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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 10 2012 14:07 GMT
#91
/in

There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 17:17 GMT
#353
Trying to keep up with reading.
On July 17 2012 02:07 Katina wrote:
Okay, I have read through the thread and I will give my thoughts so far.

Palmar is Mafia: He puts out the idea of a random lynch and tries to convince the town to go with it. Random lynches are a bad idea, yes there are a lot of mafia but there are more townies. There's a higher chance of hitting a townie D1 which I rather not have happen. Palmar's defenses and responses to other people are pretty interesting and lacking to say the least.
Here are a couple recent ones that I pulled from his filter. When Marv confronted Palmar and asked his to share this is how Palmar replied
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 21:21 Palmar wrote:
I don't want to talk to you anymore marvellosity


Then a couple of pages later comes back with this
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 00:00 Palmar wrote:
I hate you guys.

I thought it was interesting and wanted to bring attention to him.

Palmar as isn't playing like his "Usual" self this game. He hasn't started up his play of calling people idiots and chewing them out for disagreeing with him. Instead he has been trying to keep his mouth shut in case he gets a few people a little too angry and the votes start shifting towards him.

As for BH, I'm not too sure about him yet. I'm going to wait to see more until I make a decision on him.

Kurumi: I'm leaning suspicious on. I have been in enough games with him where he's been Mafia to have a good idea of how he plays. So far he hasn't been as obnoxious and confusing as he has been previously in other games but there is still enough to make me be weary. Until I see more I'm going to keep an eye on him.

This is an awful post.

A. You clearly did not read austin's post here + Show Spoiler +
On July 16 2012 22:17 austinmcc wrote:
Ummmm, did nobody read iGrok's game?
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 18:19 Palmar wrote:
Supporting an RNG lynch is not a bad idea. It's a net gain for town, as long as you settle the target early enough. It will actually help a lot trying to figure out what really is going on in the game. It creates an unusual situation that most people aren't sure how to react to, and it's in an unstable environment it's easiest to catch mafia. The point is that you can't really explain that in the thread (hence why I didn't) because as soon as everyone realizes you're meant to argue about whether you actually follow through with the random lynch, instead of just executing it, everyone will start thinking about it like a normal case based on analysis, and the advantage will have been lost.

I'm hoping some of you remember this for future games, I've yet to successfully push through the idea of a RL because of it's inherent flaw that you can't explain it. It's like why arguing about LAL is dumb as shit. As soon as you argue about it, you've given people an excuse to lie. You just shut your stupid face and say that it's a 100% solid policy and liars WILL be lynched, while secretly keeping yourself in check and being ready to go against that position.

Anyway, enough about how to play mafia.
The %s may be higher here, but a random lynch still isn't anything but a discussion-generator. That game was 2 scum 1 SK 8 town, 3/11 or 27% chance to hit non-town on a random lynch. This is 9/27, 33% chance. Not higher enough to really matter.

I like the discussion of causing chaos to mess with mafia, to some extent. Just like with the Sleeper Cell games, this isn't normal mafia. Town have the numbers advantage, and, for now, are more or less on even footing information-wise. Scum don't have an advantage UNTIL they get organized. Some forms of being chaotic would be equally harmful to both factions, other forms would be more harmful to town (higher numbers).

However, I don't support trying to cause chaos, because we don't know (and can't know) when mafia will get organized. We can speculate all we want about how many cycles it could take, and how each of us would communicate with mafia underlings were we CEO (see sleeper cell...II? for message speculation), but, especially given the vague comments about censoring messages made by hosts, we just don't know whether mafia can get fully organized, or how long that would take. At some point, IF they can organize, any chaos we cause only hurts town and no longer hurts mafia. Not good.

, which is from another game, explaining Palmar's beliefs on random lynching and how they are pro-town.

B. His response to Marv is also explained in that same post
The point is that you can't really explain that in the thread (hence why I didn't) because as soon as everyone realizes you're meant to argue about whether you actually follow through with the random lynch, instead of just executing it, everyone will start thinking about it like a normal case based on analysis, and the advantage will have been lost.
..

C. The "I hate you all" post was (i think) in response to Austin post, because it says explicitly that it cant be explained in thread or it is ruined.

D. Palmar does call us all stupid
On July 16 2012 21:29 Palmar wrote:
I should've signed up with two accounts, that way I'd at least have someone intelligent to talk to.


When Katina posts this bad she is scum. I think Katina is scum.
##vote Katina




Another post that I liked was this

On July 16 2012 15:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I almost...
It'd be irresponsible to call someone scum after one post....
just want to put this out there


That is some Grade A carefullness, right there. Those phrases in particular are very passive. [/QUOTE]

There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 17:19 GMT
#355
mutha trucker i done messed up the formatting of prob's quote

Palmar, since I am an idiot (the first step is admitting right), can you explain to me why syllogism is scum to you?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 17:24 GMT
#360
On July 17 2012 02:21 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 01:35 Blazinghand wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Oh my lord, you're right. Syllo's managed to make several posts without actually comitting to anything at all. I take it all back, he's the scum here. He agrees with Sandro on me, but doesn't do anything about it. He would "like to lynch" probulous, but doesn't vote him.

I've seen the light.

##unvote
##vote: syllogism


die scum


oh this makes his stuff look artificial... looks like he doesn't believe his own words. ahm okay. maybe i was wrong.
BH can you link me like 2 recent towngames of you please?

BH being all over the place and aggressive is like, the definition of his town play. If he offers to eat his hat (and turns out to be wrong) in the next ~5 posts he's like basically confirmed town
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 17:24 GMT
#362
Supersoft what do you think of my post on Katina
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 17:25 GMT
#364
Palmar, Answer my question?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 17:36 GMT
#377
CAN SOMEONE READ WHAT I POSTED ON KATINA, AT THE VERY LEAST TO JUST TELL ME IM WRONG
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 18:01 GMT
#393
I would be completely behind a Meapack lynch today. Even his most recent response to Syllo reeks of trying to look townie.
I want him to change his behavior since the less shit that goes on in the thread the better, he can still be scum but the thread won't be a nightmare to read and we can simply catch him later
This is the type of stuff people write so that they can look pro-town and look like they make sense. He seems to be trying to look sensible and not shitstorm causing which I feel is a common tactic used by scum to deflect attention from themselves.

I already quoted Prob on him being extremely passive and careful, and I think he has continued that since




I don't understand the Syllogism case despite reading BH's posts. This is why I asked Palmar to explain it to me which he hasn't. If anyone else would like to explain it to me that would be much appreciated




I think Prob has called out MZ for something I agree with to be scummy. Therefore at this moment I would not vote him over MZ.




I already said why I think BH is town

Right now I lean town on Palmar. I don't see anything scummy about his game play




My point with Katina is not just that she is wrong. It is the flaws in logic and the lack of reading she does when making her case against Palmar. These are things that scum katina does, town Katina may not always be right, but she makes a hell of a lot more sense then here
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 18:04 GMT
#394
On July 17 2012 02:54 Katina wrote:
Mattchew, I have no idea where that "case against me came from. I made one post and voted on who I thought was the most suspicious and you immediately jump all over me and assume I'm Mafia. WBG has that corner covered. I didn't know that giving my opinion on what's been going on is scummy. It's D1 a majority of the cases are going to be bad (Ex: Your case on me) Don't read into things that aren't there. I'm town. Move onto someone else that is actually scummy.

OMGUS -> Passive -> Deflection -> Passive -> OMGUS

SUPER COMBO

This is supposed to make me think you are town?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 18:13 GMT
#396
On July 17 2012 03:09 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
so mattchew lemme get this right, I'm scummy because I "seems to be trying to look sensible and not shitstorm causing." Umm... duh so basically I'm scum because I'm playing protown? That's some pretty wicked logic there.

cause you are playing an easy to fake pro-town without actually doing anything pro-town
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 18:21 GMT
#398
On July 17 2012 03:17 Katina wrote:
@ Mattchew

What are you talking about? You are the one making absolutely no sense. I know I'm an easy target to get mislynched but that's not going to happen today. You think that scummy people are town and people that aren't that scummy you are pushing for to get lynched. Your points against me are based off of nothing except the fact that your reads are different than mine. I'm trying to find scum and you just made your way onto my Mafia list with Palmar. You come out of nowhere and immediately jump all over one of my posts then nit pick at my response to you. The reasoning for your suspicions are bad and have close to nothing to back any of it up with. Most of what you say you just pulled out of thin air. You are making a sad attempt to do what WBG does in attempts to try and get me lynched.


You literally haven't answered any of my points in my case against you and you still fail to even quote what I have wrote. I can't tell if you haven't read it or if you just don't know how to respond to the truth
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 18:27 GMT
#405
On July 17 2012 03:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 03:13 Mattchew wrote:
On July 17 2012 03:09 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
so mattchew lemme get this right, I'm scummy because I "seems to be trying to look sensible and not shitstorm causing." Umm... duh so basically I'm scum because I'm playing protown? That's some pretty wicked logic there.

cause you are playing an easy to fake pro-town without actually doing anything pro-town

That's bullshit and you know it lol.

you have said the word "chaos" or talked about town stability in almost every post you have made. Did you elect yourself town peacekeeper? Because basically every one of your posts has extremely little to do with actually finding and lynching scum
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 18:33 GMT
#407
On July 17 2012 03:29 austinmcc wrote:
Matt, your case on Katina is wrong, regardless of what alignment she is.

I posted that bit from iGrok's game. Some of the players in this game played in that game. At least one of the players here read that game closely. If a random lynch is pro-town because it generates information until you pull back the curtain, then it functions differently here, because the curtain is already pulled back (it took all of like 30 seconds to find that post). Can't assume that he's throwing out the random lynch idea for he same reason as normal.

Katina may be wrong about some bits of her case on Palmar, but I think you're also wrong about her.


I don't think you are correct. I think Palmar was doing EXACTLY what he said in that other game and is pissed that you quoted him from it, thus revealing his curtain

There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 18:52 GMT
#418
Katina what do you think of VE
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 16 2012 19:08 GMT
#422
More evidence against Katina. She pushes Palmar for wanting the RL but doesn't mention Hiropro who also came out in favor of it. She says that she doesn't like Palmar's defense with his "I hate you guys" and "I dont want to talk to marv anymore" post but then posts this to me
On July 17 2012 02:48 Katina wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 02:36 Mattchew wrote:
CAN SOMEONE READ WHAT I POSTED ON KATINA, AT THE VERY LEAST TO JUST TELL ME IM WRONG


You're wrong



WBG said here (LVI Obs) the way to catch Katina
Also if you read my reasoning behind Katina being scum that's essentially how you catch her. She was much more slippery this game, probably because she heeded the advice I gave her last time. She had multiple targets and she made "cases" on different people (last time she just tunneled one guy) but her downfall was that if she was town she would've equally attacked different people for the same reasons. In other words if she wanted stronger scumplay she should've been aware of contradicting herself


She ignores others in favor of RL and she contradicts herself about Palmars defense with her own completely lacking defense
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 17 2012 01:20 GMT
#613
On July 17 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 07:52 Katina wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lol @ Kurumi trying to insinuate that mafia know who town are in this setup (hint: they don't)

The desperate flailings and failings of a caught scum, too funny.

Also marv is a good scumhunter, an honorable scumhunter, let no harm befall him. Marv if you're town don't go afk, just ignore Kurumi. You can help me and sandro and whoever else is on town side. I'm still reading, but thoughts to come in a few hours after my lab.

Barring Kurumi I'd like to hear who Katina, Palmar, sandro, and syllo would kill right now.


Palmar mostly. Wouldn't mind syllo, or Mattchew.


<3

I believe you're the only one who even acknowledged my question.

I agree with all three kills but I'd rank them differently. Wouldn't mind killing Blazingscum and layabout too, they're all scum. All scum, god damn them.

Oh and Wiggles is AFK. Just thought I'd throw that out there, he hasn't posted yet. Possibly rolled scum again, the bastard. OH and BM is afk too. Wtf? Well hell, half the players are afk. W/e.

Let's focus on one player first:

Shit that makes layabout scummy:

Read his filter first, it's not long at all. Keep that in mind for a second.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=233798

He does nothing but shed doubt on sandro's claim. He instantly disbelieves it without considering other evidence. He knows the caliber of sandro's town play yet he doesn't even acknowledge the possibility that sandro could be town.

In addition he's stayed toward the back of the discussion, as he does when he is scum. When he is town he is out in front if he thinks people are being stupid. He will kick and scream and call people retarded if they're doing something he disagrees with. Clearly he disagrees with us sheeping sandro on his catch of Kurumi (otherwise why else would he shed doubt on it?) but notice that he actually doesn't do anything to stop the wagon.

i.e. his doubt is unfounded and he wants to undermine sandro without taking heat for the action itself. Scum tactic.

Kurumi is going to die at the end of the day.

Thus, we should kill someone else. Let's kill this guy for now. Make the bad man fly.

##unvote
##vote layabout

why do you want me dead?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 17 2012 02:17 GMT
#651
WBG can you explain to me your read on Katina?

Also, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=54241

That is Bill Murray's filter. I am always down with a BM lynch
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 17 2012 02:30 GMT
#657
On July 17 2012 11:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm kinda hamstrung until rastaban gets back so in the meantime I'll throw my name in with the people who want BH dead.

Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote:
WBG, after some thought, I agree with you. Although syllogism strikes me as scummy, Layabout is irredeemably so. Examining his filter (link) I cannot in good conscience NOT vote him. This is a big game and he's trying to skate by. Syllogism's posting history, while unfavorably comparable with the droppings of a flock of diuretic parrots, greatly outdoes Layabout's simply on strength of its existene.

Layabout is trying to skate by.

We can't let that happen.

##unvote
##vote: layabout

BH is really just going for whoever is currently the flavor of the hour, if you look at his posts he's simply flipped whenever thread opinion has changed. Also his reasons for voting people have been very sheepy, he's been gunning for syllo for the better part of the game but all of a sudden bugs waltzes in with a case and BH flips again.

##Unvote
##Vote: Blazinghand

Do you disagree with his reasoning for his votes? or just that he's jumping a lot?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 17 2012 02:46 GMT
#670
TBH i have no idea if any of these nukes or blocks are real

like I do not knowingly have a nuke

##nuke Bill Murray
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
July 17 2012 02:50 GMT
#672
Well, if there is no nuke launch announcement about mine, they are probably real. If there is an announcement we wont know who has nukes
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
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