• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:35
CEST 17:35
KST 00:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?93Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!45Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9]
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5836 users

Western vs Eastern Viewpoints on Professionalism

Blogs > terialk
Post a Reply
terialk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States770 Posts
December 28 2011 23:44 GMT
#1
Sorry for my random introspective babble. This has been sitting on my mind ever since the whole controversy broke out, and I still think the majority of fans don't understand why GOM/Koreans reacted the way they did. I will make some generalizations here, but of course there are exceptions to every rule.

Let me preface this to say that I do like Naniwa, and I am a fan of him, so this is not bashing on his character or anything. I want to let more people understand that this is really a difference in cultures, not just single targeting of one player. If another progamer had done the same thing as Naniwa, the consequences would have been the same. I saw many fans after this incident saying they thought that GOM was too harsh on Naniwa well some people, a definite minority, said that it was not harsh enough. Oddly enough, if I compare this to how pop idols are viewed in Korea and America (I am using America since I live here. I cannot speak for Europe although I think it is similar in this regard), I can draw some interesting parallels.

And yes, I did say pop idols! Here, in the US, if some pop idol gets pulled over for drunk driving or there are some naked pictures floating around, people don't really care too much about it. At times, it is even expected that they would do such things. Although they are pop idols, they are not really role models except that we may respect their dancing and singing abilities, but not necessarily how they carry out their lifestyle. We don't expect them to lead model lifestyles as we only expect them to sing and dance well.

On the other hand, Korea has had various cases where a pop idol has been drunk driving, and then all their promotional activities have to be canceled for the next 2-3 months depending on the public backlash. Underage drinking also results in some finger pointing and drugs? Don't even go there! There is a different perception that because you are a pop idol, you really are an idol, a person that people idolize. Koreans expect their pop idols to live model lives, do charitable things, etc. You can't just dance and sing well; you need to act appropriately too.

So now we can start comparing this to how fans view progamers in Korea and in the West. In the West, people say Naniwa has no obligation to play for fans (even though we fund him >.> generalization) since as long as the team doesn't care what he does, it's fine. Of course it's bad for PR, but did it really deserve that much of a punishment from the tournament organizers? As long as his play is good, why should we care so much?

On the other hand, the other Korean fans and progamers find his attitude distinctly unprofessional. What they have the most issue with is that he lacks the ethics of a professional. They think that even if you're already out of the tournament because of group stage play, you should still play for your fans, if not yourself.

In the end, it's a distinct clash of cultures, but so many people fail to realize that. They're all, omg Korean people are so crazy or omg Westerners have no honor. I think we should learn to respect our own cultural differences, just like we do in real life. Anyways, I hope some people get a better understanding of why Koreans interpreted Naniwa's actions the way they did. ^^ Thank you for reading this wall of text if you did

**
"This is not the beginning of an end. Instead, it is the end of a beginning." // Little Sprite Fan :D // Never go full China. // At least NA won at Dota 2.
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
December 29 2011 00:00 GMT
#2
Koreans felt insulted, teamliquid rooting for naniwa didn't feel as insulted; Both very understandable reactions. Gomtv revokes code s invite, teamliquid naniwa fans says too harsh!. I don't see where cultural differences come into play, very predictable reactions if you assume all cultures are the same
Lw247_
Profile Joined December 2011
38 Posts
December 29 2011 00:02 GMT
#3
ehm... why did you make this blog like at this time when it's all finally cooled down..

and btw, i won't go into detail but i could scrap 3/4th of what you've written in that blog.

User was warned for this post
terialk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States770 Posts
December 29 2011 00:08 GMT
#4
On December 29 2011 09:02 Lw247_ wrote:
ehm... why did you make this blog like at this time when it's all finally cooled down..

and btw, i won't go into detail but i could scrap 3/4th of what you've written in that blog.


I made it because it's been sitting on my mind for awhile. I don't really expect many replies or anything, but writing helps me stop thinking about it in real life. And even though you would scrap 3/4th, I'm not writing an article anything. These are just my personal opinions to express so I didn't edit it or anything; just wrote what I thought.
"This is not the beginning of an end. Instead, it is the end of a beginning." // Little Sprite Fan :D // Never go full China. // At least NA won at Dota 2.
dongmydrum
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States139 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 00:11:42
December 29 2011 00:10 GMT
#5
In a way you are correct in saying that Korean celebrities try to look humble/conservative in front of the camera because it is a virtue held in high regard, but it is not like it's something westerners can't understand. Think of Golf or Ice Skating. Can you imagine Tiger Woods or some ice skater dissing their opponents after their game? Not likely right? because that is not the norm in their respective fields. There is another point we have to keep in mind which is Korea had more than a decade of professional esports. So even when we compare SC2 with BW, to become a pro in BW, you need to be licensed by Kespa (I could be wrong though) and there are professional obligations you need to attend to, whereas in SC2, you can just play and participate in any tournament as long as you have good skill.
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
December 29 2011 00:20 GMT
#6
SNSD give other performers full 90 degree bows even if they are younger and newer than them, as a sign of support and camaraderie and respect.

Not sure how that is most relevant but I just like typing SNSD.
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
December 29 2011 00:23 GMT
#7
On December 29 2011 09:02 Lw247_ wrote:
ehm... why did you make this blog like at this time when it's all finally cooled down..

and btw, i won't go into detail but i could scrap 3/4th of what you've written in that blog.


This is his blog, and if he wants to write about his feelings regarding the GOM/naniwa incident, then that is his choice, in how many or few words as he likes. Why would you with a brand new account, come in here and act really disrespectful? Seems pretty dumb to me.

Nice blog OP, I agree that the eastern philosophy is vastly different than what we experience in the west. Sometimes I wish we had more emphasis on respect and professionalism among people that reside here. All too often people would rather tell you to go fuck yourself, than listen to what you are saying and agree with it.
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
December 29 2011 00:26 GMT
#8
Um. I think your comparison is a little weak here, coach. There is a difference between maybe having a questionable personal life, and being unprofessional at your place of work. I didn't follow the controversy, but if what you say about American and Korean culture is true, then it's more likely that Koreans consider StarCraft real work more than Americans do. Therefore it's more offensive. However, I think that even in America if you are unprofessional at your place of work you will be heavily criticized. A singer would not just be able to walk off stage in the middle of their show because they thought the show wasn't important. If this is the comparison we are making.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 00:39:54
December 29 2011 00:37 GMT
#9
On December 29 2011 09:26 Chef wrote:
Um. I think your comparison is a little weak here, coach. There is a difference between maybe having a questionable personal life, and being unprofessional at your place of work. I didn't follow the controversy, but if what you say about American and Korean culture is true, then it's more likely that Koreans consider StarCraft real work more than Americans do. Therefore it's more offensive. However, I think that even in America if you are unprofessional at your place of work you will be heavily criticized. A singer would not just be able to walk off stage in the middle of their show because they thought the show wasn't important. If this is the comparison we are making.


Just to address your example of american singers, there have been quite a few who have walked off stage in the middle of performances due to silly things. (Axel Rose walked off stage 1 time because someone took a picture in the audience, and he didnt want any cameras there. Hank Williams Jr. also walked off stage at the CMT awards not too long ago because he didn't like the way he was singing. Jennifer Lopez also walked off stage 1 time when she got too emotional while singing One,Love. Apparently it reminded her too much of her ex's)
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
December 29 2011 00:41 GMT
#10
I've never heard of them. Can you elaborate on the consequences they faced, if any?
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Humanfails
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
224 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 01:27:00
December 29 2011 01:23 GMT
#11
Man, you guys should really just grab a copy of the anthropological book "The silent language". It's really edifying, will puit to rest the whole reason why this went down, and you'll learn a lot extra. It talks about all this stuff. Sorry to plug it, I just found it invaluable for understanding how things work in different countries. its actually area specific, which is cool.

Which is why all that talk of different cultures respecting different cultures is bull. Its a nice white lie, but we still hold people to our own standard. thats as true cross civilization as with personal interaction, and since everyone has a unique set of standards, people will always be judging and hating each other. It's what stops true "tolerance" from being a realized and actual standard in the world.
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 01:24:57
December 29 2011 01:23 GMT
#12
Just to chime in @Chef, eXigent. :

I know of Pete Doherty (Babyshambles frontman) just being totally wasted on stage and aborting running concerts as well as cancelling them on very short notice. Same goes for Amy Winehouse.

It is (was) not a usual thing to happen but something a fan had to expect. There was never any (noticeable) outcry about professionalism but that's mostly because their music always had the feel of being written or being performed the best in a drug-induced state. Other examples would be Johnny Cash or Jimi Hendrix, not being innocent in that regard either.

In the creative arts, alcohol and drugs seem like an accepted excuse for non-professionalism as boundaries and rules are considered detrimental to the process of creativity. This however shouldn't translate to sports.
Always smile~
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
December 29 2011 01:27 GMT
#13
lol "i can destroy your argument, but i don't want to go into detail" oh if only this worked in university..
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
polishedturd
Profile Joined October 2010
United States505 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 03:22:44
December 29 2011 03:18 GMT
#14
On December 29 2011 10:27 Endymion wrote:
lol "i can destroy your argument, but i don't want to go into detail" oh if only this worked in university..


haha fucking seriously. the whole gom/naniwa thing is a nonissue to me right now, but that post irritated the shit out of me
http://i.imgur.com/EbrnM.jpg
Lw247_
Profile Joined December 2011
38 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 08:40:04
December 29 2011 08:39 GMT
#15
On December 29 2011 09:23 eXigent. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 09:02 Lw247_ wrote:
ehm... why did you make this blog like at this time when it's all finally cooled down..

and btw, i won't go into detail but i could scrap 3/4th of what you've written in that blog.


This is his blog, and if he wants to write about his feelings regarding the GOM/naniwa incident, then that is his choice, in how many or few words as he likes. Why would you with a brand new account, come in here and act really disrespectful? Seems pretty dumb to me.

Nice blog OP, I agree that the eastern philosophy is vastly different than what we experience in the west. Sometimes I wish we had more emphasis on respect and professionalism among people that reside here. All too often people would rather tell you to go fuck yourself, than listen to what you are saying and agree with it.



there's a difference between speaking your mind & being plain disrespectful, people don't seem to get that.
Angel_
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1617 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-29 10:31:40
December 29 2011 10:30 GMT
#16
grats on reinforcing the idea that western culture, sorry...American culture (since you live here) just has dumbed down standards. thank you. really.


especially when it's already been talked about to death.
Humanfails
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
224 Posts
December 29 2011 17:21 GMT
#17
On December 29 2011 17:39 Lw247_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2011 09:23 eXigent. wrote:
On December 29 2011 09:02 Lw247_ wrote:
ehm... why did you make this blog like at this time when it's all finally cooled down..

and btw, i won't go into detail but i could scrap 3/4th of what you've written in that blog.


This is his blog, and if he wants to write about his feelings regarding the GOM/naniwa incident, then that is his choice, in how many or few words as he likes. Why would you with a brand new account, come in here and act really disrespectful? Seems pretty dumb to me.

Nice blog OP, I agree that the eastern philosophy is vastly different than what we experience in the west. Sometimes I wish we had more emphasis on respect and professionalism among people that reside here. All too often people would rather tell you to go fuck yourself, than listen to what you are saying and agree with it.



there's a difference between speaking your mind & being plain disrespectful, people don't seem to get that.


well, wjhen it become s disrespectful to speak your mind, I guess your world makes sense.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 1447
Lowko504
SHIN 173
Trap 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5017
Mini 613
hero 288
Light 288
Zeus 218
Stork 192
Soulkey 136
soO 118
Snow 102
Sea.KH 101
[ Show more ]
Barracks 100
ToSsGirL 80
Yoon 63
Hyun 53
PianO 45
Mong 38
Sharp 35
Terrorterran 21
Sacsri 15
Shine 15
scan(afreeca) 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Shuttle 1
Britney 0
Dota 2
qojqva3784
Dendi1718
syndereN569
BananaSlamJamma346
Counter-Strike
ScreaM500
x6flipin330
Other Games
singsing1686
Liquid`RaSZi1386
hiko989
B2W.Neo930
Liquid`VortiX263
Hui .237
crisheroes235
ArmadaUGS188
Rex61
Trikslyr29
ceh90
Organizations
Other Games
WardiTV370
BasetradeTV71
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 13
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile133
• Gemini_19 27
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV607
League of Legends
• Nemesis2132
Other Games
• Shiphtur78
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
25m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 25m
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
19h 25m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Escore
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
5 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.