EPTTL Mafia 2 [GG]
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
easy to control-f search it, and keeps everything in one place. However if a new thread makes administrating the game easier (never did this myself) then go for it. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 14 2008 14:38 qrs wrote: OK, so far fusion, caller, and Empyrean have all said that they will run for mayor no matter what. That means that if they end up mafioso, the Mafia practically has to put them up for election, otherwise it will be clear that they are Mafia (why else wouldn't they run). IOW, if the Mafia puts up, say, two candidates, and any of these three are in the Mafia, he will be one of the two candidates. Something to keep in mind. actually no he is right, this is nonsense. As an innocent townie, above all else your best bet is to elect a Mayor and Pardoner that are above all else highly competent. Having a dumb innocent townie is just as bad as having a Mafia Mayor. If you elect a really smart Mayor who just so happens to be Mafia a few things can happen so that the town comes out ahead: 1.) The first day one of the detectives investigates the Mayor, another one or another day Pardoner. If they turn up innocent they either truly are, or happen to be Godfathers. If they turn up guilty well thats a quick Mafia death. 2.) The detectives never do it, but if the Mayor that was elected was supposed to be highly competent the smart townies can trap him if they think he is doing a bad job. As a competent Mayor, certain actions would be expected and if they aren't doing them even when it HAS to be best for the town well then they are Mafia or useless. 3.) You elect both a really smart Mayor and really smart Pardoner, and as long as both aren't Mafia the power struggle that will ensue would be hurtful if even one of them is Mafia. What those 3 are saying is that they think they are SMART enough to lead the town, and in the Mafia games I've played and admined thats the kind of strategy I would go for as an innocent townie. A Mafia Mayor or Mafia Pardoner can be cornered if you know they have to be thinking logically. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
No. You keep saying that, but it's groundless. You're assuming that the Mafia will put up a higher percentage of its people for mayor than the town will, but there is no reason to think that that is the case. 1) Last game, when Chuiu closed the vote, 7/57 townies were candidates. 0/14 mafia were candidates. ([url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=66251¤tpage=39#763]link[/url]). That worked out fine for them, by the way. 2) It doesn't make sense for the Mafia to put up more than a couple of candidates: a) The more people they put up, the harder it is to influence the vote for any one of them. b) The more people they put up for election, the more people fingers can be pointed at down the line. [quote] The ONLY reason that happened is because the Townies were so fucking BAD. In a game full of good players, the Mafia might have been toasted. With no Mafia Mayor, and no Mafia Pardoner, and the Mafia not electing to try and get at least one person in office was a mistake. It makes plenty of sense for the Mafia to put up more than 1 candidate, and when the game starts I may even get the chance to show you why. They dont have to influence the vote for any one candidate, they just need to start a bandwagon to get townies to believe it's the right choice. Even if they put up 3 people, in a game of 128 and possibly 6 to 7 candidates it will still take time and a lot of convincing to get caught. [quote] Townies, on the other hand, don't have to worry about these things. 3) You don't seem to realize that your reasoning cuts both ways: Sure, if you're right, and the Mafia will put up a higher percentage of candidates than the town, the odds favor voting for you, but if you're wrong, and the town will put up a higher percentage of candidates than the Mafia, the odds favor voting for someone other than you. 4) In any case, none of that is what I was saying in my above post. I said this: on that 1/7 chance that you are Mafia, you've locked yourself into being the Mafia candidate. That makes it slightly more likely, that between you and another candidate, you are the Mafioso. For argument's sake, take two people A and B. Assume the Mafia has at most one candidate. A has declared his candidacy beforehand. If neither is Mafia, that is that. If A is Mafia (1/7 chance), A is the Mafia candidate. If B is Mafia and A is not (~6/49 chance), B is the Mafia candidate. If both are Mafia (~1/49), A is the Mafia candidate, because he's already locked himself in. So everything else being equal, it is more likely that A is the Mafia's candidate. You are A. You will probably not be Mafia (like any other given person), but everything else being equal, you are slightly more likely to be a Mafia candidate than someone else who is running.[/QUOTE] 3 - complete bullshit. There are no odds when it comes to voting for Mayor, especially if the last game is any proof. 4 - also complete crap. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Even without a Mayor, the Town has Elders and Vigis. Sure we may lose a Mayor, but it surely isn't game over or even close. Really, the ideal setup to winning for the Townies is to have a competent leader that can convince even the most die hard Townies to vote the right way, and be smart about catching Mafia. We don't need to know who the detectives are until a certain point - that's called roleclaiming which is a really good strategy when done right. All the DTs, if smart wouldnt all investigate the Mayor - some would surely hit the Pardoner or even a random townie acting stupid. I've admined and played this game enough to know that when it comes to voting for Mayor trying to pick out who is innocent is a major waste of time unless someone messes up. Just going with "kill multiple birds with one stone" strats forces the Mafia's hand and gets the ball rolling for the townies to survive. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 14 2008 16:06 qrs wrote: The point is: they have said they are running. They have no reason to change that, unless they answer to someone else. ok look to make this even simpler: I'm running for Mayor also. See? Now even if any of us are Mafia we'll still run for Mayor and you can't figure anything out. Your logic isn't adding up. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 14 2008 16:10 qrs wrote: Good, you agree with me. fusionsdf was the one who was saying that there were odds, based on certain assumptions of his. I pointed out that under different assumptions, the odds would point in the other direction. Honestly, I don't think that there's a really strong basis for either set of assumptions. ok good. Actually, it's not. Think about it. I said 4 was crap because this is what it boils down to: The Townies are electing a Mayor and Pardoner based on popularity, intelligence, and whether they think he/she isn't Mafia. The Mafia are electing a Mafia Mayor, or a dumb Townie who is just as good as a Mafia Mayor. Surely, you can see there are no odds to think about here. The number of Mafia do not matter. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Ace
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um...no it isn't. lol @ 1st lynch request. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Pardoner can get away with Pardoning Mafia if they are slick, and sometimes Vigis act dumb and go off revenge killing (cuz someone voted for them to get lynched) This game will be interesting. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I've played and admined Mafia games before, know how powerful both Mayor and Pardoner roles can be in the right hands, and I'm pretty smart too. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Also added to that, whoever gets Mayor knows who the bodyguards are. Clearly, they should PM all the Bodyguards and set them all up to know each other's ID. This way the Town has a starting force of innocents off the bat. Also, even if a Mafia Mayor does this, the Bodyguards should all double check with each other in PM land, and assume that if the Mayor is not proven innocent by a DT soon, he is possibly lying about one of his BGs being legit - I've done this strat in the past as a Godfather Mafia Mayor. With the above strategy, we can easily have a group of innocent Townies assembled off the bat, even with a Mafia Mayor he'd have to put some of the Townies into power doing this. It's a good strat to start the Townies off on a good foot. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 18 2008 16:29 Ghar wrote: More ideas since the thread just got quiet Though at the moment I'm still contemplating whether it's beneficial to start weeding numbers quickly, or wait until a relatively sure kill before attacking. Thoughts and suggestions guys? I like to start the game off with weeding out strats that are easy to follow - this controls discussion and gives everyone focal points. One of the biggest reasons the Townies always lose is because they start posting nonsense, arguing about retarded shit, revenge voting, and seem to listen to the most nonsense posts for voting someone to get lynched. With weeding strats: 1.) We keep the focus on a few people 2.) allows the Detectives to split up their work. If they see the town gunning for some people, they can investigate OTHER people. This is a major help. 3.) Mafia members can no longer sit back and watch the town kill themselves - they have to get in on discussions. This way, they are in the spotlight just like we need them to be. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
What I meant by splitting work is that once the town has 2 or 3 targets for lynching the people caught in voting patterns (or "unvoting") patterns should be examined asap instead of the suspects because the Town will, and should continue to hone in on them. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 18 2008 16:52 ahrara_ wrote: Ghar, your plan is seriously flawed. I don't think you've thought this through, which is why I'm going to encourage people not to vote for you. If there was a contest over best election poster however, you'd win by a landslide. There are four detectives. They can use their role finding abilities twice in the game, and once a day. However, noone knows who the detectives are. A mafia mayor could have a fellow mobster, even two, pretend to be detectives and report that you're the mayor. You could have the detectives detect the detectives, but that'd cause the same problem, and the real detectives would be using their abilities in vain. So it's not that easy, but at least it's better than what FS did. edit: For chrissake, if you're going to run for mayor, do more than a half-assed job. Can't be worse than fakesteve doesn't cut it. I'm sure you didn't read his entire post, because the strategy makes a lot of sense EVEN when the Mayor is Mafia because it forces the Mayor to do some work that benefits the Town. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 18 2008 17:02 aZnvaLiaNce wrote: See, all this business behind what strategy is best for the future mayor is all based on the honor code and who's being honest. Seriously, I think it's best to put the strategy behind us until the first day/night cycle is done just to see how the important roles act/react to events happening, in particular the mayor. Oh lord... Look, just throwing everyone in the pit,waiting for the Mafia to kill 9 ppl and then seeing "what happens" is not always a good strategy. If we do the plan Ghar suggested, along with myself then we have a starting point which is CRUCIAL for the town. If ALL the Townies know the Strategy beforehand, and ALL the Mafia knows it then we've eliminated a lot of random elements and are now in a position where everyone knows the next moves that the Townies need to win, and the Mafia need to stop us from doing so. With that in mind and clues from the Day/Night posts, we can now trap Mafia members because we know clearly how any logical Innocent person would act. What you just posted pretty much asks us to commit suicide (see last game). | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 18 2008 17:04 ahrara_ wrote: I don't understand. If the mayor is mafia, and he convinces the real detectives to find out people's roles for him, then it's pretty much game over. If he's not mafia, he can't absolutely trust the detectives, because the mafia could be faking 4 detectives and reporting mob members as having the roles. BTW Ghar, I didn't mean you were half-assing it. I mean, well, it's clear the liquidians I'm talking about. Except that the Mayor is investigated FIRST so the real DTs are going to know if he's dirty or clean ASAP. There is a plan for the Mayor to figure out if the DTs are lying or not, and I won't post that here until later. The Mafia also isn't crazy enough to fake FOUR people. That would be ridiculously stupid. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 18 2008 17:22 aZnvaLiaNce wrote: 2.) Towny mayor: This is hard. Early on, you can't really trust who's who and the mayor doesn't know who the fake detectives are. Later on, however, if 4 of those 6 report in again when asked, then it becomes somewhat easier to discern people. If more than 4, then ask for a third time. Those who do report in are fakes then. However, you do this at the expense of losing all your detective reports for the game, so do this at your own risk. In scenario 2, The Mayor immediately role claims for all 6. Essentially, he says 6 people reported and only 4 can be DTS, and puts ALL the names into public. Now the Town has 2 sure fire Mafia, the Medics can easily see who they should think about saving, and the Mafia is fucked because if they don't kill any of the real DTs at night they live to investigate another night. If they DO kill any of the DTs, then that just tightens the noose on the other 2 Mafia posing DTs. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On March 18 2008 17:31 ahrara_ wrote: Ok ACE, I think Ghar's already posted your plan. So as I understand it, it's up for a real detective to report the mayor as mafia in case he is mafia. To verify this, we lynch said detective (as he's going to get killed anyway if he's real) to see if he's telling the truth. If he wasn't, that's one mafia down. If he was, then we lynch the mayor next. From there on, the mayor does his best to verify the other roles. I buy it so far, but I'll think about it before I vote. For now anyway, my vote is leading towards Ghar, because it's becoming more apparent to me how much rests on the mayor's shoulders, and Ghar's the only one who's given us a solid strategy. I also don't think he's mafia because of how fast his candidacy came up. I agree with bumatlarge. If I were mob, I wouldn't go run for mayor on a whim the moment the game starts. don't lynch the DT - if he's legit let the Mafia have to kill him and waste killing power. Or, let another DT verify him. In this case if a Mafia member poses DT we have a sure fire place to nab them off of now. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us... they can't get away this time" -- Lieutenant General Lewis B."Chesty" Puller (when surrounded by 8 enemy divisions) - United States Marine Corps | ||
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