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Okay, recently there have been a sea of good protosses, and two of them have proven themselves to be the current protoss kings, the great protosses, Bisu, and Stork. (I wrote them in alphabetical order).
What I wanted to ask the majority of Teamliquid is who do you think had the harder road in this season's Starleague?
This discussion is ONLY about the difficulty of their Starleagues, and for those who are wondering, I'm doing this because of the 'interesting' Power Rank discussion. Just thought that this would garner the opinions of those that do not comment on the Power Rank.
Poll: Who had a harder Starleague?
(Vote): Bisu: Much, FBH, Backho, Hwasin, FBH, Free, Jangbi
(Vote): Stork: Backho, Sea, Fantasy, Bisu, Best, Fantasy
Yeah, almost a direct copy.
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Harder in what terms? Objectively, I think Stork faced tougher opponents, but in terms of playing in your worst MU against above average players, Bisu faced a relatively tougher road. In my opinion, the starleague path of Stork and Bisu says nothing much besides the fact that Bisu is more well rounded than Stork, and in the areas Stork is strong at he is stronger than Bisu (arguably slightly, but this is subjective as well).
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Harder as in harder to win? Taking into account their abilities and race, of course.
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Wow, neither of them played a zerg. I guess I knew that, but its just pretty amazing.
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What I mean is that Stork may face the #2 pvp in the world and if he is the #1 pvp, then he shouldnt have that hard of a time subjectively (since ideally he should win). While if Bisu is the #5 pvp and he is facing the #3 pvp, he should have a harder time winning, subjectively.
But if you look at it objectively and not take into account Bisu and Stork's pvp strength, then Stork has a harder time because he is facing a better pvp player.
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Well, Bisu didn't have to beat Stork in his Starleague. Voting Stork!
Edit: Oh, and this thread should have [SPOILER] in its title...
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Oh crap, sorry, I'mma PM a mod right now.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
all 4 finalists and semifinalists had their easy way up there
because SOME 2 BEST PLAYERS DROPPED OFF TOO FUCKING EARLY
but I voted for stork.
edit: Another JD vs flash final plz next season, dont care who wins deliver us an epic BO5 PLEASSEEE
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Stork by far.. -_-;;;
I mean i'm a huge fan of Bisu myself but I cant help thinking he had tremendous luck on him as he advanced to win MSL..
Backho, Hwasin and FBH.. All who we know who suffer miserably vs Protoss MU..
Same with Free whos been playing extremely well recently but also not so great on pvp front..
I mean yea luck counts as skill too and Bisu's pvp is top class no doubt.. But if he met Flash or Jaedong or even Stork on the way, whether he still would have made it to the finals is very questionable..
On the other hand for Stork, we already know he outplays anyone anywhere anytime.. EXCEPT for the finals..
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Stork had harder list of opponents, for sure. He also had to overcome his own silver medalist mental block.
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Given Stork's mentality of choking, I guess I would say he had the harder toad too, both subjectively and objectively  .
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United States47024 Posts
Bisu had a tougher group stage, but Stork definitely had the harder Bo3/Bo5 series. Bisu/Best/Fantasy is tougher than FBH/Free/Jangbi.
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huh, the better you consider bisu's competition the more it speaks for stork's win over him. stork all the way.
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United States2186 Posts
Stork's opponents were harder, there is no question. Fantasy was a strong player who came prepared with a great game plan. Jangbi is a very good player in singles matches but isn't the same thing in a series; he's very similar to Best. Hint, Bisu didn't 'outluck' Jangbi so many times in a row.
Fantasy>Any of Bisu's opponents by far.
Best>~ Bisu's opponents, but only slightly. Jangbi is very similar to Best overall, but Best is much stronger at PvP. Free is a more dangerous series opponent than Jangbi and could potentially have fair odds vs Best in a bo5, we can't tell due to lack of history. It's just Free vs Bisu is a really bad matchup for Free since he can't outthink Bisu.
However, Stork got through without playing a single game in BY FAR his worst matchup. His PvZ isn't remotely comparable to his PvT/PvP. It's like July never having to play ZvT in his 3rd win(although July's creampuff opponent list was as bad as Jangbi's joke run up to meeting Kal).
Bisu on the other hand, got through without playing a single game in by far his BEST matchup. It's like Flash in Bacchus, except Flash's series opponents were all S level opponents while Bisu's were merely on fire A level players.
Free was a pretty strong opponent and is playing incredibly well overall. Bisu just made him seem bad by continually getting the right build advantages and some very impresive defense in game 2. Notice how he does this all the time in PvP? Even going all the way back to his games vs rA (3-0) in GOM 1. It was dismissed as 2 luck BO wins, but when you get the luck in your favor every single time over such a long period, you just cannot classify it as luck anymore. Bisu's PvP is like Flash's TvP. He can play blind and guess correctly what his opponent's will do every time. The only player that Bisu can't do this to it seems is Stork, as their series have been extremely close/back and forth. Besides EVER semis of course, where Bisu was mentally off and got raped.
And FBH's TvP, despite its history, was looking really good overall. But it relied on certain timing windows which Bisu never let him get. And Medusa/Destination are very hard TvP, especially Medusa (new Katrina?). It's 11-1 in favor of P if you don't include statistics-breaker Flash (who is 3-0), and the only other win is some random terran beating up an out of shape Rainbow, which says nothing. A 2 fact on Destination, a previous build he had used and definitely stronger than 1 fact fe on it, could have worked if Bisu didn't limit this danger with all his early harassment. Athena was questionable FBH build choice and a good reaction from Bisu.
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Yeah, it's obvious that stork had some harder opponents but Bisu had to play against his worst match up alot of the times and not facing his best mu once. It was the total opposite for stork.
But it could easily make stork the one with the harder word.
Well for Power Rank, Stork did drop out of the MSL.... ehehehe
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I'm hoping they'll get to settle it straight up in GOM finals
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There is absolutely no doubt Stork had the harder road. If a terran or a zerg played against that lineup in the MSL, I would argue in favor of the MSL winner. The difference between Hwasin/FBH's TvP against their TvT/TvZ is astonishing. And even if PvT is not Bisu's strength, it doesn't take away from the fact that his opponents are not TvP juggernauts either.
Meanwhile, Stork's opponents are all VERY GOOD against tosses, except maybe fantasy, but he's too new to judge accurately.
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bisu.
why?
i love bisu.
fuck stork.
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EPT
