EPTJust so you know.
Wheel of Fortune Mini Mafia
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
Just so you know. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 22 2012 07:08 prplhz wrote: [...] SamuelLJackson needs to sign their posts and you need to show that you're actually two people playing for town. You're likely going to be the strongest town player and I expect that to show in your play and I'm gonna complain about any weird stuff from you because, no. Am I the only one that reads this a little bit like he's treating me as a nice townie already (read: a little more "confirmed" than I should be at the start of a game) when he should have no idea about my alignment yet? + Show Spoiler [rnd hilarious stuff] + On April 22 2012 07:27 prplhz wrote: , Toadesstern knows that this game essentially revolves around him. That's a troll, right? I'm going to be around for an hour or something like that, maybe two more hours, it's saturday after all. ---Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 22 2012 20:22 Forumite wrote: Please don´t tell me you are town, and don´t tell me you think I am town, the first I can´t trust, the second only make me a target for scum. Explain, why is MrZentor town? If he acts scum and disrupts the thread, that makes him look scum. I know most scum wouldn´t start the game like he does, because it´s too obvious, but that can´t be a defence of those who actually do. Agree. Why are you calling everyone who's posting town right now? Why do you feel the need to drop the town-bomb so early? You know yourself that telling people your townreads without a reason (a reason to tell people, not the reason why you think so in the first place) is not something that's helping town at all because of what Forumite said. Therefore I'd like to hear the reasoning behind that instead of trying to guess what's going on in VE-land. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 22 2012 21:25 SamuelLJackson wrote: Agree. Why are you calling everyone who's posting town right now? Why do you feel the need to drop the town-bomb so early? You know yourself that telling people your townreads without a reason (a reason to tell people, not the reason why you think so in the first place) is not something that's helping town at all because of what Forumite said. Therefore I'd like to hear the reasoning behind that instead of trying to guess what's going on in VE-land. EBWOP That was Toad posting. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 22 2012 21:53 VisceraEyes wrote: It was mostly me disagreeing with Forumite's case. Zentor seems like a lurky-scum kinda player, and doubt as scum he'd enter the game voting for himself. That's kinda an advanced scum move and (no offense Zentor) not one I see MrZentor making. I could have just said "I don't agree with a MrZentor vote" but the way I said it gets more people to trust me faster...or so I thought.  No, it was just my entry into the game after drinking at my sister's bday party guys, nothing to see here. However, let's try that again with less alcohol in my bloodstream :D @Forumite So it is your opinion that MrZentor, as scum, voted for himself only to "get responses from people" and then, as scum, singled out prplhz? In the name of....what? Furthering his scum agenda? I don't know, I see it more as a townZentor move myself. That's why I disagree. Yeah figured. Still, what was the reason you told people you think he's town. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with forumites case, hell I do as well but I don't run around telling everyone I think he's a townie when there's no need to stop the discussion like that. If he is a reasonable lynch candidate and you think he's town, be my guest and tell everyone you think the guy is town, but now? He's on 2 votes, one of those is his own vote (wtf?). Why not chill a bit, see how he reacts nevertheless and how everyone else is reacting (people appearing with cheap reasoning or whatever) or are you already so sure about your 12 hours into the game read that you do no longer need to read him anymore? I agree with you, I just don't agree with you posting like that when there was no need to step in like that telling people to stop accusing each other just because you think he's town. ---Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 22 2012 22:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Because he did react - by Forumite's estimation he reacted poorly and by my estimation he reacted in the manner I'd expect. In any case, I don't think he's a good vote and won't support it. *shrug* Do I tell you how to play? Oh wait...yeah...I do....... Okay, whatever. I won't do it again. Good enough? and that one reaction is enough to make your read final? I just don't get why you would want to step in here, it's d1 with VERY few things to talk about, even less than usually because there's so few people talking. I just don't understand why you would want to end the discussion in that situation from a town perspective while I can think of 2 different possibilites for a mafia-VE to say something like that. Even if he's town and I'm inclined to believe so there's no harm in people argueing about what he and forumite said so far, at least as long as there's nothing else. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
Anyways, that was another Toad-post. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
The difference here is that I know VE knows that as well. I'm not so sure about you so please stop it. And townreads are really easy to do for mafia. They know who is town (aka not mafia) and who's not so they can 24/7 waltz around, tell people who they think is town and are perfectly right about and don't even have to make up some bullshit while when they're doing cases or scumreads they have to make up some shit because they know it's wrong. So dishing out townreads is a) hurting town (imo) b) not helping town judge you because you could do that as mafia as well ---Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 23 2012 01:35 Radfield wrote: If it makes you feel any better, I don't think you are town Toad  Where's Sandro? Yeah I know. Sad thing WBG is hosting this and not playing himself. He could be your wingman and constantly tell people how unreadable I am, especially after LII :p That's the reason I'm not raging mad but just a little upset about blue so far. Sandro said pregame that he won't have time to post the first day (RL day I guess?) as well when I told him I'm trying to post less hypno-Toad-ish and therefore am going to post less. So I guess he's still not here. On April 23 2012 01:35 Radfield wrote: I don't actually see the benefit to the quick claim. However, I am assuming that the masons are good enough to leave a trail of clues which will point to their partner if they die, yet is impossible to find if they are alive. Since they can talk together, it really shouldn't be that hard. If that's the case, then there is no reason for them to claim, as once they claim they will become instant targets. The longer they stay alive, the higher towns chance of winning is. I guess I just don't see the actual benefit of them claiming. This assumes we have any masons at all. I'm not sure how bugs is generating the mason roles, as a normal C9++ has the option of an Innocent Child(mod confirmed townie), which is not in the OP. For those who don't really know how the setup is generated: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++ Did you read wbg's first C9++? The fast mason claim is incredible strong and frankly it was one of the reasons town won that game without a problem because they had a VERY strong town player who was basicly confirmed town, forcing mafia to deal with that problem as well as the other "confirmed" mason and other people who just looked incredible good themselves. That being said I wouldn't be suprised if wbg tweaked the balance a little bit and is treating mason as a stronger PR than he did in his first game. That's of course just speculation. But yeah I'd still say insta claiming as mason is the way to go for town. Mafia has BIG issues dealing with that because it's really hard to claim something like that themselves and on top of that there's no mafia Masons. The real issue with the insta-claim is that it does give mafia targets but way more than they can deal with early on therefore making it really much easier for town. ---Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
However we really need people to start and get in here. I am doing my best to not be the hypno-Toad that ends up having 25% of thread-posts. However, with so little contribution I am again one of the guys who's posting a little bit more than most people which is just an incredible bad sign for those who aren't posting considering that I have to really hold myself back here... --- Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 23 2012 03:26 Ace wrote: I didn't. I said both of your posts were saying what I would, then went on to clarify. I explicitly stated I'm for Masons claiming Day 2. strongandbig: That is really a lot of what ifs you're going through there. I do agree that a framer would mess things up - if we were trying to confirm the Masons. It's more likely that 2 players claiming Masons are Town. If neither one of them died for 2 days I'm sure we'd know whats up. You don't really need the Cop to investigate them. I'm back \o/ And yeah exactly that. Claiming mason is INCREDIBLE risky for mafia, they'd insta-lose 2 (!) players in a mini game if something goes wrong. That's straight up gg if something happens. Yeah, us talking about how unlikely it is for mafia to claim mason probably makes it a little more tempting for mafia to actually do that but I'd say I'm perfectly happy with mafia giving us 2 free kills even if they are delayed. And I hope noone has to talk about why two VTs fakeclaiming mason shouldn't be an issue at all or a mafia fakeclaiming mason with a townie. If someone ends up fakeclaiming mason as a VT or saying "yeah that guy is mason with me" when he really is not I will punch them in the face. And that's an euphemism for "vote and push your lynch" so no worries there! That's kind of the reason I don't want masons to claim later because if we're 2 days into the game, they claim and get another 2 days on top of that because we're not sure if it's a mafia or a town I'd say that could very well end up being to late. So if someone claims mason something like d3 I am going to completly ignore that. If they claim d1 however they're a high priority target for mafia and mafia can't realy do that themselves d1 because of what I just said. D3 gets tricky because if we only start thinking about lynching one of the masons by d5 mafia might be willing to claim that. That being said. What about talking about something else? Feels like we're wasting d1 just because there MIGHT BE a pair of masons like in the last game which was a complete demolition for mafia the moment the mason claimed d1 and therefore I'd say it's not that unlikely that WBG tweaked the balance a little bit. I still got a very bad feeling about VE. Yeah I know, I have that feeling every game but I still don't understand why town-VE should do what he did earlier on and he's quite silent right now. Town-VE is the kind of guy who is VERY confident about his own skills because of his most recent results in the last dozen of games and because a lot of people said he played very well recently. So I think Town-VE would be in this thread telling people what to do, trying to lead town even with a stacked playerfield like we have. Just look at the first C9++ for example. That oviously makes me think VE is not town this game. Thoughts? ---Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 23 2012 05:33 Ace wrote: Well I didn't read wbg's last game, but s&b has a point Forumite. I've said it many times in the past that a pair of Masons are the most dangerous roles that a Scum team has to deal with in most games. He also alluded to Masons fast claiming Day 1 in the last game and wrecking shit. I'd be suspicious of any player that doesn't even want to talk about going this route also. As for your encryption plan that makes sense S&B but Samuel brings up a good point: They aren't guaranteed to be in the game. Let's not make ourselves do extra work that probably won't pay off. For now the fact that anyone even lazily reading the thread knows that a Mason claim is very likely by Day 2 is good enough. So, you want us to discuss the mason thing but you're not willing to do something like generate a random 16-char-long string because the chances that there are no masons are to high and therefore it's not worth doing to do something that's SO much work? That sounds a little bit weird, doesn't it? Why do we need to talk about the mason thing in the first place if that's what you think? --- Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 23 2012 05:46 Ace wrote: Why would we be generating encrypted strings when both Masons can just claim Day 2? We're doing extra work for nothing. If they aren't in the game then we just move on. If I understood correctly what strongandbig said he is pretty much against masons claiming at all. He doesn't want masons to claim unless the other counterpart of their mason role is dead, therefore giving us less advantages but also less risks because it's only one confirmed townie but it's just impossible for the 2nd guy to be mafia when the first one already flipped town AND mason. My point is that it's not impossible for both masons to be mafia if they claim before one of them dies but it is REALLY unlikely, therefore I don't think we need to be that cautious and I'd like them to claim before one of them dies if we have masons because that doubles the advantages and with every passing day it's more likely for mafia to claim mason because they might think "well it's already d3, if we don't win by d7 [we need 1 or 2 days according to you to judge wether it's mafia or not and 2 more days to get them lynched] we already lost, so whatever let's claim mason". That being said I really don't think there's masons in here because of what I said earlier and would rather talk about scumreads instead. No responses about what I said about VE? | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 23 2012 05:59 Forumite wrote: I don´t have the same experience with masons as you. In the games I´ve played, confirmed townies die soon after getting confirmed. In that light, it might be better to wait until day 3 to claim, and breadcrumb in a foolproof way so that if one mason die before the claim, the other one can confirm himself. During D3, when there are fewer people alive, one confirmed makes a much bigger difference. the thing is that it's 2 confirmed townies. On top of that there might be some guy or some guys who are looking really townish themselves that mafia have to deal with. On top of that there are probably a bunch of townies that mafia wants to get rid of, just look at the playerlist. That's an enormous list of "problems" for mafia, way more than they can deal with. I'd say it's either claim early (d1, I'd be fine with d2 as well) or don't claim at all. As Ace pointed out, without a cop and even with a cop we have issues figuring them out because they're most likely to be framed if mafia has a framer and that's not an unreasonable assumption in a DT-setup at all. So our way to figure out masons is to look at them, probably give them the benefit of the doubt and figure out what's going on with them. As you mentioned, mafia wants to hit that and if they're still alive 2 days after the claim (especially if it's a late claim) it's probably a mafia fakeclaim. So if we have someone claim mason d3 we're screwed big time as town. --- Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
On April 23 2012 06:51 Forumite wrote: I think I see what you mean, giving scum 2 more targets will give them way too many to shoot down with all the veterans here, especially if one or two in the mason pair are newbies who would never normally attract bullets. In that case, why wait until tomorrow? Why not claim now in that case? Why tomorrow? We are most likely one less player tomorrow, maybe 2. 2 confirmed among 12 is not far from 2 confirmed among 14, it´s not enough to single out scum. The way I see it, either we give scum more targets, or we make sure to get as many confirmed town as possible. If the first, then the masons should claim now, if the second, then we wait until day 3 and have the masons and DTs claim all at once. Exactly and that's it for me talking about the mason topic. I mentioned C9++ A LOT, so everyone should know where to look at if you're not sure about the mason topic. I'd really rather have people talk about scumreads. We need to lynch someone. I said I think VE is a nice option. Noone commented on that one. Radfield said he thinks I'm not town with a oneliner and noone commented on that except for blue dropping the town-bomb. Forumite said he thinks zentor looks scummy and noone said anything about that one. That's essentially everything we've got so far if I recall correctly and this mason talk is hurting us if we keep on talking about that. It's giving everyone and their dog a chance to not talk about scumreads at all. I don't think we have masons but if we do I'm sure we talked enough about it and they made their mind clear about that topic themselves, so it's up to them. That being said I'm voting VE because of what I said earlier and going to bed now. You guys really need to start talking about the lynch as well and ignore masons for the time being... They'll do whatever they think is best for town anyways IF we got some. ##vote VisceraEyes --- Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
1) His Town-bomb + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 14:46 VisceraEyes wrote: I think everyone who has posted so far is town. + Show Spoiler + Yes, this is me soft-claiming town. I look forward to hearing from Ace - after his untimely demise in SSM I didn't expect him to be back in a game so quickly. ^^ This is an incredible bad post for 2 reasons. Firstly because I already mentioned dropping the town-bomb like that is not helpful at all. Secondly it's totally useless. There's nothing in there. No explanations, it's along the lines "sup guyses, I think everyone is town, that's all". There is no use for that post unless he is mafia trying to get towncred by saying "hey guys, I told you they're all town" after the flip. It is literally nothing but VE trying to end the non-existing discussion. If it would be usual spam or trolling with no content I'd have no problem with that but that is a bunch of nothing with an agenda behind it and imo stopping the discussion like that, especially with so little else going on is a mafia agenda. And I am pretty sure Town-VE would have known that that post is not good making me think it's mafia-VE who screwed up while trying to get town-cred for calling guys town who will end up being town. 2) Whatever you want to call it + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 22:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Because he did react - by Forumite's estimation he reacted poorly and by my estimation he reacted in the manner I'd expect. In any case, I don't think he's a good vote and won't support it. *shrug* Do I tell you how to play? Oh wait...yeah...I do....... Okay, whatever. I won't do it again. Good enough? As mentioned I don't see a reason why a townie should do such a thing. He said he said he thinks zentor is town because he basicly wanted to stop forumite accusing / tunneling him (yeah he never said that, but that's what it comes down to). Why would a townie want to stop seeing reactiongs after only one "clash" of the two guys? Is his read already so sure that he no longer needs more info / reactions? Let's compare the situation with what I did 30 mins in the game: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 07:37 SamuelLJackson wrote: Hey forumite, what's your opinion on: Am I the only one that reads this a little bit like he's treating me as a nice townie already (read: a little more "confirmed" than I should be at the start of a game) when he should have no idea about my alignment yet? + Show Spoiler [rnd hilarious stuff] + On April 22 2012 07:27 prplhz wrote: , Toadesstern knows that this game essentially revolves around him. That's a troll, right? I'm going to be around for an hour or something like that, maybe two more hours, it's saturday after all. ---Toad That's me accusing prpl. I knew that the accusation is weak and probably means nothing, I thought about not posting that at all because he probably meant something else. I still ended up posting it because I thought, whatever, it's d1 maybe I'm getting a nice reaction and I did get a reaction from prpl. However I did not end up running around telling people "IT'S FINE, I'VE GOT THIS 1 REACTION, THERE'S NO WAY HE IS MAFIA" because it's just one reaction. Prpls reaction to me looked fine but frankly he's still a null read to me because that could very well be faked, me being wrong or whatever. Why is VE not thinking about those possibilites and why is he fine with stopping the discussion after such a short amount of time without a reason (aka the guy was not about to be lynched). I'd say he doesn't need to try and figure out who's mafia and who's town. 3) His meta He tends to try and lead town. His post count can not be a reason to think of him as mafia or town because of LII. Most people saw that game and most people still remember how disruptive VE and I used to be that game. That being said posting less and trying to be not disruptive at all seems like the way to go for mafia. He could easily point at LII and tell people "see people? That's how I play mafia! This time I am posting way less and I'm not disruptive/hurting town at all!". However, as mentioned that can not be a reason for judging his alignment, because frankly I hope he'd do the same as town as well and try to not be as disruptive :p So all we've got on meta is his style of playing the game and I think he is not playing his usual town style at all. As town he is trying to lead town lately. He has a lot of confidence due to his last dozen of games and people told him he's very good nowadays. I came into this game thinking "well VE will probably use this game as another platform, another piece in the puzzle to finally show everyone that he's not just one of the big names but also able to be one of the really big names. He's probably going to try and lead town hardcore to show people that he's that kind of player no matter of players who singed up". That's what I anticipated VE doing. I don't see that happening and even worse, I don't see him caring at all, not even slightly trying to show that he's an important player in this game. Imo that's not Town-VE but instead a mafia-VE trying to put on a farce, trying to look like he's modest or whatever. Therefore I voted VE and I am going to university right now. So I'll be back in something like 2 or 2,5 hours to answer questions I guess. --- Toad | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
-sandroba | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
Reasons other than him possibly being scum? And you want to lynch him for those reasons? How about you stop telling me what you are not saying and actually tell me wtf you ARE saying. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
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