Translated from a Chinese article, and much simplified:
Immediately after Google announced its intention to leave China on its official blog, everyone in Google China no longer had the ability to access the code server. They only found this after going to work in the morning and trying to access the home directory, and there were people writing code at the time but could not proceed anymore. All this happened very suddenly, and no one in Google China knew this was going to happen. In normal situations Google would not have to do this. But in this case, Google could not trust Google China any more, because one (or many) of Google China's employees (who would also work for the Chinese government) have been stealing code and give them to the government. These people would also be responsible for finding the Gmail accounts of political dissidents, and probably finding Gmail's vulnerabilities used for hacking later. When Google said it suffered from "theft of intellectual property", it wasn't laying, except people probably thought differently. The existence of Google China would threaten the entire Google's survival. Even though China is such a huge growing market that Google definitely wants to be part of, in this case Google just does not have an option. When Google said that it will negotiate with the Chinese government to operate an unfiltered search engine, it actually means that it will leave no matter what, even if somehow the government allows that, Google cannot stay, does not want to stay, cannot afford to stay. Of course people expecting other foreign companies to follow suit and leave China will be disappointed, as they are not in such a difficult situation as Google, at least not yet.
UPDATED: Sorry I'm not going to disclose my chinese sources, but here are the English ones:
Also, there have been rumors that Google is not going to pull out after all, supposedly after "talks" with the Chinese government. It is obvious that China does not want Google out. So they made a deal it would seem.
I do think it was awesome of Google to tell China to remove censorship, even if they didn't intend to negotiate at all in the first place. It's kind of like a final "you guys all suck and you can't even call my bluff" farewell.
The source is not very credible itself, but what happened in Google China, ie everyone was blocked access to code all of a sudden and chaos ensued etc, this was confirmed by many Chinese new sources.
On January 16 2010 14:34 StRyKeR wrote: I do think it was awesome of Google to tell China to remove censorship, even if they didn't intend to negotiate at all in the first place. It's kind of like a final "you guys all suck and you can't even call my bluff" farewell.
Yea I think it's a very nice move by google. It gets very good PR from the US, and it leaves the Chinese government with no option but to force Google to leave.
On January 16 2010 15:25 haduken wrote: Complete utter bullshit.
There are 100+ Android developers that will remain in China after google's pullout.
I'd don't understand what part your specifically refuting or know exactly what an "Android developer" is or why there existence is relevant; could you explain?
I hate the Chinese Goverment with SUCH passion... i hate all governments as a matter of fact, but the dudes over there are really fascist communists... the only form communism has taken place on this earth. Complete denial of privacy and fascistic behavior.
On January 16 2010 15:35 Daemonarch wrote: I hate the Chinese Goverment with SUCH passion... i hate all governments as a matter of fact, but the dudes over there are really fascist communists... the only form communism has taken place on this earth. Complete denial of privacy and fascistic behavior.
On January 16 2010 15:25 haduken wrote: Complete utter bullshit.
There are 100+ Android developers that will remain in China after google's pullout.
I'd don't understand what part your specifically refuting or know exactly what an "Android developer" is or why there existence is relevant; could you explain?
Android OS (The operating system behind the Nexus, G1 phones). It's google's open sourced mobile platform Operating System and used by google and other major corporations.
The Chinese android development team, consists of 100+ people will continue to remain in China after google.cn's pullout.
The OP is claiming that the source code server is cut off from China, how is that possible when much of the development for Android IS in China?
On January 16 2010 15:25 haduken wrote: Complete utter bullshit.
There are 100+ Android developers that will remain in China after google's pullout.
I'd don't understand what part your specifically refuting or know exactly what an "Android developer" is or why there existence is relevant; could you explain?
Android OS (The operating system behind the Nexus, G1 phones). It's google's open sourced mobile platform Operating System and used by google and other major corporations.
The Chinese android development team, consists of 100+ people will continue to remain in China after google.cn's pullout.
The OP is claiming that the source code server is cut off from China, how is that possible when much of the development for Android IS in China?
I would guess that the the android development team would not have access to the server code of Google's search engine in the first place. I don't know much about operating systems for mobile phones but I think search engine is quite different.
On January 16 2010 15:02 SonuvBob wrote: How credible is the source for this?
Not trying to discredit the OP, but a "translated" article with no source and no original text is pretty fishy.
Use critical thinking skills. It makes a lot of sense. Does that make it true? Of course not, but neither does a "credible source" make something true.
Sources proving that: Immediately after Google announced its intention to leave China on its official blog, everyone in Google China no longer had the ability to access the code server. They only found this after going to work in the morning and trying to access the home directory, and there were people writing code at the time but could not proceed anymore. All this happened very suddenly, and no one in Google China knew this was going to happen.
original chinese texts: 谷歌要退出中国了吗？谷歌总部借用一篇博客宣告“考虑关闭谷歌中国网站以及中国办事处”，不仅令舆论哗然，也将谷歌中国的员工们抛向巨大的失落。直到昨天早上，谷歌中国方面包括刘允在内的老总们都对此毫不知情。他们在上班后惊奇地发现，谷歌中国的内网已经全部切断。知情人士透露，“员工都很失落，但也没事情干，三三两两地玩游戏。”好在目前谷歌那一直让业界称羡的食堂还将正常运营几天，估计员工们还会继续来这里“玩游戏”，而且可以带薪休假。
On January 16 2010 15:50 haduken wrote: Android OS (The operating system behind the Nexus, G1 phones). It's google's open sourced mobile platform Operating System and used by google and other major corporations.
The Chinese android development team, consists of 100+ people will continue to remain in China after google.cn's pullout.
The OP is claiming that the source code server is cut off from China, how is that possible when much of the development for Android IS in China?
Didn't you just answer your own question?
On January 16 2010 15:53 fight_or_flight wrote: Use critical thinking skills. It makes a lot of sense. Does that make it true? Of course not, but neither does a "credible source" make something true.
And making sense AND having a credible source makes it more likely that it's true.
On January 16 2010 15:59 iloahz wrote: Sources proving that: Immediately after Google announced its intention to leave China on its official blog, everyone in Google China no longer had the ability to access the code server. They only found this after going to work in the morning and trying to access the home directory, and there were people writing code at the time but could not proceed anymore. All this happened very suddenly, and no one in Google China knew this was going to happen.
original chinese texts: 谷歌要退出中国了吗？谷歌总部借用一篇博客宣告“考虑关闭谷歌中国网站以及中国办事处”，不仅令舆论哗然，也将谷歌中国的员工们抛向巨大的失落。直到昨天早上，谷歌中国方面包括刘允在内的老总们都对此毫不知情。他们在上班后惊奇地发现，谷歌中国的内网已经全部切断。知情人士透露，“员工都很失落，但也没事情干，三三两两地玩游戏。”好在目前谷歌那一直让业界称羡的食堂还将正常运营几天，估计员工们还会继续来这里“玩游戏”，而且可以带薪休假。
Do those links actually indicate theft of intellectual property from google? My chinese isn't great but I can't seem to find it in the bunch of ones i clicked. This whole "cutting google china out" thing could just be a preventative measure?
On January 16 2010 15:50 haduken wrote: Android OS (The operating system behind the Nexus, G1 phones). It's google's open sourced mobile platform Operating System and used by google and other major corporations.
The Chinese android development team, consists of 100+ people will continue to remain in China after google.cn's pullout.
The OP is claiming that the source code server is cut off from China, how is that possible when much of the development for Android IS in China?
On January 16 2010 15:53 fight_or_flight wrote: Use critical thinking skills. It makes a lot of sense. Does that make it true? Of course not, but neither does a "credible source" make something true.
And making sense AND having a credible source makes it more likely that it's true.
Open sourced doesn't mean that google don't have their own IP. I find it strange that android can continue while lacking resources from google.
Chinese government weather balloon. Google was one of 30 businesses which were targeted, it google detected it in mid-December, which is why they waited over a month to block their own branch? And it's been described as an unprecedentedly sophisticated attack, comparable more to a attempts to hack into defense information.
On January 16 2010 15:35 Daemonarch wrote: I hate the Chinese Goverment with SUCH passion... i hate all governments as a matter of fact, but the dudes over there are really fascist communists... the only form communism has taken place on this earth. Complete denial of privacy and fascistic behavior.
On January 16 2010 15:35 Daemonarch wrote: I hate the Chinese Goverment with SUCH passion... i hate all governments as a matter of fact, but the dudes over there are really fascist communists... the only form communism has taken place on this earth. Complete denial of privacy and fascistic behavior.
On January 16 2010 15:59 iloahz wrote: Sources proving that: Immediately after Google announced its intention to leave China on its official blog, everyone in Google China no longer had the ability to access the code server. They only found this after going to work in the morning and trying to access the home directory, and there were people writing code at the time but could not proceed anymore. All this happened very suddenly, and no one in Google China knew this was going to happen.
original chinese texts: 谷歌要退出中国了吗？谷歌总部借用一篇博客宣告“考虑关闭谷歌中国网站以及中国办事处”，不仅令舆论哗然，也将谷歌中国的员工们抛向巨大的失落。直到昨天早上，谷歌中国方面包括刘允在内的老总们都对此毫不知情。他们在上班后惊奇地发现，谷歌中国的内网已经全部切断。知情人士透露，“员工都很失落，但也没事情干，三三两两地玩游戏。”好在目前谷歌那一直让业界称羡的食堂还将正常运营几天，估计员工们还会继续来这里“玩游戏”，而且可以带薪休假。
can you post the source for this passage?
In normal situations Google would not have to do this. But in this case, Google could not trust Google China any more, because one (or many) of Google China's employees (who would also work for the Chinese government) have been stealing code and give them to the government.
Remember, when the chinese media explains the real motivation behind people, the Dalai Lama becomes a violent terrorist who seeks the destruction of China.
And obviously Google China created a sophisticated application to download spyware through an internet explorer vulnerability, then systematically emailed employees with links to the spyware, instead of installing their trojans directly onto the computer they have access to.
On January 16 2010 15:35 Daemonarch wrote: I hate the Chinese Goverment with SUCH passion... i hate all governments as a matter of fact, but the dudes over there are really fascist communists... the only form communism has taken place on this earth. Complete denial of privacy and fascistic behavior.
lololol fascist communists!! that's a first
Both are Totalitarian regimes, throughout history. Although ideologically Communism shouldn't be. Fascism grants supreme undeniable power to cult-persona. There was a documentary recently that clearly shoved that more people suffered and died due to Communist regimes (and their decisions there of), then Fascist. Not that i like any from the two.
On January 16 2010 15:35 Daemonarch wrote: I hate the Chinese Goverment with SUCH passion... i hate all governments as a matter of fact, but the dudes over there are really fascist communists... the only form communism has taken place on this earth. Complete denial of privacy and fascistic behavior.
You can't be a fascist communist. It's like having a hot block of ice. They're diametrical political ideologies.
Now back up your claims that contemporary China is a fascist country where there's a complete denial of privacy and people are dying and suffering in significant numbers.
On January 16 2010 15:35 Daemonarch wrote: I hate the Chinese Goverment with SUCH passion... i hate all governments as a matter of fact, but the dudes over there are really fascist communists... the only form communism has taken place on this earth. Complete denial of privacy and fascistic behavior.
You can't be a fascist communist. It's like having a hot block of ice. They're diametrical political ideologies.
@ghostWriter, i over exaggerated with the attribute giving with a reason. Go figure it out what it is. And if you think the both are quote-on-quote "diametrical" regimes, you prolly have poor knowledge in history.
@Dracid, Youtube ban & Tiananmen Square Students protests of 1989. And the later being utter open crime against intellectuals to-be (emphasize on STUDENT). Really when i indulge myself in dreams of utopia i get nerd rage when i realize that stuff like these went through-out time unpunished. And i hear you, comming at me with "How do we punish that?". The answer is, abolish the regime that made the decision.
Not as many casualties, but emphasis on STUDENTS. So we should get rid of the US government as well? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify what happened at Tiananmen, but you really need something a little more substantial before saying the government should be abolished.
As for unpunished? Take a look at western imperialism, take a look at what the US did to Latin America, take a look at any number of other travesties commited by nations around the globe. If you think communist or fascist governments are the only ones who have done wrong to the world, you have a lot of history to learn.
As for youtube ban being a denial of privacy... I... I don't even know what to say. That's censorship from western influences, it has nothing to do with the privacy of Chinese citizens. It's funny because you actually don't have much of a right to privacy from the government in China, and yet you cite youtube censorship as why the government is tyrannical?
Seriously four dead students? 67 rounds being fired for 13 seconds? For a cause? Yep, there wasn't no way around a group of 500( In T.Square 10,000!!) students (read: geeks) with firm ideology. Dude on Tiananmen Square, fucking tanks rolled. Rolled against the same values you and me enjoy for granted. You unprecedentedly mentioned US over Latin countries. We are debating regimes that are denying rights/torturing their own people. We have to look way ahead in a future, where one nation is giving everything to help some other nation, not for some UN publicity crap. That's a whole new topic what so ever.
And you see you even dare to think of banning youtube as some sort of censorship, instead of seeing it for what it is - prevention of information. Simple as that. Censorship deals with materials not suitable for some group of mass (Sexual Content - Kids, etc).
I cited youtube cause it was the first thing that popped on my mind and it is something most of us can relate.
My point with the Kent State Shootings is that students being killed from protests isn't something exclusive to China. The scale is considerably different, but it's still a case of a government using lethal force in response to student protests.
As for regimes torturing their own people: slavery, genocides, etc. Plenty of countries have done terrible things to their own people as well. History is filled with examples of countries that have done terrible things to other countries as well as their own, and many of those governments are still going strong today. There's no reason to single out China as a country that has gone unpunished for its actions.
Prevention of information is censorship, check any dictionary. In this case, the government has decided that it's information that's not suitable for a group of people, the populace. It's debatable whether or not that's a good decision, but you've yet to explain how blocking access to youtube is a good reason to overthrow the government.
You say you HATE the Chinese government, yet you seem to know very, very little about it. The media points at them, tells you they're the bad guys, and you seem to just accept that. You talk as though the Chinese government makes life miserable for the population, when most Chinese would argue that the opposite is true. I guarantee you, life in China isn't nearly as bad as you think.
On January 16 2010 14:28 iloahz wrote: Google could not trust Google China any more, because one (or many) of Google China's employees (who would also work for the Chinese government) have been stealing code and give them to the government.
If this was the reason, why not do the same thing to google USA? You think there are no agents in the US HQ? lol... Chinese industrial espionage has always played with no-limit betting and they are good at it..
Also, there have been rumors that Google is not going to pull out after all, supposedly after "talks" with the Chinese government. It is obvious that China does not want Google out. So they made a deal it would seem.
EPT
