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I started off playing Terran about a month before beta closed. I was gonna play Protoss but as I read the patch notes, every patch nerfed Protoss and buffed Terran (no joke, go read them) so I played T instead. And man it was easy. Terran is basically imba everywhere. Everything Terrans have excels at their job or straight up owns.
Marauders: walking ground pwn-mobiles
1) high HP + stim + can be healed = mini-immortals.
2) ridiculous 20 dmg vs armored (which is like half or more of all armies)
3) cheap to build
4) slow (lol melee units)
Other units like tank/viking combos still work well. BCs/vikings own air AND ground at the same time, and etc. Macro is also ridiculously ez, there's nothing to warp in or larva to inject. Just control your army and 4ss,3ddd every minute or so. Got to diamond pretty easily in both 1v1 and 2v2.
Conclusion: Terran is imba and thus too easy. Now that the game's released, I'm playing Zerg, where it takes real skill to win. The end.
  
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My personal gripe with T is that it's so well thought out. Units have excellent synergy between them, T has a million and 1 opening BOs. Outstanding units that excel at what they're supposed to do. A unit to counter any other unit in the game. Quick tech switches are possible (not as good as zergs ability, but far better than Ps ability) Good macro mechanics, and the list goes on and on...
When you look at it like that Z/P are really underdesigned in comparation to T. P had been smacked with the nerf bat ever since the 1st beta patch. Zs 1 good tank unit got utterly destroyed and changed into a more specialized unit in 2 patches. What happened to T? reactor build time increase and mara slow now an upgrade for the laughable price of 50/50. Ridiculous.
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If you're going to make a thread like this, please support your views by playing Terran in a tournament and roflpown everyone. Saying that you're going to play Zerg because it takes skill makes me think you can't win either way.
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Netherlands19135 Posts
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event.
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I have a Z friend and a P friend I'd be willing to bet you couldn't get a win off of.
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Now, now, this is a blog, and that's just his personal opinion.
It could be (really) wrong, but please refrain from flaming too much.
So...
This whole things seems more like a brag thread, with you blatantly stating that you are "diamond in both 1v1 and 2v2" and that you are "playing a race that needs skills".
If you feel that you need to brag when you post a blog, gg.net is a good place.
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PS. your thread name is misleading too, you're definitely not a terran player.
Good luck trolling (seriously can't think of another reason for you to be so unrefined).
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couldnt agree more 
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An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
- Jef Mallett
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I really hate Terran in SC2. Apparently the secret to Terran is to make any combination of units you want, and then attack move, and win.
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On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event.
Funny how thats not true. i bet its pretty even, maybe a bit more terran wins than zerg/protoss, but still pretty even.
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On July 30 2010 21:50 Latham wrote:
My personal gripe with T is that it's so well thought out. Units have excellent synergy between them, T has a million and 1 opening BOs.
I assume since this is a terran centric game (Wings of Liberty), the expansions will focus on developing the other races. I'm not saying it isn't decently balanced atm, just that the other races might be given more B.O options in later expansions.
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I hate terran too. It's like I sit there droning to get up to the same economy level that mule gives them early game, then they have a bigger army of units that are stronger than mine 1 for 1, and they just abuse the fact that over half the maps are either way too small or have naturals that are so wide open their stimmed marauders can run laps around my pathetic army. I think the only maps I'm truly comfortable taking my nat on are the ones with cliffs that, surprise surprise, terran also excels at abusing
I am diamond but not a great zerg player by any means so maybe its me, but I don't feel like there is a stage in the game that Zerg excels vs Terran. Not early, not mid, and not late game. Unless they are terrible
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marauders are going to see some sort of nerf, be it increase in price or decrease it stats. I also suspect that vikings will lose some attack range.
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On July 30 2010 23:43 Wysp wrote:
marauders are going to see some sort of nerf, be it increase in price or decrease it stats. I also suspect that vikings will lose some attack range.
You would think so. I mean, I thought that all throughout Beta. But lol...
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On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event.
Just like Starcraft BW
P imba, but it's hard for P to win MSL/OSL
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I love how you think Zerg is harder than terran LOL
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But... Why don't you play terran and go pro? too easy?
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lol just live with it and enjoy the easy wins terran provides. I was zerg for the first half of beta then protoss for the last half, and now Im just giving up and playing terran fulltime.. and its soo easy, but im ok with it.
People always bitch about races, in BW it was protoss being the "easy race", even though they were NOWHERE close to as easy as terran is in SC2.. so whatever, After the past 2 years of playing protoss on BW, I realize that people are always going to bash one race for being "less skilled".. but it all comes down to who wins the game. and if I am beating top diamond players with attack-moving terran, then they need to find another way to stop it or blizzard needs to nerf it. End of story.
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lolololol
5/5 stars, would read again..
+ Show Spoiler +incase you didn't pick up on that, that was sarcasm..
Edit: wait! woaah! You are diamond in 1v1 AND 2v2?.. i'm calling shenanigans...lol
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Whether you guys regard this as anti-terran hatespeech or just the musings of a guy who found a race he's just naturally better at is up to you. I'm far from being good enough to make absolute judgements on what is overpowered, this is just me reporting my findings as a race-switcher  .
I played about 500 games of protoss in phase 1. In phase 2 I switched to terran and in the 50-70 games of terran I racked up I felt I was winning a lot more, against much better players and with far less effort than I ever did with protoss. I don't think I'll be playing SC2 very seriously anymore as frankly it's not very good compared to BW, but if I am going to play I think it's safe to say it will be with terran.
Every single unit the terran has feels monstrously powerful with little need for control. With protoss my army always feels weak unless it's the perfect combination of all the units and support units I have at my disposal. Protoss armies feel inflexible, they are less mobile than an MMM ball, and have a hard time covering ground, whereas with the current maps mech covers almost everything with little effort. With protoss I'm also much more dependant on getting my positioning (being caught out of position is death, whereas an M&M blob is always naturally in position unless there are banelings) and target firing right as protoss as I don't get such outrageous ranged dps from every unit I have.
Terran "harass" is also a million times stronger than anything protoss can do, it feels like a joke calling it "harass" when I load up 2 medivacs of m&m, stim, kill an expansion nexus/tech buildings and fly away joining the bulk of my army without losing as much as a marauder. If I'm meching I can send 4-5 hellions with their ridiculous speed past any dedicated defense, fry the entire worker line and with luck even manage to get 1 or 2 out without losing them. Having one banshee chilling in the empty space on the outskirts of a map, poking in to kill stuff (my personal favourite are the gas miners, especially in mined out mains) whenever I feel like is fun too, since there's absolutely 0 chance of losing the damn thing ever unless the opponent goes out of their way to get an air unit.
Compare this to warp prism antics, where stalkers can get away with blink but also have no dps and kill nothing, zealots which cost as much as hellions but get shut down before they can kill a significant amount of workers, ht drops that are expensive and kill maybe half of a workerline if you're lucky and the opponent doesn't react. AND you don't need a dedicated force to shut these things down, either.
The one thing I've had any trouble with as terran, that felt required me to put in effort to deal with, are high templar. But my guess is that that's only because I'm a little lazy in my ghost use, which will basically shut that whole thing down with their superior range, instant damage EMP.
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U should try muta baneling against terran infantry, It's why i don't go bio. Tbh terran is prob easier at lower skill levels but at higher levels of play I would actually give the advantage to the other two races.
Ps diamond isn't high level, and on the us server most diamond people are pretty horrible like me
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You apparently forgot to play terran before the buffs, they made about as many quarter finals as the other races got in first place finishes.
A real confession of a terran player (read: not a zerg player) would be the fact that my least favorite ground unit to go against is tanks. They're still immobile and they already killed everything in bw but they're a pain to beat (also a pain to have if you are spreading a bit to thin).
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Yes! Thats why im playing zerg too. Its where the real skill is. I have 110 apm, and its still hard to beat a terran with 80 apm.
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On July 31 2010 00:35 Skyze wrote:
lol just live with it and enjoy the easy wins terran provides. I was zerg for the first half of beta then protoss for the last half, and now Im just giving up and playing terran fulltime.. and its soo easy, but im ok with it.
People always bitch about races, in BW it was protoss being the "easy race", even though they were NOWHERE close to as easy as terran is in SC2.. so whatever, After the past 2 years of playing protoss on BW, I realize that people are always going to bash one race for being "less skilled".. but it all comes down to who wins the game. and if I am beating top diamond players with attack-moving terran, then they need to find another way to stop it or blizzard needs to nerf it. End of story.
exact opposite expirience. im random and P is imho the BY FAR easiest to play. evryfight is aclick + maybe forcefield/storm spam. just go 3gate robo or 4gate evry game vs all races, aclick after 8 minutes into enemy base -> win 2 out of 3 games. if you feel fancy do a proxy void rush once in a while .
and seriously the P army is by faaar the easiest to control. evrytime i aclick roll over a maxed Z /t bio army with mass colloxen i giggle abit because it looks plain stupid :>
Terran and zerg both require better macro mechanics and way better unit control in most situations and esp when playing against P.
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On July 31 2010 01:25 Tazza wrote:
Yes! Thats why im playing zerg too. Its where the real skill is. I have 110 apm, and its still hard to beat a terran with 80 apm.
This means nothing. First of all it's only a 30 APM difference which is pretty much nothing since you're probably spamming, secondly meching terran doesn't NEED as much APM until late-late-late game. Your problem is you spam and/or your actions aren't the right ones.
OP: Just because you do better with Terran doesn't mean it's better. It's OK to think that in your head, but don't pretend like you know what you're talking about.
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On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event.
not true at all, terrans have won the 2 big gom individual tournaments and there have been relatively few major events.
as for the weekly prize tournaments, zotac, esl, craftcup, gosucoaching, terrans have been doing just fine.
and really, if you look at the players playing terran compared to the players playing zerg and protoss at the top level terran shouldnt even be doing nearly as well as they are. if tester or cool had chosen terran, or upmagic had started at the beginning of beta, they wouldve won every single big event since the 2 supply roach patch.
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On July 31 2010 00:33 .AbrHAm wrote:
But... Why don't you play terran and go pro? too easy?
The crux of the issue lol
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On July 31 2010 01:35 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event. not true at all, terrans have won the 2 big gom individual tournaments and there have been relatively few major events. as for the weekly prize tournaments, zotac, esl, craftcup, gosucoaching, terrans have been doing just fine. and really, if you look at the players playing terran compared to the players playing zerg and protoss at the top level terran shouldnt even be doing nearly as well as they are. if tester or cool had chosen terran, or upmagic had started at the beginning of beta, they wouldve won every single big event since the 2 supply roach patch.
You keep saying this same stuff like the more you post it the more weight the statement carries... Tester didn't have a 50% win-rate in Pro BW, neither did Cool (and he barely got play-time even) so stop using them as examples as if because they aren't dominating with their chosen races it means their races aren't as good as T. I realize the foreigners still aren't near even sub-par Progamer levels, but these are once-retired sub-par progamers -- not to mention that SC2 simply doesn't have the APM requirement for macro, so creativity, playing dynamically, and micro wins games a lot more than APM does, and the biggest advantage Koreans have over foreigners is hours and hours and hours of training, which you could debate about whether or not this assists in thinking on your feet (beyond ofc being able to predict your opponent, but this is SC 2 and they haven't been able to practice that much).
When Jaedong gets tossed around by Masq ZvT in SC2 then that's another story.
EDIT: PS gj on CNN
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cool and tester are the only serious sc2 players who were sc1 proleaguers within the last few years, theyre also the best of their races by quite a bit. its not a coincidence, a very big chunk of the skillset transfers cleanly.
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Is it just me or when you look at the graphs after the game zerg is always a shit ton behind the other races at the beginning? maybe i just suck though haha.
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On July 31 2010 01:58 IdrA wrote:
cool and tester are the only serious sc2 players who were sc1 proleaguers within the last few years, theyre also the best of their races by quite a bit. its not a coincidence, a very big chunk of the skillset transfers cleanly.
I think you guys are forgetting Maka who was very dominant.
As for as "imbalances" go I think the game is "fine"..
Banelings are just crazy, infestors also don't get enough "recognition"
Collosus / templar are also crazy
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On July 31 2010 01:40 DanielD wrote:
You keep saying this same stuff like the more you post it the more weight the statement carries... Tester didn't have a 50% win-rate in Pro BW, neither did Cool (and he barely got play-time even) so stop using them as examples as if because they aren't dominating with their chosen races it means their races aren't as good as T. I realize the foreigners still aren't near even sub-par Progamer levels, but these are once-retired sub-par progamers -- not to mention that SC2 simply doesn't have the APM requirement for macro, so creativity, playing dynamically, and micro wins games a lot more than APM does, and the biggest advantage Koreans have over foreigners is hours and hours and hours of training, which you could debate about whether or not this assists in thinking on your feet (beyond ofc being able to predict your opponent, but this is SC 2 and they haven't been able to practice that much).
When Jaedong gets tossed around by Masq ZvT in SC2 then that's another story.
EDIT: PS gj on CNN
It takes an amazing amount of skill, intuition, and understanding to even get close to pro level. Even if you arent A-team, your still absolutely amazing at the game. They have the "requirement for macro, so creativity, playing dynamically, and micro" that you speak of but they also have the insane apm to back it up as well. Also why the hell do you compare how they did in bw to sc2 in this? That statement is completely irrelevant. Tester and Cool are without a doubt, dominating their respected races in sc2 atm.
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5/5 more Terrans need to make a blog like this 
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At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW.
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On July 31 2010 03:18 R0YAL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 01:40 DanielD wrote:
You keep saying this same stuff like the more you post it the more weight the statement carries... Tester didn't have a 50% win-rate in Pro BW, neither did Cool (and he barely got play-time even) so stop using them as examples as if because they aren't dominating with their chosen races it means their races aren't as good as T. I realize the foreigners still aren't near even sub-par Progamer levels, but these are once-retired sub-par progamers -- not to mention that SC2 simply doesn't have the APM requirement for macro, so creativity, playing dynamically, and micro wins games a lot more than APM does, and the biggest advantage Koreans have over foreigners is hours and hours and hours of training, which you could debate about whether or not this assists in thinking on your feet (beyond ofc being able to predict your opponent, but this is SC 2 and they haven't been able to practice that much).
When Jaedong gets tossed around by Masq ZvT in SC2 then that's another story.
EDIT: PS gj on CNN It takes an amazing amount of skill, intuition, and understanding to even get close to pro level. Even if you arent A-team, your still absolutely amazing at the game. They have the "requirement for macro, so creativity, playing dynamically, and micro" that you speak of but they also have the insane apm to back it up as well. Also why the hell do you compare how they did in bw to sc2 in this? That statement is completely irrelevant. Tester and Cool are without a doubt, dominating their respected races in sc2 atm.
Err... it's not irrelevant to talk about their BW skill when Idra is talking about how they were sc 1 professionals and therefore are better than the other SC2 players by a large margin, because of this fact.
I haven't seen many games with Cool, but Tester, while being pretty good, is clearly not playing at the level of a decent Progamer. The games I've watched with him he has played relatively solid but hasn't shown himself to be worlds better than his opponents in the semis or the finals. We still haven't seen TvP or TvZ played at the highest levels, all of this "if so and so played T they'd do even BETTER" is pure speculation until it actually happens.
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On July 31 2010 04:51 TheAntZ wrote:
At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW.
This is very true. Plus, even some Terrans agree that Terran is OP. Just ask LuckyFool, lol
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On July 31 2010 04:51 TheAntZ wrote:
At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW.
I can understand the very top players not being objective but below that it's quite sad people can't admit the obvious advantage Terran has for absolutely no reason other than their delusions or fear of a slightly lower winrate.
That being said I love playing Terran, played Protoss the entire beta, went 30-12 solo which is pretty bad, used an alt account and went 25-5 trying out Terran for the first time. It's pretty awesome to do any strategy I feel like and still win games through macro/micro. If you take your expansion 30 seconds too early as P, sorry game over go back up your ramp and make more gates plz. You do one extra macro cycles of drones as Z, sorry game over.
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people say 'oh but Z and P are better because they win all the competitions' but they aren't looking at it on an average player's level. For the average player (lower level diamond included) terran is indeed imbalanced. It just takes a lot more skill to fend off a terran attack than it does to fend off a zerg or protoss attack if you aren't extremely good.
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thank you for admitting it. Terran will be nerfed eventually.
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On July 31 2010 05:03 PokePill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 04:51 TheAntZ wrote:
At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW. I can understand the very top players not being objective but below that it's quite sad people can't admit the obvious advantage Terran has for absolutely no reason other than their delusions or fear of a slightly lower winrate. That being said I love playing Terran, played Protoss the entire beta, went 30-12 solo which is pretty bad, used an alt account and went 25-5 trying out Terran for the first time. It's pretty awesome to do any strategy I feel like and still win games through macro/micro. If you take your expansion 30 seconds too early as P, sorry game over go back up your ramp and make more gates plz. You do one extra macro cycles of drones as Z, sorry game over.
Yea its next to impossible to punish a terran for a slightly early expo, lift off wtf. And every OC contributes to income, no matter where they are. Mules are not rigged for their income, it's the fact that you can save up 4 per OC if you are defensive and then just x12 mule and roll out a new army in no time.
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On July 31 2010 01:58 IdrA wrote:
cool and tester are the only serious sc2 players who were sc1 proleaguers within the last few years, theyre also the best of their races by quite a bit. its not a coincidence, a very big chunk of the skillset transfers cleanly.
what about IntoTheRainbow?
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On July 31 2010 05:00 DanielD wrote:
Err... it's not irrelevant to talk about their BW skill when Idra is talking about how they were sc 1 professionals and therefore are better than the other SC2 players by a large margin, because of this fact.
I haven't seen many games with Cool, but Tester, while being pretty good, is clearly not playing at the level of a decent Progamer. The games I've watched with him he has played relatively solid but hasn't shown himself to be worlds better than his opponents in the semis or the finals. We still haven't seen TvP or TvZ played at the highest levels, all of this "if so and so played T they'd do even BETTER" is pure speculation until it actually happens.
The game will be constantly evolving over time, short term and long term. Currently they are at the highest level of play because they are the best players atm along with idra.
Watch Day[9] KotB Tester vs. Into the Rainbow is pretty high level P v T. Also White-ra vs. Cauthonluck casted by Gretorp from the Day[9] countdown party was very good as well.
I do agree with the speculation part.
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On July 30 2010 23:43 Wysp wrote:
marauders are going to see some sort of nerf, be it increase in price or decrease it stats. I also suspect that vikings will lose some attack range.
I dont even think marauders are a problem
If you arent stupid with Marines they ARE the strongest units in the game, they beat every other unit cost for cost because of stim, and have like 60 hp and cost 50 minerals
???????
Id like to see a marine HP nerf or something
but Marauder nerfs wouldnt be bad either..
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They seriosly need to nerf marauders or fix something with terran, Its pretty stupid when all you have to do is A move with marine marauder and win. Actually you need to stim aswell so thats 3 clicks to win. Pretty fair.
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On July 31 2010 05:13 GreatFall wrote:
people say 'oh but Z and P are better because they win all the competitions' but they aren't looking at it on an average player's level. For the average player (lower level diamond included) terran is indeed imbalanced. It just takes a lot more skill to fend off a terran attack than it does to fend off a zerg or protoss attack if you aren't extremely good.
How would you balance a game at the "average players level". Make T worse at higher levels so that its easier for silver and gold players to beat them? That doesn't make any sense. If it's balanced at the highest levels, then the problem with the lower level players is that they're doing something wrong, not that the game is unbalanced.
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I don't play Zerg, so I don't know what to do about TvZ, but IMO the problem with PvT is a combination of Ghosts (EMP) and Vikings.
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Lolll @ people thinking T is easier than P.
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On July 31 2010 08:12 zoltanqc wrote:
Lolll @ people thinking T is easier than P.
Lolll @ Terran players not thinking Terran is imba
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Loll @ all these z and p losing to terran and crying imba instead of their own skills
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Baa?21244 Posts
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On July 31 2010 08:56 Malgrif wrote:
Loll @ all these z and p losing to terran and crying imba instead of their own skills
look it's another one, haha
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On July 31 2010 05:58 FindingPride wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 01:58 IdrA wrote:
cool and tester are the only serious sc2 players who were sc1 proleaguers within the last few years, theyre also the best of their races by quite a bit. its not a coincidence, a very big chunk of the skillset transfers cleanly. what about IntoTheRainbow?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=15&part=games&league=standard
Late 2006 was when he really just fazed out. 2007 he played a few proleague games but nothing much. Cool played about as much in proleague as ITR in 07. Tester is the only one who actually played a significant amount of games leading up to sc2. That's probably why were are excited for players like Up and sangho who were proleague regulars for their team. A-team level is absurd.
Really I keep teetering between playing zerg and terran. I like zerg but terran is too ridiculous. Ever single time I play against one I don't understand how blizzard is not nerfing them. I have to say it is significantly worse then protoss at low levels in scbw.
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Yea you guys are all correct. Why are these highly educated and successful game balancers so dumb? Why dot they listen to angry gamers and nerf everything to make the game easier? "Jeez"!
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On July 31 2010 08:20 blabber wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 08:12 zoltanqc wrote:
Lolll @ people thinking T is easier than P. Lolll @ Terran players not thinking Terran is imba
What is your diamond rating out of curiosity? High enough to be taken seriously? I'm curious because I'm pretty sick of people spewing "imba imba QQ " and it seems like thats what you're doing. How do you reconcile your beliefs with strong performances by P and Z in top level tournaments throughout the beta?
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On July 31 2010 12:10 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 08:20 blabber wrote:On July 31 2010 08:12 zoltanqc wrote:
Lolll @ people thinking T is easier than P. Lolll @ Terran players not thinking Terran is imba What is your diamond rating out of curiosity? High enough to be taken seriously? I'm curious because I'm pretty sick of people spewing "imba imba QQ " and it seems like thats what you're doing. How do you reconcile your beliefs with strong performances by P and Z in top level tournaments throughout the beta?
Well, I would reconcile them by quoting things that Idra has already said in this very topic. Plus, I assume Idra is a good enough player to be taken seriously.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 31 2010 13:03 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 12:10 calgar wrote:On July 31 2010 08:20 blabber wrote:On July 31 2010 08:12 zoltanqc wrote:
Lolll @ people thinking T is easier than P. Lolll @ Terran players not thinking Terran is imba What is your diamond rating out of curiosity? High enough to be taken seriously? I'm curious because I'm pretty sick of people spewing "imba imba QQ " and it seems like thats what you're doing. How do you reconcile your beliefs with strong performances by P and Z in top level tournaments throughout the beta? Well, I would reconcile them by quoting things that Idra has already said in this very topic. Plus, I assume Idra is a good enough player to be taken seriously.
Idra's primary quip is primarily with a specific unit composition in the matchup most relevant to him. And to be fair, I agree with him in regard to that--and I've been advocating it's change for a while now. The problem is when people start extending that to virtually every unit available to Terran. An example of this is the marauder--people have been complaining about it since day 1 of the beta, particularly with regard to mass marauder strategies when, as far as I've seen in high level games, overly marauder-heavy compositions are fairly poor. If you face a mass marauder strategy on ladder, you should be happy to take the freewin.
Terran is overpowered, but I'm pretty sure that a majority of people complaining about it aren't even losing in situations where the "overpowered" elements are being abused.
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On July 31 2010 05:02 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 04:51 TheAntZ wrote:
At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW. This is very true. Plus, even some Terrans agree that Terran is OP. Just ask LuckyFool, lol
yep. We deserve it though after 11 years of bullshit in bw.
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On July 31 2010 04:51 TheAntZ wrote:
At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW.
No it's not.
There's bitching and whining about terran in every live report thread for brood war too. There's a very clear bias amongst low level against T in general, because:
1. T is for turtles hurr durr
2. I can't a-move into T and win hurr durr. (well actually you can in BW)
3. noobs consider TvT boring, thus by some logical leap T must also be always boring.
So far though, the best "proofs" of T being too good is a bunch of foreigner zergs letting T have half the map on steppes (one of the most T favored maps) and/or a-moving into a tank line.
I'm gonna wait until "terrans start winning everything" like IdrA says, but until then there's no need to over-nerf.
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On July 31 2010 14:53 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 05:02 Sentenal wrote:On July 31 2010 04:51 TheAntZ wrote:
At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW. This is very true. Plus, even some Terrans agree that Terran is OP. Just ask LuckyFool, lol yep. We deserve it though after 11 years of bullshit in bw. 11 Years of Boxer, Nada, Oov, and Flash, and now you deserve SC2 too?
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dps is more important than damage per shot.
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On July 31 2010 08:06 SC2Phoenix wrote:
They seriosly need to nerf marauders or fix something with terran, Its pretty stupid when all you have to do is A move with marine marauder and win. Actually you need to stim aswell so thats 3 clicks to win. Pretty fair.
ohh, the SC2 1a2a3a4a jokes are coming =)
i'm a SC2 terran, pretty high level diamond, and i gotta say, terran is OP at medium or low levels, but there are so many ways that P and Z can rip apart my position and just make life hella hard for me, that they aren't doing.
things like:
immortal dropping to snipe tanks.
proper muta harass. (decision making i see is just horrible)
zerg just aren't macroing enough when they are muta harassing. i just played a game where a zerg did some very good muta harass for almost 5 minutes straight. then i scan and see hive, and i'm like fuck, broodlords already? then i realize he's still on 2 bases.
zerg needs to hidden tech better. soon as lair is done, spew some creep with an overlord, and build ur spire, or ur infestor den, or ur shit there. do you know how hard it is for terran to fucking scout? zerglings run faster than scvs. our scans cost us 280 minerals every time we use it, and we can't even use it that often. whenever we can't see ur spire, we're fucked. hide ur fucking spire for cdrying out loud, and stop crying OP because you aren't willing to do these such simple things.
muta harass needs to snipe sensor towers. stop sniping my mules lol. i nkow how the math works out, but honestly, it's wrong. ur better off killing scvs.
oh ya, and creep takes fucking forever to go away now. when u got ur god damn creep on my fucking expo, i need to kill ur shit, and then wait another minute before i can land my god damn comand center there? u zerg bastards need to abuse that shit. u know i'm going to slow push expand when i'm a turtle terran. u got ur lair tech up. u know u got map control, so put ur g.d. overlord spewing shit all over my next expo so i can't expo there.
sheesh.
etc. i need to sleep.
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On July 31 2010 21:16 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 14:53 LuckyFool wrote:On July 31 2010 05:02 Sentenal wrote:On July 31 2010 04:51 TheAntZ wrote:
At this point its really just
Protoss/Zerg/Random: Man terran seems really strong compared to the other races
Terran: NUH UH!
if the other two races are forgettin to bitch about each other and team up on yours, then thats a clear sign that somethings wrong at SOME level
example, protoss at low ranks in BW. This is very true. Plus, even some Terrans agree that Terran is OP. Just ask LuckyFool, lol yep. We deserve it though after 11 years of bullshit in bw. 11 Years of Boxer, Nada, Oov, and Flash, and now you deserve SC2 too?
Boxer, Nada, Oov and Flash are not human. Go look at terran win percentages on most any iccup map and you will see the average normal terran deserves every bit of what we get in sc2. Terran isn't even OP, it's just harder to fuck up now.
The most popular map overall on iccup, Python, Terran has losing win percentages in both matchups. Fighting spirit (the most popular map last season) we're barely staying 50% in TvZ and have 49% TvP with protoss over 3k game advantage.
heres a nice one too: heartbreak ridge. TvP terran has 41% winrate. FOURTY ONE PRECENT WINRATE WTF? and in TvZ we have an amazing 46% winrate.
Meanwhile the "terran maps" like Lost Temple and Othello the best Terran winrate is like 52% lol? protoss users cry about these maps and the results are near even while the maps on the other end terran is near 40% winrate.
So you can go on and talk about Boxer/Nada/Oov/Flash but the vast majority of us mere mortals are very ready to put you protoss scum where you belong. And it's not even gonna happen because storm is still fucking retarded and void rays are imba as shit so honestly I can try to lie to myself that terrans finally have it better but honestly we don't. Shit just doesn't glitch now.
stats are all here: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/sc_ladder_maps.html
edit; Oh btw I looked at the neo req winrates and it made me want to vomit.
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people aren't harassing properly and terran is even better than in BW when they are set up. right now zerg seems like the race that would be most abusive at higher levels. building corrupt, changeling, burrowed banelings, nydus harass, etc.
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On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event.
True but for the lower level peaple terran is so easy to win as comparedd to the other races. We are not all ranked 1st in the world like the peaple that play in the events that peaple watch.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2010 15:57 XKiller wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event. True but for the lower level peaple terran is so easy to win as comparedd to the other races. We are not all ranked 1st in the world like the peaple that play in the events that peaple watch.
If it's balanced at high levels, then it's not a concern for low-level play, because people will still sort out to their appropriate skill levels if the matchmaking system works.
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On August 01 2010 16:39 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2010 15:57 XKiller wrote:On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event. True but for the lower level peaple terran is so easy to win as comparedd to the other races. We are not all ranked 1st in the world like the peaple that play in the events that peaple watch. If it's balanced at high levels, then it's not a concern for low-level play, because people will still sort out to their appropriate skill levels if the matchmaking system works.
Let's say X requires more skill than Y to play(micro/macro/whatev). If you place "noob1" playing X vs. "noob2" playing Y, then the one playing Y will win. Just saying, balancing around high-level will not automaticly balance low-level, and what is balanced in low-level may not be balanced high-level. Catch my drift?
As long as we're not dealing with everything beeing 100% hardcounters, there will be issues like this.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2010 17:08 Kongkopa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2010 16:39 TheYango wrote:On August 01 2010 15:57 XKiller wrote:On July 30 2010 22:02 Nyovne wrote:
Funny how it's the other two races that win practically every single event. True but for the lower level peaple terran is so easy to win as comparedd to the other races. We are not all ranked 1st in the world like the peaple that play in the events that peaple watch. If it's balanced at high levels, then it's not a concern for low-level play, because people will still sort out to their appropriate skill levels if the matchmaking system works. Let's say X requires more skill than Y to play(micro/macro/whatev). If you place "noob1" playing X vs. "noob2" playing Y, then the one playing Y will win. Just saying, balancing around high-level will not automaticly balance low-level, and what is balanced in low-level may not be balanced high-level. Catch my drift? As long as we're not dealing with everything beeing 100% hardcounters, there will be issues like this.
I'm not saying that it will be balanced. I'm saying that low-level balance is a non-issue, for two reasons:
1) There is no tangible benefit for being "good" at one race at low levels. There is no gain or loss from being a "bronze level Terran" or a "silver level Protoss". For high-level players, there is a gain for playing a race that is especially good because of the real tangible gain from it (money, fame, etc.). At low levels, the key concern is whether it's an enjoyable experience, and that in and of itself is largely unrelated to balance (especially since evaluating balance at that level is intractable, see below).
2) It's hard to isolate "skill" independent of their race. It's more reasonable for high-level players because you can use SC1 ability as a baseline (as Idra has done so when evaluating players like Tester, Rainbow, and Cool), but for low-level players with questionable backgrounds, your only measure of "skill" is their success with the race in question. This makes it impossible to objectively analyze issues of balance because you can't tell whether game outcomes happen because people are playing well/badly or because something is imbalanced. If you can't measure how well you're doing at balance, then there's no way to tell if you're improving things or making them worse.
Effectively, the issue of balance comes down to this--if X and Y are balanced, then a player choosing X and an equally skilled player choosing Y should end up 50:50 against each other. The problem is that at low levels, it's impossible to determine whether players are "equally skilled". As such, trying to answer the question of whether something is balanced for low levels is a fruitless exercise.
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No, but balancing the highest level of the game means that it is balanced. Everything else is based on the player's skill. If X vs. Y is balanced and Y wins, then X needs to improve in that area until he can beat it.
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lol awesome blog yo.
Seriously 100% agree that Terran is OP atm. Any terran who disagrees is clearly delusional. I'm zerg player and I have a winning record vs terran but boy do i have to work extra hard for those wins. Even against people im clearly better then.
And the reason T isn't winning all the tournaments is because most of the T's suck. And are just getting by with there OP race. So when they play someone 5x better then them they lose.
In all honesty though im really shocked that some of you terran players dont think your race is OP lol.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2010 23:29 [GiTM]-Ace wrote:
lol awesome blog yo.
Seriously 100% agree that Terran is OP atm. Any terran who disagrees is clearly delusional. I'm zerg player and I have a winning record vs terran but boy do i have to work extra hard for those wins. Even against people im clearly better then.
And the reason T isn't winning all the tournaments is because most of the T's suck. And are just getting by with there OP race. So when they play someone 5x better then them they lose.
In all honesty though im really shocked that some of you terran players dont think your race is OP lol.
How do you evaluate that you are "clearly better than" someone else? Players at Idra's level have a baseline of RTS skill based on SC1, but at lower- and mid- levels what are you using to judge that you're playing 5x better than someone else?
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Lol this is like sc1 where most sc1 players say protoss is the easiest race to use. And it is. Protoss players even generally agree. Now in sc2 we have terran players saying terran is balanced or even underpowered? WTF?!?
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United States47024 Posts
On August 02 2010 06:53 Chronopolis wrote:
Lol this is like sc1 where most sc1 players say protoss is the easiest race to use. And it is. Protoss players even generally agree. Now in sc2 we have terran players saying terran is balanced or even underpowered? WTF?!?
To be fair, IIRC the Protoss easy race meme didn't come into existence until after forge fast expand became standard play in PvZ.
I agree that TvZ is imbalanced atm, but I think it's premature to be calling any race easy at this stage. Not to mention that "easy" and "imbalanced" are not the same thing.
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I'm trying to remember who said that by the time the first Zealot was trained that T already had 2 rines and a M being trained.... It might have been on the Bnet forums...
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EPT
