• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:08
CET 11:08
KST 19:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !
Tourneys
uThermal 2v2 Circuit OSC Season 13 World Championship WardiTV Mondays $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays I would like to say something about StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Empty tournaments section on Liquipedia A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! General RTS Discussion Thread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1396 users

In search of the arena

Blogs > Supcraft.Rez
Post a Reply
mindjames
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Israel433 Posts
November 11 2011 08:16 GMT
#1
I miss the old times.



Back in 2000, my older brother sent me to the PC store to buy him the original Unreal Tournament. He said it's supposed to be this amazing shooting game with incredible graphics and support for 3DFX (good times). I personally wasn't interested in FPS games and decided to get Diablo II for myself while I'm there.

It didn't even take a month before I realized D2 was a waste of precious time in which I could be shooting people online. (not bashing, chill )

UT grabbed Israel in the nuts unlike any other game in history (with the exception of Counter Strike) and the local community was literally booming. I've met so many amazing personalities with which I'm good friends with to this day, and have very fond memories from the game from LANs and whatnot. I believe any hardcore gamer in his 20s can relate.

I've played the game until ~2006 (even after the release of the next two games in the series, which were just not as good) and from then on I've been playing on and off because of my military service, the dying-down of the community and the decrease in tournaments.

UT99 is dead.



Once I finished my service, I've been on the hunt for a new, exciting FPS. It has since been 3 years, and this is what I found:

* CS, COD, MW, Halo. Huge communities. Huge tournaments. Incredibly dull and one dimensional gameplay in comparison to Arena shooters. Yes, I'm bashing.

* Quake Live. This is a super fun game. Only problem with it? HUGE skill ceiling and no newbies to be found. No one plays this game if they haven't played Quake 3 Arena. 0 community, 0 tournaments.

* Warsow. Based on Quake 2 engine. Exact same problem as Quake Live.

And so, I was left with no other choice but to try something completely different. I obviously didn't want to get an RPG because of the inherent imbalances and uncompetitiveness.

I found Starcraft. Obviously an RTS. Fortunately I decided to give it a go anyway because it seemed to have the Esports magic in it. I'm so glad I did.



But I'm still waiting for Epic, Id, or any other software developer to come out with a new Esports-worthy arena shooter. I've taken the liberty to list out the ingredients for such a game:

1. Diversity in weapons:

* Every weapon serves a different purpose. Once you get into a certain situation, you either have to switch to a specific weapon in order to defend yourself/hit your opponent, or, if you don't have it, you just gotta run the hell outta there. This opens up possibilities for map positioning tactics and creates tension points around weapon pickups.

* Not all weapons are instant (sniper-like). Actually, since people have become so good at aiming with the mouse, having more than a couple of these guns in a game is going to award mediocre players who can only aim well, and this obviously lowers the skill ceiling and frustrates the thinking player. Good aiming should obviously be awarded, but the overall arsenal of weapons has to be balanced.

* Some weapons require prediction abilities. Newer players will often mistake this for "randomly spamming everywhere", but an experienced player will know where to send his rockets when he sees his opponent going through the portal/behind the corner/etc., and apart from that, recognizing the opponent's movement pattern becomes an important skill to master.

2. Tricky, fast paced movement:

* Bunny-hopping was always the trademark of the competitive FPS scene, and for a good reason. In Unreal you had dodging, in Quake you had the mind-blowingly hard to master strafe-jumping, and there have been more variations of these. Jumping adds another dimension to movement and gives adept players a good edge.

* Overall fast game speed is essential. I swear, when I see Halo progamers "walk" it makes me cringe. If the weapons are lightning-fast, your character should be lightning-fast as well. This opens up the possibilities for endlessly more exciting combat, with players constantly having to dodge attacks from all angles, instead of just having people shoot straight forward across the map.

3. Accessibility & attractiveness, without compromising competition:

* A game like this should definitely have a skill tier system, and if possible, matchmaking (a-la SC2, QuakeLive). This is a no-brainer. Let the casuals play with the casuals, let the pros play with the pros. Everyone's happy.

* The game should feel reasonably fresh. This means up-to-date graphics and solid physics. If you want a game to become an Esport, it has to draw attention from the casuals in the first place.

* The gameplay mechanics are the most important aspect of the game, and none of it should ever be toned down or dumbed down in order to work better with any concept of realism/fiction/lore. Esports should be about fun and competition, not storytelling.

* Everyone should be able to play on equal terms. No one should be able to level up or unlock a personal boost. No one should EVER gain an advantage from a micro-transfer. You simply have to try and become a better player.

4. Community focus:

* One thing that made Unreal so exciting was the relative ease of making maps and modding. The modding community was so excited with the engine, they literally created an incredible amount of completely new games on it.

* Patching, support, forums. Customizability of character and team support are a big bonus.



Many of the aspects I've listed above can be applied to RTS, for you Starcraft veterans. I for one don't like the fact that some of Starcraft's lore gets in the way of game design. In my opinion it's also never going to be completely balanced. But one thing is for sure; it's fun, and it's competitive.

I just hope I find a game as good as the old arena shooters some day. Starcraft kind of good.
I believe.

Rez

*****
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10827 Posts
November 11 2011 13:11 GMT
#2
Bite the apple and "learn" to Quake-Live?

I mean.. Even a new Quake will have all these hardcore Ego-Shooter players come in and rape everyone.
+there won't be many casuals in a fast arena style shooter.. becuase... If it's fast it needs skill
mindjames
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Israel433 Posts
November 11 2011 13:38 GMT
#3
That's why I stated it should have skill tiers and matchmaking.
You wouldn't believe how casual UT and Quake used to be.
chaosTheory_14cc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1270 Posts
November 11 2011 14:59 GMT
#4
I'd recommend you stick to Quake Live and just "get better", because to be quite honest there is very little to no choice in shooters these days. They're all the same and tend to really be catered toward the casual crowd. So yeah, if you want a FPS, stick to Quake.
mindjames
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Israel433 Posts
November 11 2011 15:12 GMT
#5
I do play Quake Live from time to time. It's a great game. What I'm saying is that it's already "dried out" in terms of Esports/crowd/tournaments. It's basically dead.
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
November 11 2011 16:40 GMT
#6
I find your analysis of a competitive Arena shooter very nice and I have to agree. I love watching Quake (never been that good at it though) because of the mentioned qualities it has. But what do you mean by "solid physics"? Something like destructible environements?
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
djWHEAT
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States925 Posts
November 14 2011 19:12 GMT
#7
I miss the old times too. But I do admit that StarCraft fills a very specific hole in the form of competition. It may not be like strafe jumping into a beautiful rail shot for a frag... but the feeling of winning is very much the same to me. Although I would love to see the "next" eSports DM FPS, I think QuakeLive still brings an incredible game to the table for newbies and pros alike.

The big hurdle like you said is not much community, but that does seem to still be alive and the potential for another "generation" of growth is high. I honestly think it just needs someone behind it. If someone stepped up and created a "newbie"/bronze level tournament system... it could be really successful. Alas, I'm not sure anyone has stepped up to that challenge.
OneMoreGame.tv // Weapon Of Choice // Kings Of Tin // Inside The Game // Live On Three
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #67
CranKy Ducklings136
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 99
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2743
Larva 456
BeSt 425
Hyuk 379
actioN 340
Leta 305
Jaedong 239
Zeus 193
Killer 169
Hyun 128
[ Show more ]
Sharp 111
Rush 103
ggaemo 101
Pusan 69
Mong 57
Aegong 56
NotJumperer 32
soO 27
yabsab 24
Nal_rA 24
Bale 20
JulyZerg 13
Terrorterran 12
Dota 2
XaKoH 679
NeuroSwarm91
League of Legends
JimRising 619
C9.Mang0554
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss841
Super Smash Bros
Westballz34
Other Games
summit1g9591
singsing1457
olofmeister758
crisheroes180
Pyrionflax155
BRAT_OK 12
MindelVK4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick26913
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 52m
RotterdaM Event
7h 22m
Patches Events
9h 52m
PiGosaur Cup
14h 52m
OSC
1d 1h
SOOP
1d 17h
OSC
2 days
OSC
3 days
SOOP
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
6 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 21
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.