Pretty much agree with plans going in so far.
I'll add in that there's a possibility of someone defecting from the plan early (maybe #1-3) for traitor cause not only would they help mafia by not blocking a critical role but also possibly messing up the plan entirely. Toad's plan of having two people being assigned a role would solve this problem as well cause then it would check the role of the person above.

1. CPR
2. Janitor
3. CPR
4. Janitor

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 14 2012 22:39 GMT

#386

I would rather have RB be used for a more useful purpose than just defending him(her)self. RB differs from CPR and Janitor in that those two roles cannot be used as town whereas RB can be.
Also, with your plan, we still cannot guarantee that the first person has CPR, which means that mafia can easily transfer it down to a scumbuddy without us knowing, which is extremely dangerous.
I would rather have vanilla townies than risk having mafia have 2 KP.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 14 2012 22:47 GMT

#388

Also, thought about the second person choosing CPR lying about checking if the CPR doctor, but that would only happen if that person was scum as that information is crucial for town to have. But scum have to at least try for CPR imo just in case someone defects the plan anyways, so then it would not matter.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 14 2012 23:06 GMT

#391

On May 15 2012 07:49 slOosh wrote:

Show nested quote +

So say we guarantee that the roles are limited to the top 4 picks. I still don't see how it prevents mafia from blatantly using CPR - how will we be able to attribute night kills to specific roles?

Well, first, the mafia has to be the first CPR from them to use the role. We won't be able to attribute night kills to roles anyways (unless tracker). The difference is that we know where the CPR is, and we will know when someone is abusing the power when there is consistently 2 Mafia KP.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 14 2012 23:52 GMT

#397

No, they revolve around denying mafia roles for an instawin (okay, maybe a bit exaggerated but not really).
I would also say no mass roleclaim cause that gives mafia way too much information.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 15 2012 02:48 GMT

#408

I'm good with the Qatol Compromise™ although it still allows the mafia to play the luck game. After those first three assignments though, everyone make there own judgement (as Qatol said).

@PaqMan No town would have a reason to not follow the plan given.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 15 2012 03:07 GMT

#410

lolz. The name (I think) comes from combining your idea of doubling up and hiros reluctancy to double up to some sort of randomized compromise.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 15 2012 04:51 GMT

#416

Investing 2 roles in denying does do what it accomplishes because then we know exactly where the role is. The reason why we're assigning CPR is that if not, we give scum an extra KP permanently. As long as town has the role, then we're safe. Us knowing where the CPR is means CPR scum can't abuse the power without us knowing (tracker, though qatol/toad says is useless, can check this; or roleblock; or seeing if there is consistent 2 KP being used).

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 15 2012 14:31 GMT

#449

We definitely aren't making a set draft list cause that turned out terribly in PYP3 (basically, gives scum a way to organize roles safely and scum knows where each role is).
I do agree with almost all of the roles that you posted, but I don't understand your reasoning for angry vig. Angry vig only gets one shot.

Also, still confused as to our plan against copycat. If copycat gets the role of the first power role that dies, how do we guarantee that that role isn't good for mafia (ie, first lynch is someone with a KP or RB, or first lynch is vanilla and mafia stacks on CPR doc)?

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 16 2012 19:16 GMT

#569

I beat PaqMan in RNG. I just picked my role.

@Qatol I think all of the roles for town are viable except for framer, traitor, and politician. It really depends on what playstyle you want to play. That's why I spent so long deciding what role to choose. I think mafia and sk have a much more limited set of viable roles they can choose.

I really hope people are following the plan that was agreed upon.
I was most scared about whoever was #3, but it seems like marvellosity is going to follow it, which is great.

I'll be back later.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 17 2012 02:48 GMT

#629

lol. dat dayvig shot. I actually had him as town too~

We now know what role Mattchew is. I think a real easy way to clear him is if we have a tracker. If we do, we know that he does not have a role ability, so if mafia does shoot, Mattchew would go to the target (I'm pretty sure that's how the mechanics work anyways).
And because of this possibility, it makes it unlikely that Mattchew is scum (unless, of course they overlooked it). Anyways, it would be best if we can do this. Thoughts?

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 17 2012 03:19 GMT

#633

Oh. Didn't read the second part of the role description. Scratch that then.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 17 2012 03:29 GMT

#634

Barundar, what do you think about Mattchew now?

Also, I think it is in the town's best interest for whoever got Janitor to say so. This way, we know who the Janitor is, and if there ever becomes a night where bodies are cleaned up, we would instantly know where the mafia is. On the other hand, that person is also almost confirmed town, or at least has to act in the town's best interest anyways. Since copycat is already used, there should be no fear.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 18 2012 00:38 GMT

#760

I think there is definitely mafia in between risk.nuke, marvellosity, and sentinel. I don't see how there is any benefit to town lying about having the Janitor role at all. I also think we should deal with the Janitor role first.

Qatol: If you thought that Janitor is a really strong role for mafia that it warranted a denial, why is lynching Paqman more ideal?

Paqman: Who do you think is Janitor?

Sentinel: Why are you not voting risk.nuke?

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 18 2012 01:33 GMT

#769

@Toad and Qatol
By the time we figure out who Janitor is, it would be too late, no? (As in Janitor would have already used his role). Additionally, don't you think we would get some information from the way people voted between the 3 (especially since you (Toad) claim that we would find them eventually)?

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 18 2012 04:47 GMT

#788

@Bluelightz As mentioned, one of them is lying about not having the Janitor role. Town cannot use Janitor in any way that would actually benefit town; therefore, only scum would have any reason to keep silent.

@Toad Why did you want to assign Janitor pre-draft then?

On May 18 2012 12:02 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

A janitor is nothing gamebreaking and we WANT the janitor to use the power right now because I am happy to take a janitor-ed lynch d1 if we get a confirmed mafia that way. So no, it's not too late at all, it's too early to lynch into those 3 on d1 for the very reason you said we should lynch them.
We WANT to get more information on them and we WANT to see who's using powers n1 out of those 3.

I also don't get how we get confirmed mafia. Janitor PMs during the night when he wants to clean up bodies. I don't understand why we want the Janitor to use his power at all.

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 18 2012 05:01 GMT

#790

Could you explain what "janitor'ed d1 lynch" means?

Misder

United States1557 Posts

May 18 2012 05:22 GMT

#794

I don't think it's possible for d1 lynch to be "janitored" because in the role description, it says that Janitor needs to PM at night for the following day to be cleaned up. That's why if we find Janitor today, we escape confusion.

Anyways, Qatol brought out a possibility that I did not think of which counters your first point: Sentinel could be scum but gave Janitor to some other mafia member lower in the draft. Plus, I don't see how it confirms Sentinel to be town at all because it could be him having the Janitor role and using it, but pretending that he does not have it.

Your second point will draw out more blues (investigative roles would need to claim, marvellosity and risk would need to claim their presumed roles).

##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel
Along with the logical arguments provided (and technically, strict probability), Sentinel is higher on my scum list. He was compliant with the plan after the draft phase came out (but did not imput before). Although he asked risk to get Janitor, it was already clear that risk wasn't going to get it and doesn't say anything further, which means he was comfortable picking Janitor. This comes into play when you read + Show Spoiler +

On May 15 2012 05:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:

Show nested quote +

Agreed. Personally I'm really comfortable playing as Doc, and if I'm not one of the top five (haven't played a power role in forever so I'm interested in those as well) I might snatch that or jailkeeper up.

. Janitor is not a "power" role for town. Also in that post, he claims we would get a protective role, which was basically asking for scum to shoot him, which wouldn't make sense. "I didn't get Janitor

" rubbed me the wrong way, but that's minor I guess. He also only votes risk after pressure, and doesn't really explain why he does in fact choose to vote instead of FOSing.