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Okay, so as I've been starting to play with higher level players, I've been noticing the amount of bm increase each time. BM of course means Bad-mannered. There are two types of BM that I'll break it down to: Idra BM and non-Idra BM.
Idra BM of course is named after our fellow CJ Entus Progamer, Idra. ![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/gfx/IdrA%20-%20CJ%20Entus1.jpg)
Looking good Idra.
Idra has become notorious throughout the Teamliquid community by the way he reacts when he loses to players he wouldn't expect to lose to, especially by cheese. BM statements such as "a useful skill toi have" and "Isn't it funny, you won without doing a single thing" have become Teamliquid memes. But usually, Idra has started becoming more good mannered and even when he does rage quit, it isn't as pure rage as before. Therefore, I characterize Idra BM as more of a lesser, more light-hearted type of BM.
In my own personal opinion, I have no problem with this type of BM. I think a little BM definitely can melt the ice in competitions and ease up players with a little humor involved.
The other type of BM, which I call non-Idra BM, is a different story. I believe this BM is worse than Idra BM, because the player in question who is BMing starts to blame losses on other factors such as lag, which may be even nonexistent. This type of BM may also characterize players who believe they are superior to everyone else and have bursts of invective against other players who they have lost to. Players who may even just do anything to piss another person off just because they lost to that said person. This kind of BM is what I have problems with. This is just pure rage and there's nothing humorous involved. Just all about anger and hate.
![[image loading]](http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/Zegz0y3tyP0/hqdefault.jpg)
No guy, you're not good.
And lately, I have been seeing more non-Idra BM lately in the Beta at the higher levels. It's a shame, because I think the higher players get, the more arrogant and haughty they become and they get all full of themselves. I just wish in the US servers, players would be more good mannered and accept losses with a good spirit. I mean take a look at the European and Asian servers. What exactly is wrong here?
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I wish more people would be good mannered everywhere in life haha. But I guess it's just something we have to deal with at times. I can't really tell you what's wrong other than that's just the way a lot of people are unfortunately.
I wouldn't want to get all technical and psychoanalytic talking about their possible childhoods and whatnot. 
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We're americans and we hate to lose.
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From my point of view, and who knows me knows I'm really eager and always want to win, its really hard to play an unbalanced game where you sometimes totally play amazing in point of macro and control and still lose due to some imbalanced stuff.
I don't want to break down a balance discussion here, but it explains a lot of anger and rage in the early Sc2 Beta stage. I got no problem with losing in a game the other player played a better game, hell let it even be a cheese, but its definately driving me insane if some Protoss tells me that Terran is far superior and storm doesn't do shit anymore, while he totally rapes my army even though he got hit by 6 EMPs and I got like 20 Tanks on a cliff-_-
So... also you have to see that its not only Sc:BW players now, its W3, C&C, WOW... etc
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Being bad manner is fun(ny). Maybe I'm the only one but I love bming after the game and the follow up whispers I get, which are even more BM. And then when you WIN next time and use the offensive BM it's even funnier. Players that are BM are the people who aren't cowards, and aren't afraid to speak their minds anonymously over the internet.
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Do people seriously care if someone "BMs" you? Hahahaha welcome to the internet, clowns.
NOT GOOD MANNERED, IM RAGING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE RAGING.
Get over it already
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On April 18 2010 10:21 Romantic wrote:
Do people seriously care if someone "BMs" you? Hahahaha welcome to the internet, clowns.
NOT GOOD MANNERED, IM RAGING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE RAGING.
Get over it already
You bring up a good point, saying that it's the Internet. Yet keep in mind, something that is really valued in a competitive game like this is respect, integrity, and honor. That means BMing doesn't really fall under those categories. Even Idra does have respect for the players he loses to even though in the immediate aftermath of the game he may not show it. Players who exhibit the second type of BM which I like to coin as "Non-Idra BM" don't even have this respect.
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The point is? Do you want to ban people for expressing their lack of enjoyment? It is a video game with a chat feature. It is meant to be FUN.
The simple fact that I know people get seriously hotnbothered by bad manners makes me do it even more
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On April 18 2010 10:24 Prozen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 10:21 Romantic wrote:
Do people seriously care if someone "BMs" you? Hahahaha welcome to the internet, clowns.
NOT GOOD MANNERED, IM RAGING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE RAGING.
Get over it already You bring up a good point, saying that it's the Internet. Yet keep in mind, something that is really valued in a competitive game like this is respect, integrity, and honor. That means BMing doesn't really fall under those categories. Even Idra does have respect for the players he loses to even though in the immediate aftermath of the game he may not show it. Players who exhibit the second type of BM which I like to coin as "Non-Idra BM" don't even have this respect.
Idra isn't notorious for lighthearted BM, he's notorious for calling people "faggots" and "fucking homos" after losses. I don't see how someone can see that kind of BM not being as bad as someone saying "you are terrible and lucky" at the end of a game. The only reason he doesn't do that anymore is because he's in the spotlight, not because he's lighthearted or changed (lol).
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On April 18 2010 10:28 PokePill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 10:24 Prozen wrote:On April 18 2010 10:21 Romantic wrote:
Do people seriously care if someone "BMs" you? Hahahaha welcome to the internet, clowns.
NOT GOOD MANNERED, IM RAGING ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE RAGING.
Get over it already You bring up a good point, saying that it's the Internet. Yet keep in mind, something that is really valued in a competitive game like this is respect, integrity, and honor. That means BMing doesn't really fall under those categories. Even Idra does have respect for the players he loses to even though in the immediate aftermath of the game he may not show it. Players who exhibit the second type of BM which I like to coin as "Non-Idra BM" don't even have this respect. Idra isn't notorious for lighthearted BM, he's notorious for calling people "faggots" and "fucking homos" after losses. I don't see how someone can see that kind of BM not being as bad as someone saying "you are terrible and lucky" at the end of a game. The only reason he doesn't do that anymore is because he's in the spotlight, not because he's lighthearted or changed (lol).
I don't think so actually. I think his staying in Korea, where a lot of good-mannered progamers reside, has really changed him. I didn't say he was notorious for lighthearted BM. I know he is notorious for his huge disrespectful BM, but that was before he changed. I refer to the way he BMs now just as "Idra BM" because I don't think he BMs out of pure rage now, I believe there's some humor involved in it nowadays. He definitely doesn't BM out of pure rage now just because he's in the spotlight. He's done that before actually.
The point is? Do you want to ban people for expressing their lack of enjoyment? It is a video game with a chat feature. It is meant to be FUN.
The simple fact that I know people get seriously hotnbothered by bad manners makes me do it even more
This perhaps may apply to your average player just playing the game for fun, but the type of players that I am referring to who competitive players, who play for the money and fame.
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The only bm i see in sc2 right now is people not gg ing but I really don't mind it
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Well, if they play for money then it might be a bad business investment. Let 'em have at it. If they play for fame... you're making threads about them so they are doing something right.
There, debate solved.
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On April 18 2010 10:45 Romantic wrote:
Well, if they play for money then it might be a bad business investment. Let 'em have at it. If they play for fame... you're making threads about them so they are doing something right.
There, debate solved.
That's a non-sequitur. I'm talking about how some players are becoming more arrogant as they get better and start to get BM, not about why they BM.
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deal with it, its the world ^^
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What do you expect when you are playing a competitive game vs anonymous, teen-age/young adult male opponents?
And yes hostility does tend to increase when experience increases I've found.
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How do you know when he blames on lag theres actually no lag? For the majority of the games I play, for example, it lags the entire game for me and it doesn't lag for the opponent
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On April 18 2010 13:09 Exteray wrote:
How do you know when he blames on lag theres actually no lag? For the majority of the games I play, for example, it lags the entire game for me and it doesn't lag for the opponent
For example, it will lag for like probably two seconds when a drop screen shows up and when your opponent loses, he will blame his loss entirely on that two seconds of lag that was probably insignificant. Those kinds of things I am talking about.
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On April 18 2010 10:20 PokePill wrote:
Players that are BM are the people who aren't cowards, and aren't afraid to speak their minds anonymously over the internet.
I kinda see what you're saying, but then it's pretty contradictory with the whole anonymous thing.
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On April 18 2010 10:53 Prozen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 10:45 Romantic wrote:
Well, if they play for money then it might be a bad business investment. Let 'em have at it. If they play for fame... you're making threads about them so they are doing something right.
There, debate solved. That's a non-sequitur. I'm talking about how some players are becoming more arrogant as they get better and start to get BM, not about why they BM.
I remember this in Call of Duty 2 back when it was all over the leagues.
Tons of players who were good (not great) that put themselves in some sort of imaginary spotlight, and would trash people constantly when they were challenged or things didn't go their way. They would lose and just refused to accept defeat. Then I remember seeing a lot of the higher level players, the guys who actually would go beyond CAL-O into CAL-I or CPL or CEVO-P, and they'd have a lot more restraint and respect for people, although it wasn't always the case. Then I always get stories that Quake players are really respectful, and for the most part, Starcraft players seem to be pretty good, although I think this "demographic" is going to become more prominent as it becomes more apparent there's competition to be had. I do remember years ago on Bnet, though, many players with horrid attitudes.
I can't tell if it's just ego, or if they are just desperate to be something really bad that they get defensive or try to put themselves in that position in their head.
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Jock idra more plz
bm is bm man. One way of doing it is not justified more because of a known bmer 's style of bm.
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I think a good portion of BM, as someone stated before, is caused when someone gets too full of themselves when they climb a higher rank.
I think you need to find a fine balance between being really competitive and being modest enough to know you always have room to improve.
Honestly, I'm sort of not looking forward to the end of the beta when a ton of people get their hands on the game thinking they're be tactical geniuses, then totally swearing everyone out when they lose. The American audience is definitely a lot more hostile when they lose, and if e-sports ever gets big in the US, I hope they retain the same kind of quiet respectable mannerisms carried through Korean Proleagues instead of loud pomp and circumstance trash talk like in Wrestling. Highly unlikely though, but we'll see.
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I never gg or gl hf, i could care less if people did it to me. Who cares. Enough of this BM stuff.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 18 2010 16:46 RageOverdose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2010 10:53 Prozen wrote:On April 18 2010 10:45 Romantic wrote:
Well, if they play for money then it might be a bad business investment. Let 'em have at it. If they play for fame... you're making threads about them so they are doing something right.
There, debate solved. That's a non-sequitur. I'm talking about how some players are becoming more arrogant as they get better and start to get BM, not about why they BM. I remember this in Call of Duty 2 back when it was all over the leagues. Tons of players who were good (not great) that put themselves in some sort of imaginary spotlight, and would trash people constantly when they were challenged or things didn't go their way. They would lose and just refused to accept defeat. Then I remember seeing a lot of the higher level players, the guys who actually would go beyond CAL-O into CAL-I or CPL or CEVO-P, and they'd have a lot more restraint and respect for people, although it wasn't always the case. Then I always get stories that Quake players are really respectful, and for the most part, Starcraft players seem to be pretty good, although I think this "demographic" is going to become more prominent as it becomes more apparent there's competition to be had. I do remember years ago on Bnet, though, many players with horrid attitudes. I can't tell if it's just ego, or if they are just desperate to be something really bad that they get defensive or try to put themselves in that position in their head. Uh.. Nightfall? I think the politeness in Quake has more to do with the European centric community, but ESreality is still pretty brutal.
I think you might just be cherry picking the parts you want to remember. The top levels of CS always had huge BM, and it wasn't just in teamchat or IRC. I remember getting packeted in the playoffs against DZ, and I remember plenty of CAL-i channels where people got packeted.
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Sorry for bumping, but I really think this is a interesting topic.
On April 18 2010 12:43 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:
What do you expect when you are playing a competitive game vs anonymous, teen-age/young adult male opponents?
You make a good point there. That's exactly why the internets is crawling with BM, it's alla about male puberty (kinda). And that's sad. If SC2 actually will become a respected e-sport we have to have a ethics about how to act during gametime. Other sports do. We can't let puberty decide.
But at the same time, as many of you have said, it's amateurs playing and that's supposed to be fun. But at high level games, I would like to se some sportmanship and respect for the other players hard work getting to that level.
Sorry for my english, it's not my native language.
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If you don't get mad at losing, then you don't care enough. Everyone has there own way of dealing with bullshit.
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I never understood how you could actually get worked up at someone bming you....
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I always gl in the beginning and gg when i lose.
I only get worked up when the opponent starts trash talking if they're ahead. The infamous "just stop playing the game"... really grinds my gears.
Then there was some foreigner on the US server or something that said "You sex too much". What is that even supposed to mean??? Is that a taunt or a commendation?
BM is just a part of the game.
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I've been playing LoL lately and it seems the ratio of BM to GM is around 50/50. It's funny when people are BM when they are winning. I tend to enjoy the conversations I have with people when they think it's cool or funny to be a total dick. However, I always let people know that I appreciate their GM by saying something like, "good manners ftw" or "gg good manners." I hate having a rager/BM on my team though. It makes for very awkward games.
The only BM I really don't mind is anything clearly lighthearted. For example: I just walked 12 zealots into a minefield - I'm disappointed if my opponent doesn't say "LOL" or "owned." But then again I'm a casualfag laddernoob. 
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On July 20 2010 02:02 Hawk wrote:
I never understood how you could actually get worked up at someone bming you....
Agreed, I have to listen to you BMing me everyday and frankly I enjoy it.
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EPT
