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First up, i'm glad there's already a fair amount of discussion going on, this is great. particularly since this is somewhat of a newbie game, it's much more likely that mafia can make a mistake when trying to fit in with an active town. so, keep it up!
I think I'll go ahead and announce my candidacy for sheriff/mayor as well. My experience? I've played in every single mafia game on teamliquid, including tracil's. I've been green, blue and red, so i've been around, and know what to expect. I never ran for office, mostly because i was (and still am, of course) learning, and plus there were some crazy-good people like ace that usually run. a lot of them are in the other mafia game though, so i feel like i have an edge here 
issue of the first lynch -- promising to lynch an inactive is a decent start, since obviously we want everyone to be active. like mentioned earlier, this gives us a better shot at pinpointing mafia (especially given that there are many beginners here)
issue of my activity -- i'll go ahead and say it: i won't be the most active player here. i work fulltime, but i will be online every day, and i will have several hours of free time, so this shouldn't be an issue.
issues of votes/incarcs -- mayor votes are powerful because they can stop (or start) retarded bandwagons (see last game). as for incarcs, i haven't played with most of the people here, but i'm sure many will step up (because you'll be active, remember?) and prove themselves valuable to the town/desirable targets for mafia
so yeah, jeejee for office!
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Oh yeah and the obligatory campaign poster,
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to be fair, i did outline my stance on the main issues that we should be concerned about when electing someone into office: firstly (although minor, some people put a lot of weight into this for some reason) the initial lynch, then the special abilities, future activity, and finally (which i believe is the most important) the ability to make good decisions on and off the record (while discouraged, pm rings will always exist, can't do much about that). so my platform is more than just "i'm experienced". but yes i did try to keep it as brief as possible
if you think i should've covered something else, feel free to point it out and i'll elaborate
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On May 19 2009 05:33 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 05:16 Shikyo wrote:
Oh yes, I forgot. Pyrr, is it too much work if you had links on the front page for every day and every night, just like Chuiu did in his last game? It's incredibly useful and convenient, so if it's not too troublesome, it'd be great. Or were you going to only include them in the OP? That works too, I just think it'd be useful when trying to find certain posts that happened at a certain time. I'll do it if someone tells me how to link to a post instead of just a page. Or am I supposed to just link to the page?
mouseover the 'quote' link and you'll see something like.. &id=86&topic_id=93562
the first one is the post id the second is the thread id
so you take the page link, add #86 (or whatever) and it'll center to the post
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On May 19 2009 05:17 ydg wrote:
Going back to clue analysis, no one has mentioned this part yet:
Meanwhile, downstairs, Qatol was using the Triumvirate Building's spacious archery range for target practice. As he looked down to reload, another figure crossed the room from the other side. The mafioso crept behind Qatol and took out his knife. Qatol never shot another arrow.
I don't know if Pyrry is using clues to indicate characteristics of mafia like Chuiu does, or if he uses words in his paragraphs relating to information from Mafia.
If it's the first one, then this mafia "creeps" and "crossed the room [of the spacious archery range] from the other side" quite quickly, in the time it takes Qatol to reload. This seems to indicate a sort of animal, to me at least, which may go well with the clue about the cat.
we'll know more about pyrr's clue writing style as the game goes on, but this is an interesting catch. archery ranges aren't exactly small (even in that very quote, it's described as "spacious") so crossing it in the time it takes to pull out another arrow does imply something that's pretty fast.
anyway i'm getting a bit confused about the lack of activity here... both the coasts should've definitely woken up by now (not to mention europe), and still, only a few people are posting.. given that this is the very beginning, doesn't bode too well. be active people! i hope that in the next few hours activity picks up as people in na come back from jobs or w/e.
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query:
Townie 16 of 16
Detective 2 of 2
Medic 3 of 3
Vigilante 2 of 2
Veteran 1 of 1
Mayor 1 of 1
Bodyguard 2 of 2
Sheriff 1 of 1
Miller 2 of 2
Mafia 6 of 6
Godfather 1 of 1
16 townies + 2 DTs + 3 medics + 2 vigs + 1 vet + 2 miller + 6 mafia = 32?
or are millers counted in townies, and gf not in the mafia count?
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On May 19 2009 06:58 So no fek wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 06:43 l10f wrote:
Just go with the flow and vote for Shikyo =] Bandwagon voting is never good, however, I'll agree that his campaign is the best. 
yeah i agree, bandwagoning must be discouraged.. especially if it's the only post you make in the thread to date. just doesn't look too good
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in terms of voting without posting content, unfortunately that seems to be a recurring theme so far.. both knutti & l10f did the same thing. a few others made one post of content, which is more forgivable of course. it's a bit unsettling when there's basically 9 people who voted so far and 1/3 of them haven't added anything to the thread.
there really should be no reason for any townie to stay quiet since that only hurts the town.
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also, @shikyo you can also look at the game where bwdero played in and was mafia.. and also kept his posting style consistent with 'politeness' or whatever. the whole conclusion based on the language analysis part of your post pretty much falls apart there once that is taken into account, it seems.
and l10f, it's clear you're keeping up with the thread given how quickly you pop out of the woodwork when someone mentions your name, so care to elaborate on the current candidates and what you think of them?
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well, this is a smaller game by TLs standards no doubt, but in general it is actually pretty large. all depends on your point of reference
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The reason the confirming-vigi plan didn't work out is because the vigi in question didn't PM his hit to the four people as promised. If they actually do that, it's possible to use this plan; however, it's easy to link clues to someone that you want them to be linked to. And it would be a fine line to draw whether something/someone's going too far to try and match the clues to the supposed vigi, or the connection is reasonable compared to pyrr's other clues.
Also keep in mind, if a medic successfully protects X, this doesn't say anything about X's innocence. Sure, it's likely that X is a townie-aligned role that was hit by mafia, but it's also possible that it was a mafia hit by a vigi.
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However, combining these 2 plans gives us something interesting. If we have our vigis PM their hits to a few random people, then we can effectively rule out the possibility that the abovementioned X is a mafia hit by a vigi. This, obviously, requires cooperation on the part of the vigis, to not hit anyone prior PMing a few people.
So, assuming that vigis decide to play along, a medic gets a message of a successful protection on X. Moreover, noone posts any vigi PMs that they have received. At this point the medic can be reasonably sure that X is innocent.
comments?
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Well, the activity level has been sorely disappointing so far. Only about half the people voted, and out of those, quite a few have provided basically no input to the thread. At this rate, a lot of participants might end up modkilled =/
Here's hoping it picks up tomorrow (given that it's already midnight on the east coast)
So far, I would like more feedback posted about the plans outlined in the thread as well as the candidates. Foolishness' latest post was.. interesting, but it's Shikyo's reply that I'm looking forward to.
Anyway, I'm off to sleep, I'll be back tomorrow. And remember,
Those are the gold chains of justice!
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Well, time's-a-tickin, we're still missing a fair amount of votes, but let's talk a little bit about the roles, and how they should act for the next little while.
First up, everyone's expected to vote. That's obvious. If you haven't voted, and are reading this, go and vote right now, even if it's just to abstain.
Now let's go down the list.
First up, about half this game is townies. When I started, I used to dislike the townie role, because of "damn i don't have any powers, noo", but also because a lot of the earlier games had silly self-confirming roles like elder which left townies out of the loop. That is, unless you put effort in. Townie is my favorite role now, for several reasons. First up, and most relevant to this game, it's quite a bit easier to start learning. You can be as outspoken as you like, without having to worry "oh, would this post hint i'm a medic/dt/vigi? maybe i shouldn't post. crap why am i being lynched for being inactive?? maybe i should roleclaim? wait they're lynching me anyway, WTF". Nevermind choosing whether and who to hit/prot/check. Seriously, if you're a townie, start posting everything you're thinking of, any links you can see. You'll be getting PMs from people who agree or disagree, chat with them, based on the impression they make, you may conclude whether they're town-aligned or not, etc. It's significantly easier to analyze when you have someone to bounce ideas off of. Likewise, if you find someone in the thread that comes off as an innocent, or guilty, PM them, see how they react, etc. Experiment, it's a great learning experience! The key is to start and continue posting. This actually also applies to other roles too.
Next up, we have 2 detectives (aka DTs). Let's look at the role description:
Detective
You are a super sleuth. Once per night phase, you may PM me to ask one of the following, which I will answer:
1. Does X contain a clue? (Where X is part of a Day post) (called a "Clue Check")
2. Does X contain a clue that points to Y? (Where X is part of a Day post and Y is a player's name) (called a "Clue Check")
3. What is Y's role? (Where Y is a player's role) (called a "Role Check")
X can be no larger than one sentence.
A Role Check cannot be done during Night 1. Only 3 Role Checks may be performed per DT per game. The 3rd Role Check cannot be done before Night 5.
What should you do during night 1? First of all, you should act. You have unlimited clue checks (c/c1 and c/c2), and can start during night 1. You also don't have to decide whether to rolecheck (r/c) someone , since you don't have that option. So, pick something that stands out to you, give it a shot. Chances are, you won't get much, given that it's day 1. What are the outcomes?
You do c/c1 or c/c2 and you miss. Tough luck, try again next night.
You do c/c1 and you hit. This is interesting. But probably not worth going indepth about.
If you happen to strike gold with c/c2, this is probably your hardest decision. On one hand, you've nailed a mafia. However, telling us pretty much compromises you in every possible way. First of all, if you post in the thread during day saying "i'm a DT, i c/c2'd this guy and he came up red" (since he can't be vig until night2), we have no choice but to lynch you. Saccing a DT for a mafia? Early on, not the greatest of trades. Of course, that also means if you flip DT, a vigi can claim that they will hit the mafia the next night, we will see the mafia die and get a confirmed townie, incarc, and have something going. Now the trade is a DT for a mafia and another confirmed townie, plus a medic web for the next night. A little more interesting. I would like more feedback on this course of action (this assumes day1/2, not any later days. Those days have the added complication of your c/c2 revealing a vigi instead of a mafia).
If you say this during night, first of all, don't. If you mention this during the night, it only tells the mafia your role, and really tells us nothing. Our medics have no reason to protect you, we gain nothing from the info since vigis can't hit night1. So don't.
For the next nights, how should you structure your R/C's? You have 3 of them, that's actually a lot. Most mafia games don't last too many nights. Just don't waste this on any elected officials (maybe pyrr might let this slide given that we have beginner DTs) because they would just show up as mayor or sheriff. However, I wouldn't just go ahead and use them all up as fast as possible. But, you probably should r/c someone on night 2 or 3. If you hit a townie-aligned role, remember that's no real reason to give away your role. In fact, you never really have a reason to give away any role. If you think it'll help them trusting you though, could be worth it (especially if your r/c reveals another DT)
Next, we got 3 medics. Let's look at the description.
Medic (From Mafia VIII rule writers)
You have the ability to prevent one hit on a player of your choice during the night. Each paramedic can only stop one hit and as such if the number of mafia is greater than the number of paramedics on a player then that player will die. You will know if you saved the person. The person will know if he was saved. If you are protecting a veteran, and they are hit, your ability supercedes theirs. You cannot protect yourself. You can protect people starting Night 1.
This is by far the hardest role to play well. Let's break it down, first of all, you can and should act every night. Who should you prot after the elections? I would read through the thread from a mafia's point of view. Ask yourself -- who would you like to die? Who seems like a good candidate to be hit? Make a list, order them by likelyhood of being hit. Then prot someone you like, base it on your gut feeling, or sense of star, or whatever else. Night 1 prots are very hard, but they can also be very critical.
What should you do during the following day? 2 outcomes:
Your target didn't get hit. That's good and bad. Good because he was a target that's valuable to town and desirable for mafia to kill (hopefully that's why you decided to prot him), and he lived. Bad because you didn't decrease mafia KP for the night. Either way, don't sweat, start thinking about the next night.
Your target did get hit. During night 1, you have a confirmed innocent. Vigis cannot hit during night 1, and mafia may not hit each other, so you're 100% safe in chatting with them. You don't have to necessarily tell them your role (although if you PM them out of the blue (pun intended) with confidence, I'm sure they will figure it out anyway), but use them as another person to bounce ideas off of, knowing that their interests and yours are aligned.
Next, we have 2 vigilantes (aka vigis). Here's the description
Vigilante (Thanks to Mafia VII rule writers)
You may, only once during the game, kill a player of your choice during the night. A clue will be left behind just like a mafia killing pointing to you. If your hit overlaps with mafia or another vigilante then I will cancel it and they will kill the person instead. In the case of overlapping vigilantes, the hit that was sent first is the one that goes through. In both cases you will not know who caused your hit to be canceled and you will be able to use your hit anytime after that during the game. You may not use this ability on Night 1. Medic protection may block your hit, and, if it does, you will have used your killing ability.
You can't hit during night1, so sit tight (this doesn't mean sit quiet, like I said earlier, each and every single one of you should be active in the thread).
We also have one veteran (aka vet). You're a townie, really. Just be active, be outspoken, chat with people in and out of the thread. What happens if you get hit? First of all, should you say something? It's a harder decision than it may seem, because think of it from mafia's point of view: they don't know if you're a vet or were protted by medic. So they don't know what happens if they hit you again -- do they waste another hit because you're medic'd, should they stack hits? But then they might waste the stacked hits if you were just a vet. It keeps the mafia guessing, and it's good. On the other hand, if we're trying to reconstruct a kill list, this could be a critical piece of info (a piece of info also easily faked by mafia of course, so limited in its use). Use your judgment, but i wouldn't go around saying that you were hit just yet.
A note on millers: We got 2 of them. You don't know who you are, you just see yourselves as townie. I can't give any advice to you specifically, for obvious reasons. However, this is a note more to the DTs. Keep in mind that millers do exist. r/c'ing someone and flipping mafia isn't guaranteed to make them mafia. Millers are on town's side.
A note on bodyguards (aka BGs): after election, you might get randomly awarded a BG role if you're a townie. Let's look at the description.
Bodyguard
Bodyguards are the protectors of the elected roles. As long as they remain alive the Mayor and Sheriff are both immune to all hits during the night. Bodyguards will not know who each other are, the elected roles will not know who they are, and they will be chosen from Townies after the Mayor chooses who to lynch. You show up as Townie for all Rolechecks.
You won't get a list of BGs, the elected officials won't get a list of BGs, you're on your own. You're now a more critical townie but this does not mean you should suddenly be quiet especially if you were active before. That's one of the worst things you can do (being quiet is one of the worst things anyone can do, aside from like, a vigi hitting a medic that would've protted a DT but didn't). You don't really have any power decisions to make, and I wouldn't alter any way you were playing at all.
And finally, we have the 6 mafias and their godfather, for a total of 7 non-town aligned roles. It's fairly easy to play as red, just PM me and mention you're mafia. Obviously I'm going to require proof, and the only way I can think of is to list your teammates (if you think of another way, go for it).
And I guess I will be just as active as everyone else (probably more) after all. TL isn't blocked at work :-) So scratch my earlier statement about that, and perhaps I might become a better candidate in your eyes.
Remember, follow the gold chain of justice to town victory! Vote Now!
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The recent streak of votes for jimtudor cause me to raise an eyebrow when I look at their history and the lack of jimtudor's posts lately. One that I find particularly striking is Phelix. Firstly, he has made 3 posts; the first to discourage clue analysis of day1, and the second and third to do the clue analysis he so dislikes. Moreover, it's 'analysis' designed to confuse townies rather than help them. For instance, look at this paragraph in his latest post:
I've been trying to find the link with decaffeinated coffee with a drumstick, since that's a pretty strong hint, but nothing says it in their profiles or their usernames.
It has already been mentioned in this very thread, multiple times, that this is a running joke among the game hosts and decafchicken's history in mafia. Moreover, it's a well-known fact if you had played or read the previous games. So what's the point of posting this, aside from hoping misinformed/new townies start climbing up the wrong tree? (same question goes to you, raxor2)
Also, I'll address this earlier post made by jimtudor:
Jeejee, I had an eye on you ever since my preliminary clue search but these are so weak that I wanted to wait for one more day and wasn't putting it out. Now, after the echo chamber that you had with ilovektf and quiet support makes me more skeptical.
Meanwhile, downstairs, Qatol was using the Triumvirate Building's spacious archery range for target practice. As he looked down to reload, another figure crossed the room from the other side. The mafioso crept behind Qatol and took out his knife. Qatol never shot another arrow.
Fear is the strongest driving force in competition. Not fear of one's opponent, but of the skill and high standard he represents; fear, too, of not acquitting oneself well. In the achievement of higher performances, of beating formidable rivals, the athlete defeats fear and conquers himself. -Franz Stampfl
Your profile contains pretty much the only reference to athletic competition in the whole game. Franz Stampfl was a famous coach that had somewhat revolutionary ideas for how to train your body and practice for your sport, although he specialized in training runners he also trained other athletes in other fields. He was a noted olympic trainer, got his trainees many golds. The only place where archery is relevant today is athletic competition and the olympics.
I find it interesting that you mention stampfl being the only reference to any athletic competition in this game when your very name is that of a hockey player (a traditionally fast sport). Obviously it's not even close to being a good mafia link, I just wanted to point out the convenient omission on your part.
Moreover, you didn't even state any strategy you would follow as sheriff/mayor or comment on any outlined plans in the thread so far. A good townie should always be reading and trying to figure out holes in potential plans, as well as pointing them out, something you have failed to do.
This bring me to my final point -- I'm sorely disappointed that nobody jumped on my mistake in my analysis of roles. In particular, I have completely ommitted the possibility of godfather when describing what DTs should do if they r/c someone. Obviously they should never reveal their role no matter what the other person flips as, due to gf being in the game.
Why was this not brought up? It tells me that either the people who are actively posting (and therefore reading) in the thread either a) aren't careful or b) didn't want to point it out.
Comments?
Oh and finally, given that the mayor race is still pretty close, I fully agree with zeks' reasoning for the first lynch choice being therapy:
I choose therapy.
Justification on therapy:
His one post:
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Hi guys, just chiming in here so I don't get killed for inactiveness. This is my first mafia game besides playing with about 15 friends around 2 years ago so I'm probably not going to be saying anything too profound. I haven't really been swayed by any of the potential sheriff's speech's so far, they sound reasonably intelligent but don't state anything that's beyond just general knowledge or logic. If I dunno who to vote for should I just abstain or should I take a shot in the dark?
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The majority of us have agreed to lynch an inactive for first lynch, and the whole purpose of his one post is so that he won't be on the chopping block for this lynch. It is because of this that makes me suspicious of him. He may have posted once, so it looks like he's better than the ones that haven't posted, but I think his post was as good as nothing. Furthermore, his profile has pretty much one thing to relate clues to: the quote: "Let's start a revolution so I can break some shit." I am linking this to the last part of day 1:
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Without warning, his windshield shattered and a wave of glass ripped through LTT's face. Passing out from blood loss, LTT's head slumped, sounding a horn that would not be heard in time.
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This isn't the strongest clue, but the links are:
"break some shit" -> "windshield shattered and a wave of glass..."
"start a revolution" -> "sounding a horn"
So because of those two counts and the majority of us wanting to lynch an inactive, I would thus lynch therapy if I were to be elected mayor.
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On May 20 2009 09:56 l10f wrote:
And there are only 3 medics + sheriff + mayor. That's only 5 people that are protected what about the other two?
The point of the medic list isn't for the medics to protect them, however contradicting this might sound. It's simply what the medics themselves should've come up with (or something similar) if they followed my advice by reading the thread from mafia's point of view and deciding who to kill (and consequently, prot). Obviously, if the medics were to blindly protect people on the list, the mafia would blindly.. not hit people on the list, thus negating medic protection completely. The fact that the medic list contains more people than there are medics is irrelevant.
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Lynch is already decided by shikyo. I assume pyrr is writing up the post right now.
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On May 20 2009 12:31 zeks wrote:
There is no lynching vote, mayor gets the lynch
I read the rules and I never found anything about ties and what would happen - but most of you say its last vote = Sheriff so I suppose Shikyo is now Mayor. Shikyo probably already sent in his lynch.
5. If there is a tie, the person who reached the number of votes first takes precedence.
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I imagine that's missing a NoClueArea tag, right? Just so nobody wastes time looking in it.
Sucks I guess, (lol@breaking stuff though) hopefully this encourages each and every town-aligned role to start posting more actively.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7507/campaigny.jpg)
