EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Wmljq.png) | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
So ... you calling me scum or what? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
And yes I think VisceraEyes is scum. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I'm here so you can ask me what you want to. I'll be building my case against VE in the meantime. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Paqman has responded and has generally posted in a way I would expect a newbie town to. I'm meh on BH's case on marvelosity. I don't like the timing, and marv has responded in a way that I wouldn't consider him a good D1 lynch. I am an advocate for gonzaw's plan. My initial dislike of the vig claim idea was because the mafia would get the names of the vigs. However, after rereading I realized that if they do shoot the vigs, then they would flip at night therefore confirming that they are indeed vigs, which is great as that is what the plan is intended to do - give town a powerful resource which we can discuss and eliminate confusion due to the death miller mechanic. I'd suggest the vigs just shoot all the lurkers, as 1) it is an incredibly bad move for mafia to fake claim and sacrifice 1 KP to help town by shooting a lurker to gain town cred (so I doubt they would do that), and 2) we avoid potential mistakes when we direct vig shots into active players (I think the benefit of trading any vigs we have to prevent lurking is pretty good). Ultimately, as stated by others, this game is still a game of mafia. As in, we win with analysis and logic and etc. Blues and confirmed townies are an aid, not a crutch. I think it is a good move for town to have control for vigs, discourage lurking and avoid potential fake claims by mafia. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan.. Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points. Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points. Second item: VE's "scumslip" catch If you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal. Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarification The post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed. More prodding and VE gives this "explanation" On April 21 2012 11:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Because the whole plan hinges on JKs following the plan and I wouldn't in my LIFE follow a mass claim plan D1 giving scum information if I were a JK. To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is On April 21 2012 11:49 Ottoxlol wrote: I still find it amazing that VE missed the point about JKs and still not responding directly why wouldn't the JKs not follow the plan. So we'll know who are the vigs, and later scum wont be able to fakeclaim. We already discussed why wouldn't scum fake-claim. Scum doesn't want to kill real vigs first, so the information we are giving up is negligible Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes) On April 21 2012 15:50 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm done talking about claiming plans. Anyone who has a role is free to speculate however they choose. You're giving scum all the information they need. I've made my opinion known. I feel like it town wants to adopt this ridiculous claim plan, then JKs and Trackers are going to be forced to participate. I wouldn't advocate participating in the plan in the first place. Anyway, my vote on gonzaw stands - especially now that he thinks I'm scum because I disagree with a mass-claim plan. Unbelievable. Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic? Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point). Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. (here and here) On April 22 2012 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: gonzaw's response to my vote was terribad. Everyone should be voting for him or explaining why he's town plz. For anyone who's all like "Hey I don't think scum would stick their neck out with some plan", I say only "OH REALLY FOOL? You don't think scum would be willing to trade a modicum of suspicion on them for the identities of all of our vigs?" He's pushing a scum agenda in trying to fish for claims, and I for one will NOT ALLOW IT! Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan. Conclusion: VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Also, don't forget that this is a plurality lynch. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Marv's posting is fine and probably would be better if he didn't need to spend so much time defending himself against BJ. BM is lurking, but should not be considered unless you think VE and marv isn't scum, as the case on him is minimal. Risen seems to be the alternate for people who don't want to lynch VE because he claimed JK. They should reconsider their reasoning of keeping VE alive. We can look into Risen tomorrow. Votes should start consolidating, and discussion should be centered around this. Anything else is derailing town's current focus, which is to agree and lynch the scummiest candidate. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On April 23 2012 07:45 MidnightGladius wrote: Personally, I think lynching marv would make a terrible mislynch at this point. I still think that johnny is the best scum candidate at the moment, and that it's not too late to make it happen. His defense against my allegation of sheeping was to acknowledge that he was sheeping and claim that he's a bad player. How in the world are we just letting that slide? I would also be okay with lynching VE based on his complete unwillingness to continue playing, even though I'm hesitant to lynch a D1 jailkeeper claim, ridiculously scummy play or not. My current read on Risen is null, though it's hard to tell, because the tone of his posts is really starting to get on my nerves. On April 23 2012 08:36 MidnightGladius wrote: Why do we even think BM is scum? A scum player would never blatantly disregard the game like this. So here are MG's thoughts on the D1 main lynch candidates. He is only willing to vote johnny, and would be ok lynching VE (but letting everyone know he would be hesitant). So out of the 4 people, he says nope these guys aren't scummy I'd rather lynch johnny. On April 23 2012 09:19 MidnightGladius wrote: ..... I can't believe we just let that happen. slOosh marvellosity Bill Murray Ottoxlol VE layabout Sentinel Zephirdd In order of voting time. I wonder how many scum were on VE's lynch? Tomorrow, we're taking a long hard look at Zephirdd. Then we get this post. VE just flipped blue. He subtly blames people for the VE mislynch, when he himself put in no effort to get people off, and actually would have supported the VE lynch himself. So what does MG think we should do next? He invites everyone to look into the VE voter list, the guy he thought was the scummiest out of the four D1 lynch candidates. There are some serious logical jumps made here. Either the candidates were all town, in which the scum would have no incentive to push the votes onto VE, or at least one of the candidates are scum and scum piled onto VE to avoid getting lynched, in which case he should be looking into who is that scum candidate. However, he suggests that we all look into the VE mislynch voter list. Could scum be hiding there? Certainly. Is it logically reasonable to start looking there? No. People, read MG's filter and tell me your thoughts. I don't like how VE played but he found something off in MG. So have I. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On April 23 2012 12:44 MidnightGladius wrote: I found VE's play to be ridiculously scummy, but I was hesitant to vote for a claiming jailkeeper. You clearly twisted my words and intentions here. Clearly twisted? Could you explain then how you switched from such a neutral stance on VE to finding him ridiculously scummy, even though discussion was not focused on VE between this post and the one you quoted? You say "the only problem is" but it is clear that you have quite the list of concerns. On April 23 2012 02:24 MidnightGladius wrote: VE's claim makes absolutely no sense at all to me, and I can't see how it, or his subsequent behavior, benefits the town at all. Other players have made their cases well enough, so I'm not going to rehash their points, but VE is one of the more scummy players here right now. The only problem is, unlike LI, this claim makes no sense, doesn't advance a scum agenda, and isn't being supported by other mafia members. No one is even trying to defend him, except johnnywup, and I didn't see a scum plan out of their previous interactions. Would scum bus VE this early? It just doesn't make nearly as much sense as his actions in LI. On April 23 2012 12:44 MidnightGladius wrote: You missed my point here. Why do you think it is good for everyone to see?I provided the list, because the mods in the voting thread hadn't posted a list of voters chronologically, and I thought it would for good for everyone to see. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On April 24 2012 11:38 gonzaw wrote: Just because I'm bored, I'll tell you guys what that program I made in LI tells us: At night, in a 15v4 situation, town loses in 6 cycle/s with 3 misslynch/es Yeah, we have a better D2 than in LI  Mafia have 2KP. Won't be posting till day hits. Speaking in this "twilight" time doesn't sit right with me (personal opinion). | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
hehe, I am somewhat happy that my D1 reads aren't totally off. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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