• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:04
CEST 06:04
KST 13:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview26Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL46Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates8GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th12Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview Magnus Carlsen and Fabi review Clem's chess game. Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Cheeseadelphia 2025 - Open Bracket LAN!
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion I made an ASL quiz
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 1
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9061 users

Newbie Mini Mafia XXXII

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 02 2012 00:48 GMT
#19
/in
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 02 2012 17:15 GMT
#51
Dammit Prom, what have you gotten me into? Actually, I don't care, way too excited.
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 01:26 GMT
#162
Alright
1) I haven't played a game yet, but I did obs XXXII
2) I am of the opinion that lynches should be saved for top scum reads and that removing inactive players might not be as productive for town as it is for scum, since were just doing their work for them.
3)(Oats)- Don't give me none of that pie or cheesecake, the only true dessert is ice cream.
(CC)- Green.
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 01:40 GMT
#171
Yam and Rad. You guys make good points, I guess what I mean is that it should be used as a last resort, since some lurkers are just town that have their reasons for sitting out, like Munkee or Aqua in last newbie game, and won't stop lurking just because of the lurker lynch policy exists as pressure. Also, less information seems to come out of taking the easy lynch, whereas going for the contentious choice forces both town and scum to come up with better arguments than just "well, have to get rid of someone at the end of the day".
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 01:54 GMT
#181
That is fair Kick, but we still haven't heard a thing from Sylencia yet, and it would nice to have everyone's initial opinions on it if possible
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 02:20 GMT
#216
CC, hard to say, but based off of what I saw from last game bad newbies seem to get the conversation working against themselves (such as oats last game,sry) whereas scum seems to be content to just stoke the flames (see kick trying to get an early mislynch on oats last game).
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 05:08 GMT
#279
Oats I have a question for you, isn't Kick's behavior right now (becoming quickly suspicious of the first person to promote the idea of a lynch) similar to how he moved against you in the beginning of XXXI, when he was playing scum? What do you think?
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 05:24 GMT
#282
Then what about Yam pursuing a line of questions on Axle is scummy? Isn't finding peoples motivations the goal of town?
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 05:25 GMT
#284
Also Oats, I would be inclined to agree, since his jump on you last game was fairly immediate. That being said, so far his accusation without much substance...
On December 04 2012 12:45 Kickstart wrote:
##FoS yamato

Badgering people then voting them when they ignore his badgering

...and then following question to the thread...
On December 04 2012 12:47 Kickstart wrote:
I may be too early to jump the gun on thinking yamato is being scummy, but I haven't liked his incessant policy talk and now he just jumps on someone who he is badgering. Thoughts everyone?

...have both seemed iffy to me. It's like he wants the attention to be on Yam but requires the rest of us to have input to actually provide a case on him. Seems a little scummy to me. I might also just be paranoid.
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 05:43 GMT
#288
Sorry if I'm off base right now man, but I'm looking at Kick, his wishy washy approach on Yam Man has me pretty uneasy. Also just how his beginning play seemed focused on merely criticizing the conversation but not really offer much in the way of substitute seemed not conducive to cooperative town play.

I'm also a little concerned about how into the game Axle was at the beginning before the game actually went underway, as opposed to how withdrawn he has been about answering peoples question since stuff got moving, but I'm willing to chalk that up to first game discomfort, I know I'm feeling it.

Kinda sucks having an inactive thread (of which I have been guilty of) because I can't make reads on a good chunk of the players
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 06:21 GMT
#294
It's 2 in the morning here, and I still have many papers to write tomorrow, so I'm off to bed. I'll be back on in like 9 hours or so. Hopefully more will start happening as the deadline approacheth.
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 15:58 GMT
#369
Back in the thread, just woke up. Oats, earlier you asked me to give some of my reads, which I did. I was wondering if you could return the favor and say what your current scum reads are?
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 17:31 GMT
#385
CC I think the scum agenda comes not just from his initial FoS, but his behavior afterwards.
On December 04 2012 14:24 Kickstart wrote:
For example I FoSd Yamato because I don't like much his actions up to this point. It was mostly that what he was doing didn't sit well with me therefor I pointed out what I didn't like and asked others about it. Just the fact that to me he seemed really incessant with his policy talks and then just immediately threw a vote on someone when they didn't answer him. My reaction was just a gut reaction but to figure out if I think it is scummy or not I need to look through his dialogue and try and figure out his intentions, but I wanted to see what others thought about it if anything.

It looks here as if he's saying "I'm suspicious and I will, at some point, look at Oats for actual evidence, but until then can you guys come up with a reason for why he might be scum?" It might just be lazy town actions, but I feel like if Kick was actually suspicious of Oat's actions he should actually try to pursue that suspicion. Asking towns feelings about something before offering your own concrete opinion seems pretty scummy to me
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 18:22 GMT
#394
CC, do YOU have any reads on Kick? Have you seen any behavior on his part that would suggest town over scum or vice versa? You attack Oat's opinion on Kick, but what is yours?
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 04 2012 18:42 GMT
#402
God damn, I feel like a broken record, but jidol, what is your stance? Do you have any reads on Kick or Oats? You haven't said much this game and it would nice to hear what you think before you leave.
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 05 2012 02:21 GMT
#467
Based on the general style in which players have been approaching the game I have a couple of reads

First with regards to Yam Man, I have a bit of town read on him based mainly on the way he has been approaching the game by asking questions, even if they have been aggressive. This style of play seems to be harsh but information driven town play since it is actually creating an environment where conversation can actually move forward. This should be obvious given the fact we are still talking about it. If his move against Axle was scum motivated, to what end? He would possibly get Axle lynched and then be cast into immediate suspicion on D2, since he would called out for pushing a mis-lynch. This question oriented play style promotes clarity of peoples intentions, which is ultimate of town's goals

In contrast, all of Dickstart's actions have seemed to be aimed towards stalling the game. First, and I've made this point a couple of times, his wishy washy approach to pointing FoS on Yam Man did not help players understand the possible intentions. The fact that he put suspicion on Yam without trying to ask Yam why he acted the way he did does not provide information from Yam on whether he is scum or not. Kick did not ask for Yam's opinion on the accusation and instead attempted to get our reads on Yam without really committing to his own. Why would a town do this? This seems like a very scummy play, trying to get a case on player moving the conversation forward without actually providing any strong evidence on why that player is scum and fishing for scum reads from the rest of town to get that player lynched.
As for his case:
On December 04 2012 15:59 Kickstart wrote:
Right, I know it is early in the game but I am just going to throw this out there and try to make it as comprehensive as I can to try and get some real conversation going. So far I have some suspicions on Yamato and Rad. (I will also note that as an aside that Rad defended Yamato against one of my questions but association cases are bad day 1, just interesting that there are two people I find suspicious and one is defending the other.)

Yamato77
As I have stated before, I find Yamato's incessant policy talk a bit suspicious and that was the first thing to draw my attention to him. I have to look at it and see what his possible intentions could be. As town, policy talk is ok to start with, but I think it is best to say what needs to be said and not dwell on it much, where as scum would try and drown the thread with as much policy talk as possible as it is really unlikely to gain any useful information from it.
Taking a look at Yamato's filter shows that most of it is policy talk and then he has an exchange with Axl. Now on his points against Axl I am in agreement. Axl is posting way too much in the way of "I am a noob and everyone else here is better than me" and things of that sort, and I too expect this to end. But I am not sure if the way Yamato reacted to this is town oriented. I can't help but feel that from a town perspective, someone would be a bit more helpful and not putting so much pressure on him and then throwing a vote on him when he doesn't respond. To elaborate a bit:

So far Axl is putting out this vibe of being a noobie. Now I won't say town or scum because he is not doing a great job of answering questions and is really posting way too much about how noobie he thinks he is. To me, a town would look at this and react by first encouraging Axl but then pushing him slightly. A good example would be to give some support but to remind him that he needs to just post what he is thinking and why for the sake of town clarity. Here is my post directed at Axl:

Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 15:11 Kickstart wrote:
Axle being new is not a bad thing and being unsure isn't. In my first game I didn't really know what I was doing either (and to say I know exactly what I am doing now would be a stretch) but I just tried to be as honest as I could and put my thoughts and opinions out there and that alone will show what your intentions are. If you are town, and you tell everyone what you think and why, then you have done your job (as far as confirming your "townyness" (or whatever the right word is) is concerned), the only other thing to do is to try and find scum, but it should be clear who you think is scum when you give your thoughts and the reasoning behind them.

Also, if you haven't already, contact the coaches, they signed up because they want to help so don't be afraid to talk with them. [that is true for everyone in the thread]


I gave as much support as I could but I also made it clear that it is important for Axl to post what he is thinking and why; and note that other players reacted in much the same way as I did.

Now look at the way Yamato reacts to Axl:

Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:19 yamato77 wrote:
On December 04 2012 12:16 AxleGreaser wrote:
On December 04 2012 11:22 yamato77 wrote:
On December 04 2012 11:19 AxleGreaser wrote:
On December 04 2012 11:09 jidolboy wrote:
On December 04 2012 11:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@jidolboy

What do you believe is the best thing for a good town atmosphere Day 1?



I'm not too sure but talking about random things is a good way to tart guess. I mean there is nothing else to talk about because nothing major had happened yet


The social parts of the discussion break the ice and get things going.
The on topic parts, such as what is our plan and objective let you see if people are deflecting away from anything.



Not to badger you, but do you have thoughts on lurker lynching? Or any ideas about day 1 town plans?


your question has two parts.
What were you trying to find out when you asked this question.
What did you want to achieve.
Or any ideas about day 1 town plans?

Lurker lynch discussion IS a day one plan in my opinion, at least early on where people don't have much to talk about anyway. You weren't responding so I decided to ask you again, because your input is valuable to MY evaluation process. So in essence it's the same question. Either you participate in the lurker lynch discussion or offer up your own plan of action for town day one.


Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:20 yamato77 wrote:
EBWOP: Or you lurk and avoid my questions until I vote for you.


Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:38 yamato77 wrote:
By the way right now it seems like you're avoiding me.


Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
EBWOP: Oh, you actually ARE avoiding me, cool.

##Vote AxleGreaser


This is almost the exact opposite reaction that I and pretty much everyone else in the thread have displayed in regards to Axl. Yamato is being really aggressive (I used the term badgering earlier). He doesn't see that there is a timid first timer and try and be encouraging but productive, he instead seems to try and take this opportunity to attack and throw his vote onto a noobie town.

Here he attacks Yam's use of pressure, which as I've already stated, seems to be more of a town play than scum. Also, going after weaker noobs is more indicative of a town looking for answers, and a scum player would be more focused on targeting noobs who were playing scummily.
Kick also gives HIMSELF as an example of proper treatment of confused noobs, which basically says "Hey, guys look at what a good town I am!! I'm not picking on poor defenseless Axle, and anyone who does is clearly scum!" This is a shit argument since it only says that players who play nice are town and players who are jerks are clearly scum, and by the way, Kick plays nice and thus must be town. I fear it comes from a mischievous scum looking to get a mislynch on a semi-suspicious player than from a concerned town and so I'm going to go ahead and ##Vote Kickstart
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 05 2012 02:45 GMT
#485
Address its points then Kick, explain why I'm wrong.
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 05 2012 02:48 GMT
#488
cc I was kinda vocal for awhile now that I've thought Kick has been suspect, and I would also appreciate if you would address the problems in the case as you see it, instead of just dismissing it.
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 05 2012 02:53 GMT
#491
@AxleGreaser ಠ_ಠ
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
Arnarnion
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada39 Posts
December 05 2012 03:22 GMT
#516
EBWOP: Sorry, I thought this had posted this right after my case ##Vote: Kickstart
The Omega Spider of Hip-Hop
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SOOP Global
03:00
#21
Creator vs Rogue
Cure vs Classic
LaughNgamezSOOP
LiquipediaDiscussion
Replay Cast
00:00
Showmatches
Liquipedia
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
Bracket Stage: Day 1
StRyKeR vs MadiNho
Cross vs UltrA
TT1 vs JDConan
Bonyth vs Sziky
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft398
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18047
Sharp 103
Leta 86
soO 73
Mind 26
Noble 22
Bale 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever193
NeuroSwarm106
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 826
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1734
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor143
Other Games
summit1g6728
shahzam1337
WinterStarcraft320
ViBE238
RuFF_SC2136
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick565
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta43
• practicex 37
• Kozan
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 21
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5793
• Lourlo779
• Stunt288
Other Games
• Scarra1203
Upcoming Events
SOOP
4h 56m
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 56m
AllThingsProtoss
6h 56m
Fire Grow Cup
10h 56m
BSL: ProLeague
13h 56m
HBO vs Doodle
spx vs Tech
DragOn vs Hawk
Dewalt vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
19h 56m
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
3 days
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL Code S
4 days
herO vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Cheesadelphia
6 days
Cheesadelphia
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.