• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:48
CEST 16:48
KST 23:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced10Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid20
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail MaNa leaves Team Liquid Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued 2026 GSL Tour plans announced
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group B Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1954 users

Day 2: BOO with Genetic Algorithms

Blogs > Revilo
Post a Reply
Revilo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany23 Posts
October 14 2010 10:49 GMT
#1
Heya fine folks of TL,
I have finished making the controller for the Genetic Algorithm (Basically all the easy work is done). Now I have to get down and dirty with the fitness function and also replicate the Starcraft 2 game in mini form to evaluate timings, minerals, gas, etc... Wish me luck! If someone is interested in the bare bone Genetic Algorithm coded in python 2.7 which currently does nothing but find the optimal "Drone Only" build order, let me know and I can email it to you or provide a link.

Any inspiring ideas about the fitness function would be welcome It has dawned on me that this is definitely the hardest part of the algorithm I may however start with the Starcraft 2 simulator which would let people also just plug in a build order by hand and see the fastest execution time for it.

Looking for practice partners on EU! Message me if you like :) "I dont wtach porn anymore, I watch Socke" - Rotterdam
Revilo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany23 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 13:43:33
October 14 2010 13:41 GMT
#2
I have finished making a basic version of the Starcraft 2 game simulator. The first thing I told it to try is to give me the build time for a 6 pool (naturally ). Here are the timings it spits out:

0:38 - Spawning Pool
0:53 - Drone
1:08 - Drone
1:10 - Drone Completes
1:25 - Drone Completes
1:43 - Spawning Pool Completes
1:43 - Zergling
1:43 - Zergling
1:43 - Zergling
2:07 - Zergling Completes
2:07 - Zergling Completes
2:07 - Zergling Compeltes

This is of course in game time and I have made no variance based on time to get to mineral patches, etc... If someone know how fast they can get 6 zerglings in a 6-pool, I would appreciate the data. If you beat the listed timings you will be added to a special thanks section of the final algorithm

EDIT: Bear in mind, this is not the genetic algorithm giving a perfect build order for 6 zerglings. Rather this is just the timing function that is telling me how fast this build order can be done.
Looking for practice partners on EU! Message me if you like :) "I dont wtach porn anymore, I watch Socke" - Rotterdam
Revilo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany23 Posts
October 14 2010 15:10 GMT
#3
Just completed a build order "cleaner". It basically takes an arbitrary build order (even if its an illegal one) and goes through it and checks to make sure basic requirements are fulfilled for each step. For instance, if Zerglings are to be made, it checks to see if there is already a spawning pool in the build order. Also, it checks to make sure enough pop is available given the overlords produced beforehand in the build order. If something illegal is found, it simply removes it from the list and increments a penalty counter. At the end it returns a cleansed build order that is legal and a penalty count that tells you how many incorrect units were removed from the original build order. This is mainly a preprocessing tool for my genetic algorithm to keep the input to the Starcraft 2 simulator legal (preventing an infinite loop).
Looking for practice partners on EU! Message me if you like :) "I dont wtach porn anymore, I watch Socke" - Rotterdam
ammeL
Profile Joined August 2009
United States211 Posts
October 14 2010 16:31 GMT
#4
Interesting stuff; I may be able to provide some input. I can probably take a look at the code, too, to see if any ideas spark for me and I can help you with the algorithm.
Those who criticize our generation forget who raised it.
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
October 14 2010 16:42 GMT
#5
the objective function is to maximize the probability of winning, but this depends on what your opponent is doing, and that could be a number of things, depending on what you see. so I don't see how you can manage the problem.

the best you could do maybe is to maximize the size of your army at 20 minutes, subject to the constraints that you must have at least such and such units and upgrades at particular timepoints.

fun project, and good luck, but I'm not sure if this will be useful for players
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
ammeL
Profile Joined August 2009
United States211 Posts
October 14 2010 17:03 GMT
#6
Even though it may not be useful to players, it may still be useful in the context that you're able to see what times certain things can be done (though of course, I'm sure there will always be something more efficient).

This will probably be of no use to most people, but if you're just messing around with build orders and certain timing attacks, knowing that you can have X amount of Zerglings out in an X amount of time can help you in some ways.
Those who criticize our generation forget who raised it.
Revilo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany23 Posts
October 14 2010 18:06 GMT
#7
So I have extended the code to now include Queens (with larva injection), as well as extractors (with drones moving to extractor) and Roaches and the Roach Warren. I have been able to replicate some results by users for a 7 Roach Rush:

+ Show Spoiler +
7 Roach Rush
00:00 - Drone
00:13 - Drone
00:15 - Larva Spawn
00:17 - Drone Complete
00:24 - Drone
00:30 - Larva Spawn
00:30 - Drone Complete
00:33 - Drone
00:41 - Drone Complete
00:45 - Larva Spawn
00:50 - Drone Complete
00:50 - Overlord
01:00 - Larva Spawn
01:15 - Larva Spawn
01:15 - Overlord Complete
01:19 - Spawning Pool
01:27 - Drone
01:35 - Drone
01:42 - Larva Spawn
01:44 - Drone Complete
01:44 - Drone
01:51 - Drone
01:52 - Drone Complete
01:57 - Larva Spawn
01:57 - Drone
02:01 - Drone Complete
02:08 - Drone Complete
02:12 - Larva Spawn
02:12 - Drone
02:12 - Extractor
02:14 - Drone Complete
02:24 - Spawning Pool Complete
02:27 - Larva Spawn
02:27 - Drone
02:29 - Drone Complete
02:30 - Queen
02:42 - Larva Spawn
02:42 - Extractor Complete
02:42 - Drone
02:44 - Drone Complete
02:51 - Roach Warren
02:57 - Larva Spawn
02:58 - Drone
02:59 - Drone Complete
03:12 - Larva Spawn
03:12 - Overlord
03:15 - Drone Complete
03:20 - Queen Complete
03:27 - Larva Spawn
03:27 - Overlord
03:37 - Overlord Complete
03:42 - Larva Spawn
03:46 - Roach Warren Complete
03:46 - Roach
03:52 - Overlord Complete
03:57 - Larva Spawn
03:57 - Roach
04:00 - 4x Larva from Inject
04:00 - Roach
04:00 - Roach
04:03 - Roach
04:12 - Larva Spawn
04:12 - Roach
04:13 - Roach Complete
04:20 - Roach
04:24 - Roach Complete
04:27 - Larva Spawn
04:27 - Roach Complete
04:27 - Roach Complete
04:30 - Roach Complete
04:39 - Roach Complete
04:42 - Larva Spawn
04:45 - 4x Larva from Inject
04:47 - Roach Complete
Build finishes at 04:48 minutes.
Minerals at end: 255.0
Gas at end: 75.0


The algorithm has some built in timing issues with the transfer of workers between minerals to gas and from spawning to minerals. But I believe these are negligent and you should be able to almost replicate these times to the second. Playing on normal speed to try it out first might help with training it. This is a very aggressive build. If anyone has some other Zerg build orders they would like me to time and compare with your own play time, please feel free to post them (or pm me if you feel it might be embarrassing or secretive ).
Looking for practice partners on EU! Message me if you like :) "I dont wtach porn anymore, I watch Socke" - Rotterdam
Slithe
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States985 Posts
October 14 2010 18:47 GMT
#8
What kind of performance are you seeing on the algorithm for something about as complex as a 7 roach rush? Does the fitness level converge relatively quickly?
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
11:00
Group B
WardiTV939
TKL 276
Rex128
3DClanTV 73
Liquipedia
Escore
10:00
Week 3
escodisco1636
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 276
Rex 128
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 1654
Shuttle 651
EffOrt 442
BeSt 422
Soma 383
actioN 342
Mini 293
Snow 270
Hyuk 209
ToSsGirL 191
[ Show more ]
hero 184
NaDa 166
Hyun 133
Rush 113
Soulkey 103
Dewaltoss 71
Aegong 69
scan(afreeca) 58
Sea.KH 55
JYJ 48
[sc1f]eonzerg 45
Backho 36
Pusan 31
Sexy 29
Hm[arnc] 26
Terrorterran 21
Bale 19
JulyZerg 17
Rock 15
Britney 0
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
Gorgc3969
qojqva1926
ODPixel237
League of Legends
Reynor142
Counter-Strike
fl0m1701
kRYSTAL_26
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King87
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr18
Other Games
singsing2151
B2W.Neo1610
hiko734
FrodaN432
Mlord367
DeMusliM318
Lowko302
crisheroes147
ArmadaUGS77
QueenE63
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV390
Counter-Strike
PGL194
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 47
• EnkiAlexander 32
• LUISG 9
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV347
League of Legends
• Nemesis2790
• Jankos1703
• TFBlade1315
Other Games
• Shiphtur89
Upcoming Events
OSC
12m
Big Brain Bouts
1h 12m
MaNa vs goblin
Scarlett vs Spirit
Serral vs herO
Korean StarCraft League
12h 12m
CranKy Ducklings
19h 12m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
20h 12m
IPSL
1d 1h
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
1d 4h
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
Patches Events
1d 7h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 9h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 20h
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL
2 days
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-16
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W3
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.