I would say that after a slightly worrying trollish start, Hapa has been asking the right questions.

Namely asking yamato why he's worried about DP (yamato, how would you 'expect' town DP to look if you're not seeing it here?) and pulling GK up on his characterisation of Oatsmaster's play. Also agrees with yamato's correct observation about Shaio's play.

I probably have opinions on other players too, but I don't care to talk about them right now, unless someone has specific questions.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 09:36 GMT

#337

On June 21 2013 18:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, thoughts on yamato, hapa and DP.

go!

Light town-reads on all of them.

yamato is being pulled up for saying things like "i have townreads on almost everyone" when this kind of thing just seems completely in-line with his rather over-confident play as town ("look! i solved the game this fast guys!") rather than sitting back as mafia.

Hapa just discussed.

DP has been super involved while he's here. Don't really know how to read the contents of his posts so well yet, but his high activity and give-a-shit ratio is promising.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 09:39 GMT

#339

On June 21 2013 18:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Do you buy yamato's explanation on his "reads"?

I think so. As I was reading it I thought it looked pretty terrible, but actually his "I'm worried about these 2 because I have townreads on everyone else" isn't an unexpected thing for a town yamato imo. Certainly more unexpected for a mafia-yamato I'd say.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 09:43 GMT

#342

On June 21 2013 18:41 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv,
how do you get the conclusion that yamato is over-confident from him saying he has no clue who is SCUM and only who is town?

Also why is shiao pi scum?

Because yamato is handing out townreads like candy, as if he can read that many people that quickly.

Shiao is mafia for that horrible, lazy comment on yamato, with no followup.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 09:45 GMT

#345

No, for reasoning you're not clever enough to understand. I don't expect you to be able to make that distinction though.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 09:48 GMT

#348

On June 21 2013 18:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So the correct way to play scum apparently is to say "everyone is town" and when you are asked about it they are "all null besides that one guy"? Is this really what you are saying marv?

Do you think yamato is that bad as town and absolutely wouldn't do that as scum? It's kind of an easy way to say "there is nothing to comment on now, i wanna be friends with you all".

In what world do mafia make such an obvious consistency within such a short span of time? Certainly not one I play in, do you?

I don't think yamato is bad as town, I think he just says things too confidently and then has to pay for them somehow. It says something, I reckon, that yamato is one of the players I believe to be over-confident (and that's coming from me).

Like I said, I think he's more likely to do it as town, and more likely to be careful as mafia.

Oats, I'd like yamato to explain how he'd usually expect to view DP, which is why I already asked that question here.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 09:49 GMT

#350

EBWOP: such an obvious INconsistency, obviously.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 09:49 GMT

#351

On June 21 2013 18:48 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

No its absolutely bullshit and wrong.

Yamato calling everyone town is solving the game? No.

I'm done talking with you for now. This will get me or anyone else nowhere at all.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 10:04 GMT

#354

On June 21 2013 18:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, the bottom line here is that they were not town-reads in the first place. They were null-reads besides OO.
I know yamato is over-confident as town, why can't he mask that play as scum? I understand it might not be the case here but i'm worried about people taking his words at face-value (in case he is actually town).

I want him to explain himself, why would you call someone town who you think is actually null?

I want people to explain why they are taking yamato's bullshit reads at face value when he "corrects" them.

Do you, marv, take everything at face value when someone just says they "made a mistake"? Or is it only yamato?

I don't understand your angle here. I've explained why I thought it was more likely from a town-yamato than a mafia-yamato. I called yamato a light townread, not certain town. He could be mafia, so in answer to your question, yes he could try to mimic his town play as mafia like that, I just find it the less likely of the two options.

Nor is what I've said giving yamato a free-pass into not explaining himself (further?).

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 10:12 GMT

#358

On June 21 2013 19:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What Oats just said. Marv, can you back up this meta-read on yamato somehow? I'll give you a hint, look at LXI & Red and you'll find out what's different in town!yamato's arrogance compared to scum!yamato. I'll give you another hint, you can't.

yamato is scum.

Sorry broski, just not feeling it right now. Pursue it all you like and we'll see what happens, it's early.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 10:18 GMT

#361

Nothing at all yet.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 10:21 GMT

#362

On June 21 2013 19:18 DarthPunk wrote:

Show nested quote +

I actually thought about this while i was watching TV and the comment marv made about handing out town reads like candy. That is actually something scum often do because they find it difficult to form scum reads. So it sort of lends credence to the idea that if his process has changed it has become scummier. Also marvs town read on him is based on yamato's personality from what i can tell.

Yes, I've played practically every game yamato has played, or if not I've obsed those games. It's just how I view his plays.

As for the townreads, as a general point it's correct, but in this case he's not pretending to make effort by going "x is town because of y", he's making a blanket statement. For a similar example, see Hero Mini Mafia:

On December 10 2012 16:08 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Name someone you find scummy this game.

Can't? Okay. Process of elimination.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 10:25 GMT

#365

On June 21 2013 19:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thats wbg not yamato.

Also that was like ~5 into the game maybe?

It's irrelevant who it was, I was pointing out that it's a thought process I've seen townies use before.

Do you see mafia say "I think the whole town is fine, except x and y"? If so, when? Because I can't think of anything.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 10:36 GMT

#368

On June 21 2013 19:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why can't you marv understand that this is not what yamato is saying. He is sayiong "the whole town is fine besides X and Y" and when asked about it he is saying "actually the whole town is null, including X and Y, besides Z".

I think that's very different what you just said here.

I do understand, I just don't attach the importance that you do to it.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

June 21 2013 11:02 GMT

#372

On June 21 2013 19:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv:
I don't get it. ShiaoPi is scum for calling yamato scum, which you describe as "horribly lazy comment".
yamato is town for calling people town and worrysome when they in fact were null for him. How is that not a "horribly lazy comment" in the first place?

Does ShiaoPi do that as scum but not as town? Can you back that up somehow?

There is something that worries me in ShiaoPi's comment about yamato, but i'm not going to reveal it yet. Can anyone see what that is?

ShiaoPi; elaborate your read on yamato please. Anyone else you find scummy here at the moment?

Here's the thing, rayn. Everyone in mafia is not equal and different things are scummy for different players. Applying what yamato did to what Shiao did is a false equivalent, and I've explained how and why I view what yamato did. Further, as a reminder:

On June 21 2013 18:48 marvellosity wrote:

In what world do mafia make such an obvious [in]consistency within such a short span of time? Certainly not one I play in, do you?

As for Shiao, I'm not going to be drawing meta comparisons to justify looking into one bad comment. The simple fact is that he

a) posted something for the sake of posting
b) was too lazy to check on what he was asking himself
c) implied yamato was 'scummy as shit' without every even attempting to explain why he thought that, and disappearing.