• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:04
CEST 17:04
KST 00:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo14Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted J188 – Nhà Cái Cá Cược Trực Tuyến Đẳng Cấp Châu Á Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL CK #4 20-21th June Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10317 users

What does the size of Warlock's staff represent?

Blogs > LINKDotA
Post a Reply
LINKDotA
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 21:19:54
November 12 2011 20:14 GMT
#1
I was queueing for game as usual when a girl or/and guy wrote me on mIRC. He/+she said;
"Hey Link. I am new to dota, which hero should I practice?"
At first I was actually amused by this question because I thought that the question was pretty stupid since in dota you need to be able to play a large number of heroes. After I had given the question some thought I found to be a very topical question since a lot of people who never played DotA is starting along with the release of DotA 2 and they need some guidelines to get started!

I wanted to give a specific and direct answer and therefor gave the question days of thought and finally coming up with my conclusion: If you are playing competitive DotA your opponents have 5 bans, split up into 3 bans after 2 bans afterwards. Let us imagine a team consisting for 5 lazy persons, who want to see results as fast as possible, how many heroes do they need to practice each? As you only have 3 bans before you do the first 3 picks in dota, theorically three players from your team only have to master 4 heroes! Going down this road of thinking I would suggest it to be the utility/iniciator-player, the support-player and the offlane-player, since the heroepool for theese types of roles are not as big as for carry/solo mid in my oppinion. Keep in mind that this particulary team is only playing 1-1-3 strategies to simplify it. Being one hero in the offlane, one hero solomid, and last three heroes as a safelane trilane. Let us keep digging down this path and bring up some examples. Let us imagine that theese guys were pretty smart, and they chose the support-player, the offlane-player and the utility-player to be the ones that only practiced 4 heroes each. Which heroes should they choose? For claryfying matters let us summon the letters of a possible herochoice:
The offlaneplayer could choose: Puck - Windrunner - Broodmother - Potm
The supportplayer could choose: Crystal Maiden - Venge - Chen - Lich
The utilityplayer could choose: Earthshaker - Tidehunter - Enigma - Darkseer
Now theese 3 players have chosen which heroes they want to practice in order for their team to be succesful as fast as possbile.

So what about the remaining solomid-player and carryplayer? Yes, their road will be a bit tougher! The first 3 heroes are already picked and the opponent now have 2 additional bans. That means that both the carryplayer and the solomid-player from the team have to practice a minimum of 6 heroes in total each to make sure that they have a hero, which they master, in every single game, no matter what.

Let us again summon the letters of a possible choice of heroes, in order to fully understand the geniousness about this strategy:
The solomid-player could choose: Storm spirit - Furion - Lion - Ancient Apparition - Beastmaster - Omni
The carryplayer could choose: Anti-mage - Morph - Void - Spectre - Balanar - Slardar
Now all 5 players from team-lazy have chosen enough heroes so each one of them have a hero, they master, which they can get no matter which heroes are banned from the opposing team. This is as soon as the three first picks are reserved for the offlane-, the utility- and the support-player. (which is reasonable).

So lets pick two random lineups that could occur choosing theese 24 heroes in total, places down upon 5 players the way as we described earlier. Would the lineups be any good? To answer this question I will pick two testlineups that could occur in a very real game cosisting of theese 24 heroes, places down upon 5 players with 5 different roles.

Testlineup 1, I pick the first hero I wrote down for each player:

Puck - Crystal Maiden - Earthshaker - Storm Spirit - Antimage
Pretty scary lineup eh? Still not convinced? Okay let us try it again.

Testlineup 2, this time we pick backwards, first player we take the last one, second player we take the second last one and so forth and we end up with:
Potm - Chen - Tidehunter - Lion - Morph

Again a lineup with a lot of options!

Now try to create a lineup yourself!

Yesterday my team and I officially became members of the organisation, SK-gaming* and we cannot wait to attend to our first lan under the organisation.

We are going to drive to the land of swedes by car, and therefor the trip will be the first DotA 2 SK-gaming ROADTRIP!
I hope I can somehow lend an iphone by a friend so I can take a lot of pictures and blog about the roadtrip on the way as well as the event when we arrive! :-P

I have been streaming some other games than DotA 2 along the way and yesterday I decided from now on I will ONLY stream DotA 2 so everyone can expect what to see when they tune in on my stream! If you do not like this decision, or more like, if many people do not like this decision (including you!) drop a comment about it and I might take it back!

I have renewed most of my link's (haha) from my previous post and I will therefor post them again:

facebook: www.facebook.com/LINKDotA
twitter: www.twitter.com/LINKDotA
stream: www.own3d.tv/LINKDotA

Sincerly, SK.Link


*****
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
November 12 2011 20:22 GMT
#2
thanks for the tips, very useful! congrats on your pickup btw.

I have a question - you are assuming a 1-1-3 lineup, but most often in pubs people are married to the thought of 2-1-2. what kind of heroes have the best, or worst, transfer from 2-1-2 learning to 1-1-3 use? just using the categories you chose above (utility/initiator, carry, offlane, etc) would be fine.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
Wrongspeedy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1655 Posts
November 12 2011 20:50 GMT
#3
Omg thank you so much this will be so helpful. Should this maybe go in the dota2 section? Seems like a great bit info we wouldn't want lost in the Blogs : )
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
November 12 2011 20:51 GMT
#4
Nice to see you post here, cool stuff

It can be a little frustrating trying to wrap your head around how the dynamics of a 1-1-3 lineup work while pubbing as you're almost always forced into 2-1-2 -_-
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
November 12 2011 20:54 GMT
#5
My staff is a good one.
WriterXiao8~~
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
November 12 2011 21:03 GMT
#6
Nahh heyoka just go "okay we're trilaning bot, let the carry farm" and then you have somebody on your side.

Plus you get people who want to solo top or something and enjoy being rambo.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
LINKDotA
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark31 Posts
November 12 2011 21:31 GMT
#7
On November 13 2011 05:22 Antoine wrote:
thanks for the tips, very useful! congrats on your pickup btw.

I have a question - you are assuming a 1-1-3 lineup, but most often in pubs people are married to the thought of 2-1-2. what kind of heroes have the best, or worst, transfer from 2-1-2 learning to 1-1-3 use? just using the categories you chose above (utility/initiator, carry, offlane, etc) would be fine.


The categories I listed nor the picks doesnt change when you go 2-1-2, i simply gave the example of 3-1-1 to simplify things. If you go 2-1-2 you just put your support or iniciator together with your offlane. Like if your offlane is potm, lich support is very good with him. And then you can have an iniciator like tidehunter with a range carry bot. Ask again if you have more questions!
LINKDotA
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 21:32:38
November 12 2011 21:32 GMT
#8
On November 13 2011 05:51 heyoka wrote:
Nice to see you post here, cool stuff

It can be a little frustrating trying to wrap your head around how the dynamics of a 1-1-3 lineup work while pubbing as you're almost always forced into 2-1-2 -_-


Also keep in mind that my post was designed to new players who want to go real dota as in a 5 man lineup with friends against another team consisting for 5 players that also know eachother. This way they can get decent pretty quickly if they dont have to learn +40 heroes first.
CountChocula
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2068 Posts
November 12 2011 22:48 GMT
#9
I see what you did thar with the thread title.
Writer我会让他们连馒头都吃不到 Those championships owed me over the years, I will take them back one by one.
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
November 12 2011 22:51 GMT
#10
I played WoW too much. I thought this was about WoW Warlocks
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
November 13 2011 02:20 GMT
#11
This is a nice dota post. I came to the same conclusion leading my old team in leagues but it took me a year or so to realize it.
Also formed the opinion that the ultimate dota team you can hope for is as many people as possible to be able to be elite in as many roles as possible.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
12:00
GSL CK #4 (PTR) - Day 1
Solar vs ClemLIVE!
SHIN 983
IntoTheiNu 454
CranKy Ducklings SOOP257
Rex45
Liquipedia
WardiTV Spring Champion…
11:00
Playoffs
WardiTV1015
TaKeTV 469
TKL 311
IndyStarCraft 178
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SHIN 983
TKL 311
IndyStarCraft 178
Rex 45
BRAT_OK 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 47598
Mini 2386
Horang2 810
Zeus 527
firebathero 432
Hyuk 425
ggaemo 290
actioN 269
BeSt 208
Leta 136
[ Show more ]
Mong 115
Hyun 102
Pusan 63
Movie 55
ToSsGirL 38
Barracks 35
910 32
scan(afreeca) 30
Aegong 23
JYJ 19
Sacsri 17
JulyZerg 17
Shine 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Rock 11
Dota 2
XaKoH 422
420jenkins341
BananaSlamJamma220
Counter-Strike
fl0m7028
byalli464
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor376
Other Games
gofns36933
tarik_tv9457
singsing2608
B2W.Neo969
Mlord563
Lowko528
crisheroes335
DeMusliM70
KnowMe64
Trikslyr32
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV796
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Response 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2522
• Nemesis2081
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 1662
Upcoming Events
IPSL
56m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
3h 56m
XuanXuan vs Jaystar
Mihu vs Messiah
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs Jaystar
TerrOr vs Messiah
XuanXuan vs Mihu
eOnzErG vs Jaystar
Replay Cast
8h 56m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
19h 56m
GSL
20h 56m
IPSL
1d
Hawk vs Julia
Patches Events
1d 1h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 3h
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
1d 8h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.