• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:00
CET 21:00
KST 05:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !5Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1150 users

Korea vs the foreign scene

Blogs > vnlegend
Post a Reply
vnlegend
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1389 Posts
May 06 2011 22:32 GMT
#1
Watching the recent GSL code A finals made me realize something. Here were two extremely good players battling it out for a seat among the code S weaklings. These players are rightfully the top players in Korea (as of this moment) and they're still in code A?

It's not as bad as it sounds. The starleague system in Korea is one based on merit. You have to be good in order to win. And to win a starleague, you have to extremely good, consistent, and even lucky. So yea, Mvp was good, but he had some bad performances/slump and got demoted pretty quickly. The same thing with Bomber, he was known to be good but couldn't qualify or get through code A until now. You have to be good and you have to deliver results when it matters.

This is what makes it so much more epic. Instead of Idra being auto-invited and seeded to a billion tournaments, winning or losing some tourneys means nothing to him. It’s just a way to make money wherever he can. In the GSL however, it’s like Charles Martel, King of France, defending Europe from the Muslim invasion. You have this one moment, one battle where everything is on the line. You fall and it’s all over. For Idra, he just goes to the next tourney that he was invited to. For Mvp, he has to go home, regroup and wait for the next season.

[image loading]


Korea's starleagues are cruel. Fan favorites fall all the time. Even if you have the potential to be really good, bad performances or blunders will still end your run. This isn't entirely bad because it's a competitive system. Heroes will fall, to be replaced by new challengers who will be the future heroes.

The same cannot be said for foreigner tournaments. The SC2 Tournaments forum is full of new foreigner leagues and tournaments. Guess what? I see basically the same players invited to pretty much all of them. A player can get famous/popular and basically ride his way to invitationals/show matches. I’m not saying these players aren’t good. But the whole invite thing basically gives them free rides and creates a huge barrier of entry for newcomers. Bisu would’ve never had the chance to face and defeat Savior. Instead Kingdom or some old guard Protoss player would’ve been invited and predictably lose.

[image loading]


It seems to me like the esports competitive spirit lives in Korea. Many foreigner tournaments are just trying to cash in on the popularly of SC2, its player's popularity, or trying to push products on consumers. This is why for me none of the foreign tournaments can compare to the GSL. The competitiveness of the GSL will give rise to far superior players.

*****
Marines > everything
hifriend
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
China7935 Posts
May 06 2011 22:41 GMT
#2
I gotta say, I don't really envy the players competing in korea at all. You must have balls of steel to go up on that stage and deliver, and you're always just a couple of mistakes away from falling out of code S or the tournament entirely. Meanwhile GSL is everything they have over there so practically every waking hour of every day is focused on succeeding in that tournament. It's fucking brutal.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 22:45:25
May 06 2011 22:45 GMT
#3
On May 07 2011 07:41 hifriend wrote:
I gotta say, I don't really envy the players competing in korea at all. You must have balls of steel to go up on that stage and deliver, and you're always just a couple of mistakes away from falling out of code S or the tournament entirely. Meanwhile GSL is everything they have over there so practically every waking hour of every day is focused on succeeding in that tournament. It's fucking brutal.


Most important, since there are basically no other tournaments within Korea itself and only a fraction of the people(only TSL afaik, maybe Slayers) get salaries.
WriterXiao8~~
Lyter
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2145 Posts
May 06 2011 22:49 GMT
#4
not getting salaries isn't rly a huge problem when everything is paid for them
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
May 06 2011 22:53 GMT
#5
On May 07 2011 07:49 Lyter wrote:
not getting salaries isn't rly a huge problem when everything is paid for them


It isn't? ST_July mentioned that he needed to win a tournament quickly because he was basically living off his GSL earnings at that time. I doubt that anything but the basics are sponsored for them.
WriterXiao8~~
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-06 23:13:53
May 06 2011 23:11 GMT
#6
1. IdrA is invited to a lot of tourneys, which fuels this invite cycle, but you have to remember that he is good. There are better examples than him for the retarded invite system.
2. There are a ton of tourneys every week for the unknowns to make a name for themselves. Spanishiwa came from nowhere and look at his fame now. Also, the TSL did a great job of giving these unknowns a chance to shine.
3. Korea is better right now because the entire esports scene has been established in one city. If the foreign scene were centralized like that, there would definitely be a GSL equivalent.
Hates Fun🤔
legaton
Profile Joined December 2010
France1763 Posts
May 06 2011 23:54 GMT
#7
I agree with the OP. The foreign scene is divided between mercenaries and entertainers. Mercenaries are the small minority of good players, abusing the lack of quality of the foreign scene to reap a much money as possible on huge and sometime small tournament. Idra is a good example of it: good player who hates SC2 (at least, he has stated a lot of times the SC2 is "not fun" and that BW was a better game/show) staying in the scene for the money.

Most of the other players are entertainers. They may win a small tournament from time to time thanks to the volatility of the game, but most of time they will just fall in the initial brackets. Therefore, they abuse gimmicks and strange builds/timings to a) win the occasional game against better players b)win new followers to their stream as ads become their n°1 source of income; but even if they don't get money, at least they become popular. Minigun or Spanishiwa are good examples: great personality, a nice build for Spanishiwa and zero results (small "show-match" against handpicked opponents don't count).

Of course, sports have a lot to do with money and entertainment, but they are more than that. Sports are about competition and about huge stakes. "Losing" doesn't matter in the foreign scene as there's always a new tournament around. In Korea at least, you know they are under pressure.
No GG, No Skill - Jaedong <3
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
May 06 2011 23:56 GMT
#8
Paper, what you're saying makes a lot of sense too, haha.

Personally I'm just on the fact that the Koreans still only really have one tournament (THAT WE KNOW OF) and thus it must be much rougher if you get crushed... whereas in the rest of the world, we can just go from tourny to tourny where winning one and losing the other isn't AS big of a deal because we'll have sponsors and more chances to win big.
kiss kiss fall in love
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
May 07 2011 00:02 GMT
#9
Yep, once you strike gold in the foreigner scene, you are set for lyfe y0. auto-invited into every tourney ever.
Sup
youngminii
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia7514 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 00:12:36
May 07 2011 00:10 GMT
#10
???

I thought Korea has smaller tournaments other than GSL?

Also, I don't think foreign tournaments are denying access for newcomers at all. There are seeded players and there are qualifiers for foreign tournaments all the time.
lalala
Kralic
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2628 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 00:11:12
May 07 2011 00:10 GMT
#11
The only way to get to the point of Korea. is to promote the scene in your own country and have the competition be from your country for the majority of the players. You will not have the best competition right off the bat but a lot of players will be "homegrown". It centralizes players more and then once or twice a year you can have a world championship tourney with whoever won the most out of their respective regions.

This will take a lot longer but the scene will be stronger in the future.
Brood War forever!
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
May 07 2011 00:13 GMT
#12
On May 07 2011 09:10 youngminii wrote:
???

I thought Korea has smaller tournaments other than GSL?


No, because Blizzard gave GomTV exlusive rights to Starcraft 2, hence each tournament will have to have the permission of GomTV. So there are not many tournaments if at all aside from the GSL there.
WriterXiao8~~
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-07 00:33:37
May 07 2011 00:33 GMT
#13
On May 07 2011 09:10 youngminii wrote:
???

I thought Korea has smaller tournaments other than GSL?

Also, I don't think foreign tournaments are denying access for newcomers at all. There are seeded players and there are qualifiers for foreign tournaments all the time.


I vaguely remember some tournament organizer (IGN?) saying that in order to award prizes over a certain $ amount you have to get permission from Blizzard. Since Blizzard gave exclusive rights for SC2 in SK to GOM, the only other tournaments are ones with tiny prize money like the IMS invitationals and the occasional showmatch.

There are of course, tournaments other tournaments in that Koreans can participate in such as NASL, FXOpen, StarWars, etc. However since these tournaments are mostly invite based, only players who have made a name for themselves in the GSL get in.
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
May 07 2011 00:40 GMT
#14
On May 07 2011 07:53 Kipsate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2011 07:49 Lyter wrote:
not getting salaries isn't rly a huge problem when everything is paid for them


It isn't? ST_July mentioned that he needed to win a tournament quickly because he was basically living off his GSL earnings at that time. I doubt that anything but the basics are sponsored for them.


Then what did July spend all his BW mone... oh wait nvm
Shana
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Indonesia1814 Posts
May 07 2011 01:09 GMT
#15
Sc2 needs the equivalent of BW Shinhan PL
Believing in what lies ahead. | That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
May 07 2011 01:16 GMT
#16
It would be awesome if they had a version of the old Kt-KTF league. That shit was awesome!
Never Knows Best.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 15h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 563
mouzHeroMarine 127
JuggernautJason82
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15185
Calm 1884
EffOrt 398
Dewaltoss 123
actioN 102
Hyun 61
ggaemo 35
Mong 4
Dota 2
Gorgc6515
singsing3073
qojqva2863
League of Legends
JimRising 0
Counter-Strike
fl0m1373
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu169
Other Games
FrodaN2140
Beastyqt965
ceh9510
RotterdaM192
DeMusliM149
C9.Mang0132
KnowMe102
QueenE89
Trikslyr67
Mew2King33
nookyyy 27
OptimusSC21
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 4
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HappyZerGling 105
• StrangeGG 59
• Reevou 15
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 32
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV645
League of Legends
• TFBlade990
Other Games
• imaqtpie1351
• Shiphtur244
Upcoming Events
WardiTV 2025
15h
ByuN vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
OSC
18h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 14h
WardiTV 2025
1d 15h
SC Evo League
1d 16h
Ladder Legends
1d 23h
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
3 days
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.