a lot of roach/ling and even starts morphing an Overseer. Stephano only knows that both of the Protoss gas geysers in main are taken, which could mean DT. Playing it safe and standard. Either way, the fast mobile force that suddenly appears out of thin air from Stephano deals with the Warp Prism harass easily.

[image loading]
Fig.3:Screw all this..


Figure 3 shows an interesting tale of the Warp Prism being warped away by Roaches, but the real deal is on minimap. A scouting ling is sent by Stephano to determine if the Protoss has taken his third or not yet. This is key to understanding stephano's ZvP. More on that later. Also noteworthy is the income tab. Stephano is up a base with 15 more drones than his opponent, his income is about 30% better than his opponent's (rough estimation, bien entendu). The final detail of note (note how I like the word note xD) is that there's only about a 20 food difference between Z and P. This just goes to show that while there may be a lot of pretty fireworks going on, there are lots of things that a player must take into account. SC2 isn't just macro and micro. Other factors such as decision making and game knowledge are also important, which aspiring players have to know if they to be competitive.

Valiantly, the scouting ling dies, fried alive by the terrible Colossi*. At which point Stephano is unhappy, because his play revolves around denying the Protoss his third. He delays it, wanting to keep his economic edge for as long as possible

[image loading]
Fig.4:Poor probe. Probes are cute btw.


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Fig.4bis:Illustration of Stephano at 11.03


As if taking a third wasn't enough to anger Stephano, aFFZlycu** also drops Zealots in the Zerg main. Luckily, only two drones die, thanks to Stephano's excellent reactions and multitasking. As it is, Stephano has delayed the Protoss his expansion long enough and retreats a bit, without committing to anything other than harassing anything he can. He is content knowing that he is economically outstripping his opponent, who can't move out against him either, given Stephano's map control.

Stephano of course throws down a spire in response to the Colossi menace and continues to upgrade Ranged attack. The corrupters have the added bonus of shutting down the warp prism harass. All's good for Stephano.

This is where Stephano's early third, coupled with denying his opponent's third, really kicks in. In the space of a few minutes, Stephano's hugely superior economy allows him to jump all the way to 190 food, whereas his opponent, our good friend aFFZlycu, is stuck at something around only 130. Upgrades are going swimmingly and Stephano looks like he is in terrific shape. For good reason: he is!

[image loading]
Fig.5:You have Colossi, you don't need a third


At this point Stephano goes in for the kill. He is up a base and has a much better economy and he continues to put pressure on aFFZlycu's third. He has map vision and map control. If he wants to take 3 more bases, he can. If wants to tech to Brood Lords, he can. If wants to win the game now, he can.

Therein lies the moral of this story review. In ZvP, you absolutely want to consolidate your economy early and prevent your opponent from doing so himself. You do this by taking your own third quickly and harassing, without committing to anything, your opponent. Some strategies are used to win the game outright, such as all-ins or cheese. A "proper" strategy and or/opening is designed to bring you to a point in time where you can obtain an advantage, and use that advantage to "get more ahead", and win the game in the long run.

There are obviously many things that haven't been taken into account in this review, such as Stargate play, 6 or 7 gate all-in, DT, etc. Could Mutalisks offer the map control and vision needed to do this? What about Hydra/Ling, as explained by Day9 in one of his dailies? What about infestors? The list goes on.. but the most important lesson of this review was how to think in a standard ZvP.

The real goal is to deepen the understanding of ZvP, not being right. So please, give your thoughts on this and feel free to disagree with or discuss things I've said. Definitely check out Stephano's replay pack as well! Hope you've enjoyed reading this, for those who have. : )

[image loading]
Fig.6:Automaton: Just doesn't give a f***



*It is a well known fact that Colossi tend to fall over, especially in large numbers. Their balance being sketchy at best.

**I seriously have to scroll up and find this name again whenever I want to type it, which explains my excessive use of the word "Protoss" instead of aFFZlycu's actually name. Sorry mate.

***
maru lover forever
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
February 26 2012 17:36 GMT
#2
Cool write-up - I'll have to check out this game. I've always thought relying on warp prism to harass, although different and a good way to change things up, is generally weaker and harder to get good harass off.
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
February 26 2012 18:09 GMT
#3
Nice analysis, I enjoyed it!
SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
Zylcu
Profile Joined January 2010
Poland3 Posts
February 26 2012 18:14 GMT
#4
'I seriously have to scroll up and find this name again whenever I want to type it, which explains my excessive use of the word "Protoss" instead of aFFZlycu's actually name. Sorry mate.'
hehe no problem bro!
But yea, I`m not P user.
o,O
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
February 27 2012 09:05 GMT
#5
Heh, didn't think one of the players would pop in. ^^ but your P seems awfully decent anyway, so..

glad those who read this enjoyed it.
maru lover forever
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
February 27 2012 11:10 GMT
#6
Cool review, 5/5. When I'm playing ZvP I find that I have to always drone, even under pressure or I just lose.
I must not lose any bases at any cost.
wwww
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 72
StarCraft: Brood War
Larva 526
Killer 413
actioN 324
Leta 148
JulyZerg 94
sorry 53
ToSsGirL 46
Sacsri 27
KwarK 22
soO 22
Dota 2
XcaliburYe738
League of Legends
JimRising 687
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K534
PGG 150
Super Smash Bros
Westballz25
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor158
Other Games
summit1g14131
C9.Mang0302
Mew2King153
KnowMe120
Trikslyr18
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL6735
Other Games
gamesdonequick1359
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH171
• Adnapsc2 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2061
• HappyZerGling133
Other Games
• WagamamaTV559
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
2h 6m
BSL Team A[vengers]
6h 6m
Bonyth vs Paralyze
StRyKeR vs Ample
Safe House 2
9h 6m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 2h
Safe House 2
1d 9h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.