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Starcraft players have to live an obsessive, singleminded lifestyle if they wish to succeed. It's this attitude that then gets passed to the audience who in turn are pretty nuts. I mean, I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily, yet a large percentage of the audience is made up by others who don't even speak the language.
This thread is twofold :
1- I'm curious if anyone has not only learned SC/culture surrounding it, but applied these ideas to their real life. Do you find this culture has sort of awakened something in you ? I've seen some people who were pretty lazy but then became massively focused and dedicated once they found SC.
2- The second thing is my own answer to the first question and I hope I can get some discussion on it.
***Some required backstory***
I'm majoring in classical guitar at university, going into my last year. I've been consistent in my progress and am known to be good at some things on the instrument and lacking others. I started a little later than most. A have a very close friend in the same boat. We both try and hold to the belief that If you're going to do bother taking on any task at all, you might as well do it to the best of your ability. Long story short, after this year we will both be done school, but being just shy of having the skills needed to start winning larger competitions.
The Practice House
So we've decided we will live together and practice 7 hours a day (which seems to be the absolute top of what our bodies can take on the instrument ) in 4 hours and 3 hour sessions. In all likely hood it will be sharing bunk beds in a 1 bedroom, depending on what sort of accommodations we can find. We haven't really really decided on a city yet and are open up to ideas, but it has to be large enough to have a university, as well as have _Some_ musical opportunity (fancy restaurants, maybe some artsy culture).
We plan on doing this for 3 years . That's 7665 hours of practice. They say mastery is 10,000 and I've already been at it in university for a few years.
When it's all said and done we will be just 25 and have a world in front of us to be well equipped to participate in. Their will be great challenges and mental breakdowns I'm sure; But I look forward to how this can shape my outlook on the world, self motivation, and my appreciation of these sets of 24 hours linked together seemingly endlessly, but not infinitely.
It made me wonder why this sort of thing isn't more common as it's wildly efficient, but I understand a lot of it stems from European values like entitlement, personal space, ownership, and things like that.
Points to Ponder
Would you ever consider doing a thing like this for something you want to spend the rest of your life doing? Why don't you ? I agree that it's hard to find likeminded individuals for this kind of thing. Are you lazy to take the initiative, or scared for what might / might not become of you during the House life, and life after?
  
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On June 12 2010 01:07 ella_guru wrote:
I mean, I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily, yet a large percentage of the audience is made up by others who don't even speak the language.
What percentage of the fans of korean sc do you think are non-koreans? I think you are probably overestimating it.
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it's an interesting and logical idea, but how are you going to pay for room and board during that time? also, should you fail, the consequences are pretty bad. that is probably what stops most people from doing stuff like that.
edit: not to mention a lot of the things people would want to concentrate like this on would not pay even if they succeeded in becoming amazing
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Wow good luck, dedication is a very good skill to have, and I lack it 
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On June 12 2010 01:20 Crunchums wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2010 01:07 ella_guru wrote:
I mean, I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily, yet a large percentage of the audience is made up by others who don't even speak the language. What percentage of the fans of korean sc do you think are non-koreans? I think you are probably overestimating it.
probably about 5% ? The term " a lot " being relative.
On June 12 2010 01:23 Crunchums wrote:
it's an interesting and logical idea, but how are you going to pay for room and board during that time? also, should you fail, the consequences are pretty bad. that is probably what stops most people from doing stuff like that.
edit: not to mention a lot of the things people would want to concentrate like this on would not pay even if they succeeded in becoming amazing
I teach guitar and perform for money. It's how I live (meagerly and happily) right now and is not very time consuming at all.
Though I wonder what you mean by "fail" . How can this plan "fail" and what are the bad consequences?I'm Not being interrogative or aggressive, I just can't come up with an answer on my own. It seems like to not commit to your projects or tasks is a much more surefire way to fail. You could argue the "all your eggs in one basket" type of thing, but the mindset you gain from this sort of thing is a very valuable trait.
On June 12 2010 01:24 Sharkified wrote:Wow good luck, dedication is a very good skill to have, and I lack it
Thanks! If I remember and I'm still around TL I'll make sure to bring you guys on the journey.
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On June 12 2010 01:07 ella_guru wrote:
I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily,
How about Table Tennis? 
Well best of luck to you! This will take a lot of dedication but I envy your passion for music ^^.
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On June 12 2010 01:37 commiboi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2010 01:07 ella_guru wrote:
I can't think of _any_ sports which are dominated by one people so heavily, How about Table Tennis?
HAH I had a lol on this. But SC is very different. I mean, literally, no one can compete with the Koreans anymore. Just look at WCG, or the relative success of foreigners in korea (Idra SC fighting!)
This sort of thing makes me wonder - is it a chicken or the eggs type deal? I mean, a person like Flash, would he have been very focused in anything he does just because he cares about what he is doing? Or, did SC awaken that aspect in him, is it really the one thing he cares about so much, but if not for it would he be a lazy scrub hanging out in shopping malls? Finally, it seems pretty clear to me that this trait will remain with him, which makes the previous two questions all the more salient.
I guess I'm just interested in achieving my personal best, but I also knowthat for people my age it can be incredibly difficult to consistently apply yourself, so I'm curious if it's innate or awakened......
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Go for it.
MY ONE IMPORTANT ADVICE!!!
Make sure you actually enjoy not only winning aclaim by doing whatever you do, but also enjoy practicing and performing it. If you don't like practicing your skill, forcing yourself into a commitment will be utter hell and doomed to fail.
I thought I loved swimming for 6 years of my life and competed and practiced at an elite level, but in the end I realized I actually just like the winning part and hated the training. Although I felt terrible quitting and "giving up" on 6 years of commitment, I am SOOOO glad I did. Now I switched over to Rock climbing, which I love every second of.
In my experience, even if you manage to stick to something you don't truly enjoy, it will be a half hearted effort and you will end up stuck in high-end mediocrity.
Make sure you pick the right thing to commit too, and don't be afraid to switch if you find out something isn't going to work out. Forcing passion is not going to work.
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Success
There's more than the 10,000 hour rule when it comes to Starcraft. If you're just graduating from university then you may already be too old to be a world class player. Consider the careers of every single successful Starcraft player in the modern Korean scene. Every player's performance seems to drop starting around age 20 and fall off into oblivion shortly after. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe it's the path of the night. Maybe it's simply something that happens as you age.
Maybe SC2's UI will overcome some of the associated deficits. Maybe the effect is an illusion. Regardless, you need to strongly consider the possibility that your age precludes you from mastering the game.
In the foreign scene we've got plenty of oldsters winning events, but that may change with Starcraft 2. SCBW saw many revolutions: APM, replays, the pro scene. There was never much new blood that entered the game after those revolutions, except inside Korea. It's possible those revolutions were what transformed SCBW into a young man's game (early SCBW winners were often 20+). Starcraft 2, however is much like SCBW post-revolutions. It may that SC2 is destined to be dominated by teenagers. Make sure you strongly consider the possibility that an age-limiting effect exists and that it may preclude you from ever being competitive in the fiercely competitive environment that will surely exist for SC2.
Culture / Personal Development
Don't look to Starcraft as a unique avenue for personal development. I've played Starcraft for 13 years, and I've extremely fortunate to meet some of my best friends through Starcraft. However, despite my extremely good fortune, I still think that almost everything else in my life has been more important to my personal growth. I don't say this lightly since I'm more or less addicted to Starcraft and have probably invested more time in it than anything else I've done.
Frankly, the Starcraft culture sucks (at least outside of Asia). TL.net is the best site around, but the vast majority of posters here still suck. The strategy forums are virtually unreadable (protip: if you actually think the advice given in these strategy forums is valuable then do not even consider getting a Starcraft house. There is a reason why good players are at around a 1:200 posting ratio in the SC2/SCBW forums).
Even the personal relationships you make in Starcraft 2 are likely to revolve around Starcraft 2. Healthy relationships that will help you grow as a person need to be much more dynamic and involve many more elements than a single video game.
Conclusion
There's a prevailing notion that we shouldn't try to dissuade people from chasing their dreams. I think that's true only if the person has any idea of where their course of action will take them. I want to dissuade you from doing this because you will not become any better equipped for real life after these three years are over. You will be worse off because your employer will want to know what the hell you've done for these three years, and you'll say "Starcraft 2." You are not likely to succeed at Starcraft 2. Even if there is no age barrier to Starcraft success, there's still a tremendous talent barrier, not unlike becoming a professional athlete -- yet should you succeed your rewards are meager by comparison. And you will not be more likely to grow as a person by pursuing this route. There's nothing you will learn from sitting in front of a computer screen all day that you would not learn equally fast by living in the world. And there is a lot you'll miss.
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sob3k that's awesome advice. I'm glad you made the right decision and it will help me alot with my mental alignment stuff.
The flip side for those reading is to be careful not to just chase novelty, and quit when things get shakey.
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On June 12 2010 02:42 Failsafe wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Success
There's more than the 10,000 hour rule when it comes to Starcraft. If you're just graduating from university then you may already be too old to be a world class player. Consider the careers of every single successful Starcraft player in the modern Korean scene. Every player's performance seems to drop starting around age 20 and fall off into oblivion shortly after. Maybe it's burn out. Maybe it's the path of the night. Maybe it's simply something that happens as you age.
Maybe SC2's UI will overcome some of the associated deficits. Maybe the effect is an illusion. Regardless, you need to strongly consider the possibility that your age precludes you from mastering the game.
In the foreign scene we've got plenty of oldsters winning events, but that may change with Starcraft 2. SCBW saw many revolutions: APM, replays, the pro scene. There was never much new blood that entered the game after those revolutions, except inside Korea. It's possible those revolutions were what transformed SCBW into a young man's game (early SCBW winners were often 20+). Starcraft 2, however is much like SCBW post-revolutions. It may that SC2 is destined to be dominated by teenagers. Make sure you strongly consider the possibility that an age-limiting effect exists and that it may preclude you from ever being competitive in the fiercely competitive environment that will surely exist for SC2.
Culture / Personal Development
Don't look to Starcraft as a unique avenue for personal development. I've played Starcraft for 13 years, and I've extremely fortunate to meet some of my best friends through Starcraft. However, despite my extremely good fortune, I still think that almost everything else in my life has been more important to my personal growth. I don't say this lightly since I'm more or less addicted to Starcraft and have probably invested more time in it than anything else I've done.
Frankly, the Starcraft culture sucks (at least outside of Asia). TL.net is the best site around, but the vast majority of posters here still suck. The strategy forums are virtually unreadable (protip: if you actually think the advice given in these strategy forums is valuable then do not even consider getting a Starcraft house. There is a reason why good players are at around a 1:200 posting ratio in the SC2/SCBW forums).
Even the personal relationships you make in Starcraft 2 are likely to revolve around Starcraft 2. Healthy relationships that will help you grow as a person need to be much more dynamic and involve many more elements than a single video game.
Conclusion
There's a prevailing notion that we shouldn't try to dissuade people from chasing their dreams. I think that's true only if the person has any idea of where their course of action will take them. I want to dissuade you from doing this because you will not become any better equipped for real life after these three years are over. You will be worse off because your employer will want to know what the hell you've done for these three years, and you'll say "Starcraft 2." You are not likely to succeed at Starcraft 2. Even if there is no age barrier to Starcraft success, there's still a tremendous talent barrier, not unlike becoming a professional athlete -- yet should you succeed your rewards are meager by comparison. And you will not be more likely to grow as a person by pursuing this route. There's nothing you will learn from sitting in front of a computer screen all day that you would not learn equally fast by living in the world. And there is a lot you'll miss.
This is a great post and I don't want to make an ass of you but..
If your talking about my personal journey I've laid out, it's about taking the Practice House idea and applying it to guitar.
Don't lose this post because you can definitely C+P it somewhere! Also had a lol at how your fitting your name is.
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On June 12 2010 02:45 ella_guru wrote:
This is a great post and I don't want to make an ass of you but..
If your talking about my personal journey I've laid out, it's about taking the Practice House idea and applying it to guitar.
Don't lose this post because you can definitely C+P it somewhere! Also had a lol at how your fitting your name is.
LMFAO...
I love how people don't take 2 minutes to read what the thread is actually about, yet spend 10 minutes writing a long-winded reply.
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man, applying the practice house idea to guitar? is it really that fun?
I think the reason sc pros can stomach playing for so long is because the game is so dynamic and fun for them. Guitar may be fun for you, but I dunno, spending 10+ hrs a day practicing something uncompetitive would be too much
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I admire people like you that do things because u like it not because of $$$. becase of my Asian background $$$ is the priority so I am actually envious of your opportunity to fully practice what u love. regardless gl post some of your tunes
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On June 12 2010 03:01 sixghost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2010 02:45 ella_guru wrote:
This is a great post and I don't want to make an ass of you but..
If your talking about my personal journey I've laid out, it's about taking the Practice House idea and applying it to guitar.
Don't lose this post because you can definitely C+P it somewhere! Also had a lol at how your fitting your name is. LMFAO... I love how people don't take 2 minutes to read what the thread is actually about, yet spend 10 minutes writing a long-winded reply.
LOLOL his name is failsafe xD <3
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On June 12 2010 03:07 faction123 wrote:
man, applying the practice house idea to guitar? is it really that fun?
I think the reason sc pros can stomach playing for so long is because the game is so dynamic and fun for them. Guitar may be fun for you, but I dunno, spending 10+ hrs a day practicing something uncompetitive would be too much
Kindly read the OP : (
I said 4 and 3 hour sessions, 7 hours a day. We're working up to that by doing 3 and 2 hour sessions right now so I dont burn out fast when the time comes.
While it's not why I'm in it, guitar is very competitive. If you can win a couple of the big competitions , your career is set if you so choose.
But again, in the OP I mention that what I find fun about doing something is doing it well. It's no fun if you can only see a half assed version of your ability shine.
But yes, it is really that fun. It's not always easy, and it's not always THAT fun. but I think something we completely lack an understanding of over on the "white" side of things, is the idea of delayed satisfaction. I know if I have a good practice month and I've gained tangible skills, these skills will stay with me as long as I keep playing and that's a really special kind enjoyment, more of a contentment.
On June 12 2010 03:14 YPang wrote:
I admire people like you that do things because u like it not because of $$$. becase of my Asian background $$$ is the priority so I am actually envious of your opportunity to fully practice what u love. regardless gl post some of your tunes
Thanks for the support. It is an opportunity that I'm having to create a lot for myself. Going to school for music is a tough enough thing to agree to.
My logic simple.
Music is and will be my occupation and focus in life.
Barring some bad shit, I'll probably be alive for anywhere between 30-60 more years. So what's 3 years of really hard work if I plan on doing this the rest of my life anyway? It will serve me best if I get it in as soon as possible.
If you knew a business was going to succeed for 30-60 years, wouldn't you invest in it in the ground level? The returns would be massive.
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On June 12 2010 03:14 YPang wrote:
I admire people like you that do things because u like it not because of $$$. becase of my Asian background $$$ is the priority so I am actually envious of your opportunity to fully practice what u love. regardless gl post some of your tunes
what a cop out. it isn't because of your Asian background. You chose to accept this mindset, and you yourself decided to prioritize money over anything else in this world.
anyways good luck op, and nice call on including someone else in this endeavor making it much harder for you to quit.
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We haven't really really decided on a city yet and are open up to ideas, but it has to be large enough to have a university, as well as have _Some_ musical opportunity (fancy restaurants, maybe some artsy culture).
Recommend Ottawa. Has good art scene, decent sized itself; as well as being conveniently located between Toronto and Montreal, where I'm guessing "most" of the action would be.
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On June 12 2010 03:41 Inkarnate wrote:Show nested quote + We haven't really really decided on a city yet and are open up to ideas, but it has to be large enough to have a university, as well as have _Some_ musical opportunity (fancy restaurants, maybe some artsy culture).
Recommend Ottawa. Has good art scene, decent sized itself; as well as being conveniently located between Toronto and Montreal, where I'm guessing "most" of the action would be.
Hah yea, it treats me pretty good and I give it a back rub once in a while.
Are you from there by chance?
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EPT
