EPT<3 please and thank you.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXIV
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
<3 please and thank you. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
On August 15 2012 09:42 Shady Sands wrote: + Show Spoiler [Thoughts on XXIII] + I'm still really mad at Hapa for essentially winning on luck in XXIII. Had GK actually spoken up in the game, Hapa wouldn't have had the GK lynch to work off of and we scum could have safely NK'd him without worrying about a medic save. Howdy town. Let's kick some scum ass. A few policy notes:
That's all for now, good luck everyone. This is my first time playing, but I did read XXIII in preparation for this game and the policy seemed effective, because even if the scum is being active everyone has a a good sample of posts to analyze and hopefully make more accurate reads. As a Townee, I promote any policy that helps us catch scum, but we must back accusation up with evidence(which this policy should provided) and reason. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
On August 15 2012 10:11 thrawn2112 wrote: I am not really worried, but am trying to learn from other people's experiences if there is any reason to worry. I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Therefore I'm not going to continue posting about it until something happens along the lines of way too many unexplained town deaths. To follow that point up, I feel like the scum threat is a lot stronger than SK because they are organized and know who to attack. A SK in my eyes is like a scum with only one person in it that can attack other scums independently. So if any exist in this game they shouldn't become an issue until later in the game. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
On August 15 2012 10:37 Shady Sands wrote: Quick question: If you've never played with Solarsail before, how would you know whether his points are less or more articulate than they could be? Seconding your point on the profanities though. I think that the loss of articulation is inherent with any emotionally charged post, because it is harder to be swayed by emotional appeals when arguments are in written format and there is sufficient time to think about them. I don't think this point by thrawn has anything to do with knowing Solarsails meta. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
Case: Jhuyt puts: On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there. then Solar puts: Secondly, the continued defence of me by Thrawn has no basis. I was clearly being anti-town. Some evidence: "I am still of the opinion that solar's posts are somewhat likely to be emotional overreactions rather than scummy." "Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar?" "Most of the discussion right now is about solarsail. I don't think there's anything wrong with this because so far his posts haven't seemed very useful but we have still yet to hear from several players. He could easily be town and just reacting to everyone immediately jumping on his case as soon as the game starts." "Suspicion of a soft accusation is hardly good evidence that he should be lynched especially when there has been so little discussion so far so I am not sold on your case against him." There is little reason to defend me so much unless your motivation is to defend someone he knows to be town player for deflection reasons. May main concern is two-fold: 1) Jhuyt claims Solar is just an emotional by his previous TL post history, which later Solar claims to be a deliberate act. Futhermore, skimming through Solar TL post history it doesn't seem that emotionally based. In fact, it is closer to his current professionalism. I believe Jhuyt defense of him is a blatant lie. 2) Solar questions why Thrawn is defending him, but not Jhuyt. Other people defend Solar has a bad townies, and to shape up his posting, while Jhuyt explained Solar behavior (falsely) as that is the type of person solar is. This leads me wonder why would Solar question Thrawn's motives and not Jhuyt? This plays out four ways: If Jhuyt is townie and Solar is townie then Solar should of suspected his motives like he did with thrawn or both of them are mason and there is no need to question each others motives. I believe them being Masons is possible. If Jhuyt is townie and Solar is scum then why would jhuyt lie about Solar's posting? Futhermore, why wouldn't Solar call Jhuyt out like he did with Thrawn? The only why I can see is to put focus on one person. This seems dishonest. nor does it allievate Jhuyt roll. under those ground I reject this possibility. If Jhuyt is scum and Solar is scum then either a bus play could happen(which didn't) or they could protect each other. They could directly protect each other by offering counter arguments against both of them, (which only Jhuyt did in that one line lie) or indirectly by not bringing attention to each other(which would be a play that Solar made. I believe them both being scum is possible. Finally, if Jhuyt is scum and Solar is townie then by lying Jhuyt post (which occured before Solar) puts focus on Shady and potentially has some a townie on his side. Solar likewise either became a townie by his side(doubtful, because he didn't defend him against Shady's accusation) or Solar would of question his motive like he did with thrawn. I reject this possibility as stated above. This leads me to believe Jhuyt and Solar are Scum or Masons. Thoughts? Concerns? Did I miss something? I don't think Solar missed Jhuyt post because he was corresponding with Shady the entire page and part way through there correspondences Shady replied to Jhuyt. I want to emphasis I haven't look at the evidence agaisnt Thrawn thoroughly so I have no argument on him as scum or town at the moment. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I look into evidence about Thrawn and there was 3 main points against him: He was fluff, motive concerns by Solar and Z-Boson questioning of him. I came to the conclusion that he has shown some dodgy behavior. The beginning of the thread there was a lot of posts claiming Thrawn to being very fluffy, but the beginning was very chaotic and Thrawn was the only one. His posted definitely, picked up later. When Solar questioned Thrawn motive for defending his anti-town behavior Thrawn claims he changed Thrawn from Scummy to town who doesn't know the tone of the game. Just to confirm what I'm thinking, do we all trust solarsail's account of his first few posts, that he was trolling to get responses? I'm assuming we all do? Myself, I believe him. I don't think a player who posts like he initially posted would be able to post how he is posting now unless they were trolling. Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be. Honestly solar you were posting like you had just come in from a sc2 tournament thread, it was very hard to know what to make of that. IMO you actually caused more harm than if you would have allowed the discussion to remain on policy talk. The first few pages of posting were very chaotic and full of people making baseless accusations set by the tone of how you chose to play the game. Yes, I do think that myself and maybe some other people are able to make reads off the situation you created, but I think that those reads could have come regardless of your trolling. No where does he explain what prompted him to change his opinion from scummy to bad townie.Z-Boson questioned Thrawn about why did he choose me and not other lurkers and an accusation that Thrawn dodged Golbat. Thrawn has not explained himself to Golbat's concern yet. Thrawn rebuttal was mine had the most merit. Thrawn proceed to explain why I was a good candidate, but not why the other lurkers where not as good candidates. For those reason I am currently at ##Vote Thrawn2112 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ochrow was the first to claim against me and soon afterwards Thrawn join in. Therefore, I believe Z-Boson question on why should I be the focus over other lurkers stand towards him. Also, why focus on lurker lynching instead of scum hunting? did you not have a read on anyone as scum? Now this could just be my earlier suspicions talking as there is no real concrete evidence behind this, but it does seem that this was rather deflective, and if you did have suspicions as scum that those two were masons it would benefit you to try and get them lynched. I do encourage you however to prove me wrong, because as I said before I am not sure about this, its really more a feeling than anything. As it currently stands I am most suspicious of Arch for his lurking earlier, and the fact that as soon as he was called out on it his first reaction was an ooooh look this guy is scum post. And even with that post I felt that he was off the mark so until Arch or somebody else points out some reason or evidence that makes him look like a townie I don't feel like it was deflective because I brought up something that seemed wrong until solar set it straight(which I checked out). However, most people agreed that scumhunting is more than lynch lurking and there was quite a few people that had YH pegged as scum. If that is the case won't the safer play be to remain silent if I am scum? Also your example of it being beneficial for me to be to discover if they are masons assuming I am scum is unfair, because if I am scum then they would be either my partner which I am busing out of the blue or they are townies. If I am scum then I would want to make them look like scum, but in my argument I did not give a support to them being scum. But if I am a townie they discovering they are scum was be useful cause we would know who to lynch or if I was a townie knowing they are Masons would remove 2 people off a possible list of suspects leaving every townie that is not them 10 people to look at instead of 12. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
On August 16 2012 07:11 thrawn2112 wrote: FOS Archrun Archrun, you have made 3 posts so far and none of them have had anything directly to do with scumhunting. Can you tell us what you think about shady's claims concerning solar, myself, and newharry? My suspicion of Archrun was independent of Ochrow's orignal post. This is why I believe your post was not independent from Ochrow's post. Archrun, what did Gobalt ever say to me? Are you talking about his post 6 hours after the game started, when only a few people had posted so far, where he says I am the scummiest because of my SK comment? If you think that post was scum thrawn trying to distract from scumhunting, then you need to read it again: On August 15 2012 15:18 Golbat wrote: So far, I think that the scummiest person i've seen is thrawn. He's not really said much of substance, which is of course understandable being so early in the game, but his fixation on making sure people know there could be an SK in the game is a little bit strange. Your response was: Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts. You never gave a defense you just said you can't response now and question whether you should even answer it. Later in Z-Boson post about you Z-Boson calls your response a dodge. I agreed with Z-Boson assessment. ... However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with: And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
On August 17 2012 04:52 Stutters695 wrote: My current vote is going to Archrun. I am suspicious of Thrawn but reading Mkfuba and GK's posts about him I'd like to see a little more out of him before coming to a conclusion on him. ##Vote Archrun Here's why I think Archrun is our best lynch (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=155910 - Full Filter for easy reference): So far he has a total of six posts in this game. I don't find that particularly suspicious but what I do find suspicious is that he looks active throughout without actually looking for scum. In his first post he says the policy from XXIII and that as a VT he promotes "any policy that helps us catch scum." Although you can't expect scumhunting this early, I wanted to point out his noncommittal attitude. Now he has two more posts for that day. The first one is agreeing with both Shady and thrawn's statements that a SK is a non-issue at this point for the town. This has already been agreed upon and he didn't contribute anything new with his post except that a team of 3 is more dangerous than a 1 man team. His only other post before disappearing for 24 hours is soft defending Thrawn from Shady. Fast forward 26 hours and we get to the point that really stood out to me and caused me to look into him more closely. First his case on Solar and Jhuyt: This appears to be his largest contribution to the thread. He has a premise and uses some facts to back it up. Most of the post is WIFOM and doesn't really contribute anything. The part I want to emphasize is the first part of his two-fold concern. "May main concern is two-fold: 1) Jhuyt claims Solar is just an emotional by his previous TL post history, which later Solar claims to be a deliberate act. Futhermore, skimming through Solar TL post history it doesn't seem that emotionally based. In fact, it is closer to his current professionalism. I believe Jhuyt defense of him is a blatant lie. 2) Solar questions why Thrawn is defending him, but not Jhuyt. Other people defend Solar has a bad townies, and to shape up his posting, while Jhuyt explained Solar behavior (falsely) as that is the type of person solar is." Now fast forward six hours to his next post: At the very start of this post he immediately refutes his previous case by saying "Alright after looking into Solar claim about a history with him and Jhuyt I can believe that Jhuyt was under the impression Solar could be emotionally." At this point from the start of the game until this post he has spent over 30 hours without contributing anything while appearing very active. Now moving forward to his case on Thrawn, the meat of it is in that Thrawn doesn't "explain what prompted him to change his opinion from scummy to bad townie." However if you read the quote regarding it in Archrun's post it is explaining exactly why. The rest of his case is just sheeping off of Solar and Z-Boson's claims against Thrawn. His very last post is a bunch of quotes that I honestly have a hard time following but again he sheeps off of another player's accusations. Tl;dr - Read the post and see why Archrun has been hiding his lack of contribution while appearing active. So my first Question is why do you think my Case about Jhuyt and Solar was WiFoM? Is it because I narrow down a one conclusion? I felt my case was relevant because determining if people are on a team together could help discovered their agenda in the same way that contribution helps. However, I admit my premise was flaw and that case no longer holds water. My as far as my lack of scum hunting goes I there is three things I would to point out. First, I believe accusing Solar or Jhuyt as scum while ignoring the possibly as Mason is an unfair and baseless. Second, I claim Thrawn a scum because I did not feel like he answer the questions. The claim of parroting Solar and Z-Boson. My parroting of Z-Boson was a few points he brought up but at the time was not answer. The Thrawn as answer the question of why me over other lurkers with: Gobalt had accused me of being scummy, and had expressed belief in solar's innocence during the troll posts Jhyut made the comment about his outside experience with solar and he softly accused yh of being scummy Ochrow said he thought solar was town and that shady had read too much into solar's posts Stutters did not think that shady was right. Stuters didnt think that solar's post was intended as a soft accusaton of stutter's post My questioning of Thrawn about the Solar had to do when Thrawn decide that Solar was a bad townie rather than a scum before Solar admitted to deliberate trolling. The line you quote is what is the consensus of Solar not being scum after solar claims he was deliberately trolling. Reference: Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be. As far as my hard to follow but parroting post as you call it. The first section was in rebuttal to Thrawn saying his FoS on me was indepent from Ochrow. I quoted him quote ochrow FoS against me and at the think he did not post this thoughts on other lurkers. My second section was when Thrawn ask what did golbat post against him Archrun, what did Gobalt ever say to me? Then Thrawn proceeds to say Are you talking about his post 6 hours after the game started, when only a few people had posted so far, where he says I am the scummiest because of my SK comment? If you think that post was scum thrawn trying to distract from scumhunting, then you need to read it again: Looking over Thrawn response again it says: Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts. the post in question: On August 15 2012 15:25 thrawn2112 wrote: Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts. Z-Boson says you dodge the question and I agreed. So yes I admit to agreeing with someone else point. I am going to keep my vote on Thrawn but I am going to look at the posts against Shady, so this my change. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
The first big complaint against Shady was his aggressive behavior. Has point out by several people this could be a scum move or it could be a townie move, but this behavior warrants suspicion. I believe that the aggressive posting Shady exhibits is bad. But should but I don't think it is inherently enough to claim he is scum. The second big complaint is arguments are stretches. Looking over the thread several of his arguments where on weak grounds and this is bad for the the town. One of those argument was a connection between Thrawn and Ochrow. Currently, I the only thing I believe that supports this is when Thrawn quoted Ochrow on FoSing me. The other claims about suspicion between the two I find shaky at best. I use this example because it is more recent, where other stretch claims where early in the game. This is scummy behavior, but could be a by product of his aggressiveness. The third big complaint against Shady is how he tunneled on Thrawn and told everyone to just vote to lynch him. His justification at the time to lynch Thrawn were reasonable. Telling everyone to just vote Thrawn left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but I see this as something similar to when Hapa in XXIII told everyone to vote switch to Goodkarma. He also did have several things written on Thrawn so I don't see this as scummy. Currently, I think that shady is either scummy or anti-town, but I think that his scumness is on the low scale. on Thrawn: I think one that is was weird is how he went after lurkers after agreeing with GK it is better to focus on scum(which at the time was YH) than it is to lynch lurkers. Makes me feel suspicious, but it could just be a way to promote lurkers from posting. Further more I find it suspicious about his OMGUS play against Shady. Currently, I feel that if Shady is lynched and is town then we should lynch Thrawn, Likewise, if Thrawn is lynch then we should lynch Shady. If one of them is scum then the other is town. I doubt any busing is occurring because if they were on a team they could of just focus me rather than fight among each other. With that I am going to keep my vote but if Thrawn flips townie Shady is becomes my number one suspect. | ||
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
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Archrun
United States20 Posts
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