• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:16
CEST 01:16
KST 08:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments1[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes128BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues
Tourneys
KSL Week 80 Stellar Fest StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Diplomacy, Cosmonarchy Edition ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2137 users

What does the size of Warlock's staff represent?

Blogs > LINKDotA
Post a Reply
LINKDotA
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 21:19:54
November 12 2011 20:14 GMT
#1
I was queueing for game as usual when a girl or/and guy wrote me on mIRC. He/+she said;
"Hey Link. I am new to dota, which hero should I practice?"
At first I was actually amused by this question because I thought that the question was pretty stupid since in dota you need to be able to play a large number of heroes. After I had given the question some thought I found to be a very topical question since a lot of people who never played DotA is starting along with the release of DotA 2 and they need some guidelines to get started!

I wanted to give a specific and direct answer and therefor gave the question days of thought and finally coming up with my conclusion: If you are playing competitive DotA your opponents have 5 bans, split up into 3 bans after 2 bans afterwards. Let us imagine a team consisting for 5 lazy persons, who want to see results as fast as possible, how many heroes do they need to practice each? As you only have 3 bans before you do the first 3 picks in dota, theorically three players from your team only have to master 4 heroes! Going down this road of thinking I would suggest it to be the utility/iniciator-player, the support-player and the offlane-player, since the heroepool for theese types of roles are not as big as for carry/solo mid in my oppinion. Keep in mind that this particulary team is only playing 1-1-3 strategies to simplify it. Being one hero in the offlane, one hero solomid, and last three heroes as a safelane trilane. Let us keep digging down this path and bring up some examples. Let us imagine that theese guys were pretty smart, and they chose the support-player, the offlane-player and the utility-player to be the ones that only practiced 4 heroes each. Which heroes should they choose? For claryfying matters let us summon the letters of a possible herochoice:
The offlaneplayer could choose: Puck - Windrunner - Broodmother - Potm
The supportplayer could choose: Crystal Maiden - Venge - Chen - Lich
The utilityplayer could choose: Earthshaker - Tidehunter - Enigma - Darkseer
Now theese 3 players have chosen which heroes they want to practice in order for their team to be succesful as fast as possbile.

So what about the remaining solomid-player and carryplayer? Yes, their road will be a bit tougher! The first 3 heroes are already picked and the opponent now have 2 additional bans. That means that both the carryplayer and the solomid-player from the team have to practice a minimum of 6 heroes in total each to make sure that they have a hero, which they master, in every single game, no matter what.

Let us again summon the letters of a possible choice of heroes, in order to fully understand the geniousness about this strategy:
The solomid-player could choose: Storm spirit - Furion - Lion - Ancient Apparition - Beastmaster - Omni
The carryplayer could choose: Anti-mage - Morph - Void - Spectre - Balanar - Slardar
Now all 5 players from team-lazy have chosen enough heroes so each one of them have a hero, they master, which they can get no matter which heroes are banned from the opposing team. This is as soon as the three first picks are reserved for the offlane-, the utility- and the support-player. (which is reasonable).

So lets pick two random lineups that could occur choosing theese 24 heroes in total, places down upon 5 players the way as we described earlier. Would the lineups be any good? To answer this question I will pick two testlineups that could occur in a very real game cosisting of theese 24 heroes, places down upon 5 players with 5 different roles.

Testlineup 1, I pick the first hero I wrote down for each player:

Puck - Crystal Maiden - Earthshaker - Storm Spirit - Antimage
Pretty scary lineup eh? Still not convinced? Okay let us try it again.

Testlineup 2, this time we pick backwards, first player we take the last one, second player we take the second last one and so forth and we end up with:
Potm - Chen - Tidehunter - Lion - Morph

Again a lineup with a lot of options!

Now try to create a lineup yourself!

Yesterday my team and I officially became members of the organisation, SK-gaming* and we cannot wait to attend to our first lan under the organisation.

We are going to drive to the land of swedes by car, and therefor the trip will be the first DotA 2 SK-gaming ROADTRIP!
I hope I can somehow lend an iphone by a friend so I can take a lot of pictures and blog about the roadtrip on the way as well as the event when we arrive! :-P

I have been streaming some other games than DotA 2 along the way and yesterday I decided from now on I will ONLY stream DotA 2 so everyone can expect what to see when they tune in on my stream! If you do not like this decision, or more like, if many people do not like this decision (including you!) drop a comment about it and I might take it back!

I have renewed most of my link's (haha) from my previous post and I will therefor post them again:

facebook: www.facebook.com/LINKDotA
twitter: www.twitter.com/LINKDotA
stream: www.own3d.tv/LINKDotA

Sincerly, SK.Link


*****
Antoine
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States7481 Posts
November 12 2011 20:22 GMT
#2
thanks for the tips, very useful! congrats on your pickup btw.

I have a question - you are assuming a 1-1-3 lineup, but most often in pubs people are married to the thought of 2-1-2. what kind of heroes have the best, or worst, transfer from 2-1-2 learning to 1-1-3 use? just using the categories you chose above (utility/initiator, carry, offlane, etc) would be fine.
ModeratorFlash Sea Action Snow Midas | TheStC Ret Tyler MC | RIP 우정호
Wrongspeedy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1655 Posts
November 12 2011 20:50 GMT
#3
Omg thank you so much this will be so helpful. Should this maybe go in the dota2 section? Seems like a great bit info we wouldn't want lost in the Blogs : )
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
November 12 2011 20:51 GMT
#4
Nice to see you post here, cool stuff

It can be a little frustrating trying to wrap your head around how the dynamics of a 1-1-3 lineup work while pubbing as you're almost always forced into 2-1-2 -_-
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
November 12 2011 20:54 GMT
#5
My staff is a good one.
WriterXiao8~~
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
November 12 2011 21:03 GMT
#6
Nahh heyoka just go "okay we're trilaning bot, let the carry farm" and then you have somebody on your side.

Plus you get people who want to solo top or something and enjoy being rambo.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
LINKDotA
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark31 Posts
November 12 2011 21:31 GMT
#7
On November 13 2011 05:22 Antoine wrote:
thanks for the tips, very useful! congrats on your pickup btw.

I have a question - you are assuming a 1-1-3 lineup, but most often in pubs people are married to the thought of 2-1-2. what kind of heroes have the best, or worst, transfer from 2-1-2 learning to 1-1-3 use? just using the categories you chose above (utility/initiator, carry, offlane, etc) would be fine.


The categories I listed nor the picks doesnt change when you go 2-1-2, i simply gave the example of 3-1-1 to simplify things. If you go 2-1-2 you just put your support or iniciator together with your offlane. Like if your offlane is potm, lich support is very good with him. And then you can have an iniciator like tidehunter with a range carry bot. Ask again if you have more questions!
LINKDotA
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 21:32:38
November 12 2011 21:32 GMT
#8
On November 13 2011 05:51 heyoka wrote:
Nice to see you post here, cool stuff

It can be a little frustrating trying to wrap your head around how the dynamics of a 1-1-3 lineup work while pubbing as you're almost always forced into 2-1-2 -_-


Also keep in mind that my post was designed to new players who want to go real dota as in a 5 man lineup with friends against another team consisting for 5 players that also know eachother. This way they can get decent pretty quickly if they dont have to learn +40 heroes first.
CountChocula
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2068 Posts
November 12 2011 22:48 GMT
#9
I see what you did thar with the thread title.
Writer我会让他们连馒头都吃不到 Those championships owed me over the years, I will take them back one by one.
Linwelin
Profile Joined March 2011
Ireland7554 Posts
November 12 2011 22:51 GMT
#10
I played WoW too much. I thought this was about WoW Warlocks
Fuck Razor and Death Prophet
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
November 13 2011 02:20 GMT
#11
This is a nice dota post. I came to the same conclusion leading my old team in leagues but it took me a year or so to realize it.
Also formed the opinion that the ultimate dota team you can hope for is as many people as possible to be able to be elite in as many roles as possible.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 164
Nathanias 141
ZombieGrub122
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14308
LaStScan 120
NaDa 31
League of Legends
Trikslyr59
JimRising 54
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_39
Super Smash Bros
Westballz4
Other Games
summit1g8801
FrodaN3368
Grubby3308
gofns3015
Sick165
C9.Mang0136
ViBE112
Maynarde111
KnowMe104
XaKoH 96
ToD69
PPMD31
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick391
StarCraft 2
angryscii 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 72
• Sammyuel 69
• davetesta23
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 26
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4506
Other Games
• Scarra995
• imaqtpie896
• Shiphtur234
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
3h 44m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
8h 44m
RSL Revival
10h 44m
Reynor vs Cure
TBD vs Zoun
OSC
21h 44m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 8h
RSL Revival
1d 10h
Classic vs TBD
Online Event
1d 16h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.