EPTTL Mafia LXII: TL Noir
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On September 22 2013 01:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Allow me to preface this post by saying that I want to lynch an inactive this game as opposed to very interactive / talkative person. For the first 3 lynches of Aperture, 3/4 of the scumteam was very inactive while town drove itself into oblivion with the minimalistic pushing of mafia. That's something I'd rather avoid this game. Of the actives, Geript is the most suspicious. On one hand, he is ballsy if scum to go after DP. On the other, Geript refuses to drop the arguement that DP is scum when it clearly isn't founded that well. When someone sticks to a bad argument throughout the day, they are probably scum not wanting to budge their position. Geript is lynchbait typically, which makes me hesitate to lynch him given his current state in the game. Again out of the actives, I don't know how to read Mocsta so I'm going to assume town. WoS is leaning scum for me considering that "Why are you making yourself a good shot for scum, DP" post. I feel fucking great and accomplished when shot N1--and it's good for a townie to make themselves obvtown and scumhunt so they 1) are an obv medic save, hopefully scum will waste a KP on him and 2) they are obvtown to the townies who want to find scum by process of elimination. I'll wait for an explanation on that --- WoS has rolled survivor in the last two games so reading him is a bit wonky. Rest of the actives are pretty town. Can I get a filter list in the OP s'il-vous plait?? I'd like to get rid of Coagulation early Just made a list post so far, not even about reads but about generalized thread events. If Coag is going to be a useless fuck just like in Aperture, we should lynch or vig him early on. I'm voting him. Now we just need the other half of the thread to get active, which probably contains 4 scum or something. For the first bold: He then proceeds to vote for Coagulation, who if he's played with him before always ends up non-stop spamming and outspoken bad opinions. I also don't get the impression Mr. Cheesecakes is as actively concerned about this thread as he makes it seem. He is disagreeing with what he says he wants. Also he wants to be concerned about inactives, and I pretty much gave the impression that I was inactive/wanted to not contribute. "doing my own thing." Him defending me later is suspicious unless he knows I'm town. For the second bold: It makes the assumption that DP is town. He could very well have simply implicitly thought that DP and Gretrip can't both be scum, which is logical and I think makes sense. I'm also always watchful of people who post things they could have easily PM'ed the host(Can you put the filter there please!). I for instance PM'd the host. What does this accomplish? On September 22 2013 03:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @ Coagulation Why is pandain scummy to you? Just threw that out there and didnt back it up. Aside: yay me and marv share small scumread. Yamato seems town btw. More defense of me despite me clearly being suspicious. I would think that would be obvious. I actually last night voted geript for a number of reasons: 1. See if anyone else hopped on, I didn't actually think a gretrip lynch was valid for a lot of reasons which marv later posted, namely going after a strong player in DP. DP actually later hopping on is suspicious to me as well. 2. Move the conversation away. Gretrip/DP actually told me almost nothing except they're probably not both scum, and some soft meta hints about DP I have to investigate later. 3. See how people responded to my vote. Wanted to see if anyone unreasonably defended me (Cheesecake); Marv gave a good reasoning forever. I disagree that justanothertownie/lonemeow wanting to place a vote on me to get me to speak is scummy, I do that all the time. That's actually the logical result. Also it's pretty clear to me that Yamato is town at this point. His first post helped stop/convince DP and Gretrip to stop spamming the thread with poor arguments. It was getting disruptive and Yamato approached it logically and I don't see scum doing that. He laid out clear strong opinions on 4 different players, gave out new information, and then later pressured people in thread. I've never seen scum actually help the thread move forward to such an active degree, and it's pretty exciting. I'm waiting to hear more Marv analysis. On September 21 2013 13:48 Mocsta wrote: @Pandain Why art thou presence [RED]NOT[/red] been detected by virtue of filter? | | V *Was present 5 minutes before start. | | V 2.5hrs later. Pandian presence is still unFELT This post is noteworthy to me. Unless it's a theme game, people don't usually do this unless they're trying to actively show how 'townie' they are. But this post doesn't do much, it's a lot of fluff for a small point. I did stuff like this in Insane mafia when running for mayor or other things. However because he is contributing I suggest we wait until later. Obvious one is also suspicious He's making a lot of posts but not a lot of points. Posts like this: On September 21 2013 16:56 ObviousOne wrote: So Mocsta, Koshi, maybe a side of Kush if he never delivers on that case because it otherwise means he's been talking out of his ass. I'm not sure how I want to deal with the geript situation. Whether he's scum or town, he feels cancerous. I was cool with it last game because I was scum and he was like super wrong and fucked with town and it was great, but today I'm not feeling accepting. His playing like this, feels to me, like he sets himself up at best lynch/mislynch of the game to force people to take sides on it. Like he's the only person playing and we're just NPCs. I really would rather not lynch him if he's town, his position is "accept it or whatever" apparently, so can we collectively ignore the shit out of him and focus on things that seem more rational or sane or do we have to lynch him to move on? I'm happier with the former. I'd rather not appeal to his ego by making today about him, which is where his play seems to be geared. Can potentially just vig him if he becomes a problem. On September 21 2013 20:55 ObviousOne wrote: If you had written it that way before I would have been less concerned. By concern I mean I saw it as potentially setting you up to look good by casting suspicion right from the get-go. In this scenario, in my mind and my first instinct, you are potentially both mafia. I am leaning closer to town on you after things went pear shaped and settled out. Hopefully we get some more posting today despite the weekend laziness that seems to be happening. Pre-game was pretty exciting comparatively. Way too defensive and way too uncertain. I liken posting as scum to giving an impromptu graded speech, you're always terrified of saying the wrong thing and so you end up saying really nothing. A lot of "maybe"s and uncertainties are in these posts and they make me think he has the scum innate fear. Deserves further look. Out of all of these, I think Mr. Cheescake is by far the most suspicious. He's only defended me and then disagreed with what he said he wanted, to lynch a lurker; instead he goes after Coag for posting a list. I'm going to analyze him and DP later. On September 22 2013 02:30 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Give me those juicy scumreads youve been fermenting, please. I don't want to vig you if you're town bro Says stuff like this but doesn't really contribute that much, etc... Disagree that his "man you voted pandain early" posts are accusatory, as what I did was suspicious. The only reason it's not is because it was too suspicious. Marv needs to post more, Sentinel I want more analysis out of you and strong opinions, and I want the atmosphere we have now to stay and for people to consolidate your posts. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On September 22 2013 07:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Pandains case is a bunch of misunderstandings tbh. I never defended him, nor did I not do what i said prior. I can debunk the post in about 5 minutes at my comp, not really concered about it. On phone atm if anyone has simple questions. Yes I would like you to explain. Also why you feel like voting Coag versus what you said about going for inactives. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
I like about him saying ignore the geript matter, but he then doesn't go on and go after someone. Instead he replies a lot to Mocstad which isn't active effort but rather forced effort. Out of people who have posted so far, he is the one who has done the least while still being a presence. Townie's aren't that defensive. I don't think it's damning of course but don't consider it a null-tell. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Risen how are you feeling about Sentinel? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
He actually hasn't done anything either, suprisingly as I look back. He talked about Stutters but ended with "I would like to see more." Only thing he did was say Coag was bad. Sentinel you suspicious of anyone else? What are your thoughts? How is life? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
He is self-contradictory(not like FT who while I think is somewhat suspicious is more inherently consistant). On September 21 2013 19:21 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Time to stop taking my crazy pills and join in the fun. I'm not familiar with Koshi's meta, I can't really say what the hell he's doing. Kush is making more sense than I remember him ever making, I'll keep an eye on that. Aaaaand that's all I got at this point. + Show Spoiler + On September 22 2013 05:52 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Back from work as promised. Things I know: People who have not contributed - some might be lurking, others may have forgotten they signed up for this game: gumshoe Chairman Ray Cephiro Xzavier Onegu Zenatsu Risen iamp said he wanted to be replacement, what happened to that? Meapak_Ziphh - should really consider linking the filters in the list of signups. It's hard to bring up a bunch of filters when you have to manually type in the URL. Stutters695 - Stutters, like myself, doesn't like kush in this game. I'm actually curious as to why kush suddenly engages actively in the thread, and I agree with the fact that he's being thread police instead of being productive in the townfinding effort. What I don't like is how hard Stutters is tunneling kush. Every post in his filter at the time of this post is directed at lynching kush, or begging others to join the bandwagon, and nothing else. I would like to see what you think of other players Stutters. Coagulation - still completely fucking useless. Other than his "summary of today", which doesn't contribute anything to scumhunting and doesn't even summarize much, he has nothing. Here are his accusations: I would like to see some good evidence for lynching either pandain or geript. The marv thing isn't really an accusation since he's kinda warming up to him and accusing him with some of the least imposing language possible. So three accusations with zero bite, plus a summary, means he might as well have been lurking. Actually it's worse because when you lurk you may have an excuse, whether legit or not. Coag's been reading and posting and still has nothing to say. ##Vote Coagulation This is a very typical "list" analysis type which scum posts to seem like they're reading thread and on top of things, and then in reality they are not contributing. Doesn't say much and contradicts himself earlier; he says Kush is not productive while earlier he said he was. On September 22 2013 07:31 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I can get behind a Vayne lynch for the sake of removing one useless person in this game. Weak On September 22 2013 10:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Read it. Alright you win. ##unvote vote: Stutters695 Don't know how to feel except like he knew he had a bad argument On September 22 2013 23:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I think despite Umasi's allegations to the contrary, he's been contributing nothing of value. After LoneMeow leaves he decides that since he can't get anymore fuel, he'll unvote. And then really all he talks about is people who aren't scummy looking. I'm switching from Stutters to him because at least with Umasi, if he does end up flipping red then his filter becomes more useful than Stutters who just pushed kush all day. Since apparently pressuring him isn't working and he's lurking harder than ever. We could vig stutters though. I don't like yamato's big post either. He calls DP mafia, rayn scummy, and then quotes Ray's fluffpost and says HE'S THE SCUM. And he's really got nothing else to show, especially afterwards he doesn't rationalize anything. I'm leaning red on him. Umasi seems more red to me but yamato has more to show for further analysis if he flips red. But I'll keep my vote on Umasi for now. ##Unvote ##Vote: Umasi Otherwise, out of the filter dives I want to say something about WoS but I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps I'll say something about him and also Koshi when I get back. Weak, changes again, seems like he doesn't actually know what's going on. I'm also sorry I can't contribute more as of right now, I have too much work to do to go to in depth in analysis with contextual meta and relational play. For right now, as stand alone posts, Sentinel is the most suspicious to me. For others sake, let them know I am currently suspicious of DP for playing more poorly than I would expect and contrary to what he says actually shitting up thread and poor reasoning; I heavily believe Yamato is town; I would rather wait on Koshi as I like him and he has a valid excuse for being away scum or not; I am suspicious of CC still and believe OO is town now. I think Vayne is playing too trolly to be actually scum and I'm wondering where VE is at the moment. + Show Spoiler + As an aside, I disagree with Marv and believe we should not vig at random | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On September 23 2013 02:38 DarthPunk wrote: @pandain. Do you think poor play is a scum tell, a town tell or a null tell? Please give reasoning. That is too complex to answer lol, I can answer short questions now but don't want to become too involved in the thread right now. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Not like I had schoolwork to do | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Explain your reasoning now | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Plus this before On September 24 2013 07:22 FirmTofu wrote: I'm back. All caught up. I'm starting to have reservations about my case on Zaragon :/ brb doing some filter diving. So he's caught up, but doesn't want to share any initial impressions? He's afraid of sharing his opinions, which is suspicious. Reverts to his reads yesterday? Critizices geript(btw does anyone think he's not town I was writing a good case for why he's a solid town read in my eyes but don't want to post it if it's useless.) for having 5 pages of filter when he only has 3. Aka his playing mindset to him is less than he expects in Gertrip. Usually normal analysis you base how you read others on your own play. Bad posts are different from weak posts. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Okay I'm going to continue reading. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
In case I (somehow) get shot before I come back, here is my last good read(and advice). Emotion makes people towns Basically read any analysis. Scum are the ones who are inherently afraid to post, while town doesn't have that limitation. Because of this, any scum post, unless they're on the verge of being lynched(or a scum mate is), is going to be forced post rather than a genuine one. I think it's very hard to fake an emotion resulting from feeling bad this game. Mafia you don't even really feel bad, because you have a team to rest it on. You weren't playing bad, you were playing "well", simply as mafia. They didn't know. But if you're town and others criticize you, that hurts. Gertript is known for pulling off crazy tricks. Or at least, he did it in Aperture. On September 24 2013 01:41 geript wrote: I'm as good as how much time I put in. Just is what it is. IDK like I really don't feel great about my reads as I was pre-aperature. That said, everyone else who played and voted for me in aperature and was town were idiotic. I'm just not feeling this game and I think a large majority of scum are inactive. This post is too genuine for me. First, scum don't say they don't feel the game as an excuse. Actually to be fair they definitely can, but I have never seen a scum use an excuse like that. Because scum actually do feel for the game, it is hard to post posts which go against directly what you believe. To clarify further, being interested in the game(having a feel for it), and being interested in solving it are the two distinctions between emotion in mafia. Is this clear? Gertrip if you're reading this, I know how you feel. I felt exactly the same way in a weird Caller Japenese themed game. I was sure that Ace was scum but no one believed me. Eventually I was convinced I had no idea what to believe. And I hated it because I was confused. Keep at it man, and look at Palmar. He improved so much despite people constantly shit-talking him. Don't give up, and look at other people besides DP. I don't think shooting him is a good idea, even if you think he's mafia, because he is so strong later on. | ||
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R.I.P
