EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
| ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
| ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
| ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
| ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
So now that I think about it, I don't really like that idea at all lol. Town can't keep assuming things this game. It'll make an ass out of u and me. We don't know how many of what roles there are and continuous speculation isn't going to help at all. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 11:16 MidnightGladius wrote: If we all agree for all vigs to claim, then this is what happens: 0 vig claims: There are no vigs. Simple enough. 1 vig claim: There is either 1 vig, or a scum faking the claim. We have the vig claim their shot. If the shot hits, and we have a tracker, we can keep tracking the vig claim, meaning that a fakeclaiming scum would never be able to shoot until the tracker died. If the shot doesn't hit, and the jailkeepers know not to jail the vig's target, then we have confirmed scum between the vig and the target. In this case, as long as the mafia team doesn't know the real role distribution, they can't risk fake-claiming. This is good for town. 2-3 vig claims: There are 0-3 vigs, and either no scum faking claims, or some number of them. Each vig claims and shoots a different target during Night 1. Day 2, we sort them into two groups based on whether or not their shots hit. If the shot hit, we set it aside, and we focus on the group whose shots didn't hit. For each such vig, either that player has no KP (therefore GF), or their target was a GF. We lynch both of them. Either they flip GF and townie (case 1) or GF and GF (case 2). In case 1, great, we can do normal analysis on the flipped GF. In case 2, we have to be a bit more careful, but it's still a 1-for-1 trade. If all of the shots hit, then we know that there are no actual GFs fakeclaiming, and any lynched non-vig-claim flipping GF is an actual GF. 4+ vig claims: There are 0-3 vigs, and some number of scum faking claims. We use the same plan as in the above case. However, if all of the shots hit, then in addition to there being no GFs in the group, we know that there are one or more goons among the group, which is awesome. This is all assuming, of course, that any JKs follow the plan by not jailing any of the vig claims or their targets, but I think that that should be doable. Additionally, scum have no incentive to shoot vig claims, because a night-killed "Godfather" can only be a vig, making it a lot easier for us to figure out lynched players flipping GF. Gonzaw's points about preventing chaos during later vig claims/GF lynches is also quite valid. VE, I don't see what you don't like about the plan. There's only 3 blue roles. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
| ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
| ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 11:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Paq he's talking about if there are more than 3 CLAIMS. If there are more than three CLAIMS then there's guaranteed to be a liar in the bunch, which is what he's saying. Now go be a good lad and vote for gonzaw.  I'm not convinced that he made a scum slip. When he said "our" he could have been referring to whoever agreed with his points. I want to see what Gonzaw has to say about your accusation. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
some of gonzaw's points however are pretty valid (no late-game chaos with vig claiming before lynch, etc etc). Either way, I can't see a vig following either one of y'alls policies. He claims, town lynches him and nothing is gained. He claims, chance of mafia taking him out or keeps him alive, either way there's chaos. I suggest that our vigilante (if we have one) doesn't claim at all. If he's about to be lynched then he needs to defend himself as a normal townie because claiming vig is going to create a shitstorm for us, which gives scum the upper hand. If he's going to use his kp one someone, he doesn't need to claim before or after the kill. It's going to create too much confusion and WIFOM and finger-pointing and shit. So I think that vigilantes should not make any claims this game. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 13:10 Mattchew wrote: To elaborate This reads to me as "i don't want to take a side, i want to look like i like both sides to the argument" also, lets change subject (but wait, read on) apology post and leave to get away from being wrong. Interestingly filmsy opinion again, to me this just feels like he has more information than I do I know how much we love the 3rd and 4th person to jump on an opinion and now that he knows people will agree with him, he can be firm in his assertion lolwut? You can disregard my first post because I do end up choosing a side. I don't like either one of their policies. Killing our only KP roles sounds blatantly stupid, but so does forcing them to claim. Trying to control them and tell them where to aim is going to be chaos. What if it's a GF that claims vigi? We wont know if he's lying or not because his target could coincidentally be jailed. Or what if the whole mafia team claims along with the vigis? It'll be a shitstorm. Yes killing our KP would stop that scenario from happening but then we'd have to rely on lynches and our trackers (if we have any). And what if the trackers suck at persuading people? It's a bunch of what-if's and WIFOM that is getting us NO WHERE. So I'm pleading to all our vigi's, if they want to be pro-town then DONT CLAIM. Your first three quotes are empty one-liners, they don't prove anything and I don't see at all how they make you FoS me. I know how much we love the 3rd and 4th person to jump on an opinion and now that he knows people will agree with him, he can be firm in his assertion Nobody has agreed with me on MY opinion, so where is that conclusion coming from?? | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
| ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 12:23 gonzaw wrote: WARNING, Big Post coming up, be sure to read all of it, or at least the end and the part between the red asterisks: To VE: Scum already have the info of who is town and who is scum. Like someone else already stated, if we lynch a vig, he will flip GF, and we won't know if he's vig or GF, but scum will. Also, you missed this post of mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=10#187 This plan isn't about "giving scum information", it's about: -Coordinating vig shots at night (if there are in this game) -Avoiding the chaos regarding the "Flips GF" Miller mechanic from vigs -Force scum to take action and claim or not. -Based on the logical statements concluded from actions and claims, use it to aid scumhunting and determining the alignment of players and their actions. I don't understand that one part. How does this force scum to claim? Why would they lie in the first place and claim vigi? It seems smarter to just act as a normal town and avoid the attention that the vigi would get. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 13:30 johnnywup wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 10:18 PaqMan wrote: So what's the plan? just stupid question without content when theres already stuff being discussed, isnt paying attention to where threads going On April 21 2012 10:49 PaqMan wrote: I like Gonzaw's idea of the vig's claiming. Only problem with that is that Scum will have a list of vig's and won't have to do any sniping.. So now that I think about it, I don't really like that idea at all lol. Town can't keep assuming things this game. It'll make an ass out of u and me. We don't know how many of what roles there are and continuous speculation isn't going to help at all. Agrees, disagrees, then says it's not even worth talking about + Show Spoiler + doesn't even read the posts he's talking about, (RTFT) On April 21 2012 11:43 PaqMan wrote: Woops, I'm sorry! Scarface is on tv and I'm trying to multitask. It isn't working out obviously, so I'll be back in about three hours. excuses to stay away from thread, scarface is less than 3 hours so trying to get more time away than the movie provides On April 21 2012 11:49 PaqMan wrote: I'm not convinced that he made a scum slip. When he said "our" he could have been referring to whoever agreed with his points. I want to see what Gonzaw has to say about your accusation. unwilling to take a stance despite responding to it, basically just says "wait for gonzaw to respond to it" On April 21 2012 12:01 PaqMan wrote: But I do agree with you VE. Giving scum any more info puts them in an even greater advantage over us. A mass vig claim would be the same as handing them a hit list. some of gonzaw's points however are pretty valid (no late-game chaos with vig claiming before lynch, etc etc). Either way, I can't see a vig following either one of y'alls policies. He claims, town lynches him and nothing is gained. He claims, chance of mafia taking him out or keeps him alive, either way there's chaos. I suggest that our vigilante (if we have one) doesn't claim at all. If he's about to be lynched then he needs to defend himself as a normal townie because claiming vig is going to create a shitstorm for us, which gives scum the upper hand. If he's going to use his kp one someone, he doesn't need to claim before or after the kill. It's going to create too much confusion and WIFOM and finger-pointing and shit. So I think that vigilantes should not make any claims this game. like you said, only argues for something that has already gained traction. individually all these aren't that scummy but together it looks super scummy Already gained traction? As far as I can tell there's only two sides here. VE's kill-all-vigi's and Gonzaw's all-vigi's-claim. Neither of those options are going to help Town. I'm the only one pushing for vigi's to stay silent. I've already said that Scarface was on and I was trying to multitask until I shut off the TV. There's nothing else I can say about the posts besides being poorly written. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 13:34 gonzaw wrote: IMPORTANT NOTICE: I've already explained all about the plan. All these "criticisms" by johnny, Paqman, etc have already been addressed, so if you want to check them out please just reread my filter. For instance, this: It's already been addressed properly, so PaqMan please reread my posts. So I'd like not to waste time arguing about it ad nauseaum while going nowhere. So vigs, please reread it, analyse it, and make the right choice by claiming right now, or at least way before the lynch (specially if you are a lynch candidate). Or how about the vigi's DONT CLAIM AT ALL so that scum can't call vigi right before they get lynched and throw everything into disorder? Plus save the vig from possibly getting killed N1. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
Seeing as you're the most outspoken in this thread and you're really pushing your agenda I think your green. After a quick read through Johnny's posts I get a green feel from him. So far Mattchew has been lurking besides his FoS on me. I want to see him post more tomorrow. I'm too tired to make a posts that contributes so I'm going to bed now. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 11:39 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Just wondering, what's the chance gonzaw's not mafia but just making an extremely retarded point? At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues. He's apparently not aware of the role powers. JK's also roleblock and GF's can't kill. Plus it's weird that that's his only post so far. I don't like it. Zepphird already told us he'd be back in a few hours so I look forward to seeing what he has to say. Mattchew's only real contribution is his FoS on me. The weird thing is that he calls me out on not choosing a side after I clearly have, but avoids the whole topic of discussion altogether. Very hypocritical. The next weird thing is how he hands over his FoS to Johnny and immediately leaves the discussion. Mattchew looks the scummiest to me. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
I think he'd be a good candidate for a vigi shot. I'm voting for mattchew. Dude's scummy as hell. Also, On April 21 2012 10:15 Bill Murray wrote: We're not going to be able to outguess the mod based upon the numbers we sent in That's his only post since the game has started. He'd be a good vigi shot as well. ##Vote: Mattchew | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 23:17 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm Ok, here is my thought on the matter. Revealing the vig roles is a bad idea in my mind. This is because of the possible hits of vig's. We don't know how exciting this game is going to be; we very well could have bored townies due to the size of the game. If we have vig's having to aim at lurkers, as a town we gain no info as the vig could have made an honest mistake. Also what if the mafia choose to circumvent the situation and not fake-claim. The Mafia kills before the Millers we would have wasted our two shots. There is really no way for a vig to get a shot off and figure out the alignment of the player in question unless we target them on the lynch. What are your thoughts on the current events? Do you think VE is right to call out Gonzaw as scum? What do you think about Mattchew and Marvellosity? What about me?? You're bringing up old discussion. Whoever the vig's are, they're going to decide for themselves whether or not to claim regardless of what we say. | ||
|
PaqMan
United States1475 Posts
On April 21 2012 09:24 Mattchew wrote: what about roleblockers laya? Okay, a question regarding laya's plans.. Where's the discussion on it? Do you think he's right, wrong, crazy? You just asked him a question but you don't follow up on it. You don't voice your opinion on the discussion or anything. You chip in a quick question and disappear.. You're actively lurking, making it look like your participating in discussion, but keeping away from attention and avoiding choosing a side and stating an opinion. On April 21 2012 13:03 Mattchew wrote: Yo anyone else reading paqman's posts... cause you guys should... scummy as fuck Scummy as fuck how? + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 13:10 Mattchew wrote: To elaborate This reads to me as "i don't want to take a side, i want to look like i like both sides to the argument" also, lets change subject (but wait, read on) apology post and leave to get away from being wrong. Interestingly filmsy opinion again, to me this just feels like he has more information than I do I know how much we love the 3rd and 4th person to jump on an opinion and now that he knows people will agree with him, he can be firm in his assertion 1 & 2) there's nothing much I can say about that first post other than the fact that I was watching Tony kill his ex boss. I tried multitasking but I couldn't keep up with the thread while watching TV. Don't believe me? Well there's nothing else I can say. It was pretty apparent how little attention I was giving the thread during the first few hours. 3) I don't see how I had a flimsy opinion. I clearly stated that I didn't think Gonzaw made a scumslip, and I wanted to see his explanation for saying "our". 4) I'm not sure what you meant by this? I was making my stance on the subject at hand. Besides the FoS that I quoted above Mattchew hasn't contributed jack to the thread. He's the scummiest so far and unless he starts improving then my vote stays on him. | ||
| ||
