EPTI am in Sum of All Fears Mafia, but because I'm on Spring Break, I'll have plenty of time for this also.
Death Factory Mafia 2
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
I am in Sum of All Fears Mafia, but because I'm on Spring Break, I'll have plenty of time for this also. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On April 01 2012 13:44 Mattchew wrote: also, we should pop palmar to the blue item and then pull him back to safety. with syllogism and VE here it shouldn't be too hard to tell if he is a good toy or bad. bedtime gn If we do that, we need to make sure it's really well planned out. We need to know who is going to vote for Palmar, so two people don't accidentally vote at the same time and push him over the edge. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
1. Pushing Palmar to get the item is extremely risky. If we use scum to push him up there, they will have an excuse not to vote. If we use towns to push him to the item, the scum will have a proportionally higher votecount to the rest of town. Since we don't know much about who is scum and who isn't, except for that really weird dt check, we would probably have a mix of scum and town. Basically, I think we push Palmar to the item, we should go for a no lynch and instead vote on how the item will be used, or we could push Palmar with some votes, have all people do unofficial votes on who to kill, and force all people with remaining official votes to vote for that person. I will underline things worse than the lynch, italicize things just as good as the lynch, and bold things better than the lynch. This is assuming we vote on how it's used. A 1 shot medic kit - It can not be used on your self. It works for the following night and day cycle. A 1 shot gun - Can be used that same day or the following night. A magnifying glass = Reveals the alignment of 1 player to you. A Teleportation Device - Instantly swap positions with any player on the queue for that day only. A Refresher Orb that renews all PoPs for everyone and special abilities for the day phase. An Etch-A-Sketch that allows you target a player and draw them, thereby granting yourself a copy of their powers + your own. Mafia players can not copy powers from their allies. So we have a 50% chance of getting something worse than the lynch, 16.7% same, and 33.3% chance of better. 2. Random PoPing to Coordinated Poping. If we all push the person who we think is scummiest and pull the person who we think it most innocent, we will get good reads on each other, but the lynch might not be successful. If we have a "town leader" and coordinate our pushes on to one person, we won't get good reads on each other, but we will have a successful lynch. Right now I'd rather go for the random Poping, because I just died in a game in which Coordinated Poping lead to failure. On April 01 2012 20:52 Dirkzor wrote: Weird claim by BM. Believing it would make myself or Zentor scum i guess? So lets kill zentor? =) I don't understand why you would use your power now when you could have used it later to give so much more information. I don't think we should push anyone to the item and back. It could be worthless and as people have already said it removes reponsibility from the people doing the pushing/pulling. I find it odd that palmar wants to go for the item. Prplhz: How did you come the conclusion that Snarfs was in anyway confirmed town?!?! Mod confirmed makes even less sense then you just calling him confirmed town?! If you look at the starting positions and his claim, you'll see that he moved past snarf and VE and into the empty space. That's three moves. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
Each person unofficially voting for somebody would be decided by themselves, so we can get a good read on each person. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On April 02 2012 01:05 Dirkzor wrote: You are going to make this a long game if all your posts are this hard to understand. Okay, let me try to explain this one more time. 1. If we want an innocent person to try to get the item, which I think is a bad idea now, but it might be a good idea later, then we need to make it so that mafia don't have a larger vote count proportionally to the town, because town used half of its votes to get the innocent person to the item and back. 2. To achieve this goal, we should have each person do an "unofficial PoP". This would allow us to get a good read on each person, and it would allow the town to have all of its votes; it would also force any mafia who helped get the innocent person to the item to back to give their reads. Then we would have all the people, who still have their PoPs, officially vote for the person we unofficially decided to kill. 3. I think this would be the best way to have an innocent person get the item and for us to still have the lynch. I hope I articulated this better than last time. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
It's rash, and it forces others to clean up your mess. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
I'm sorry I couldn't get on yesterday; a bunch of crazy IRL stuff came up. -.- Right now, I'm way behind in the reading, but once I'm done reading, I'll post my thoughts. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
The first half of the day went pretty well. We discussed how we should vote, if Palmar should get the item, and a few suspicions. It started to fall apart when some people started pulling Palmar to the item before we had decided if that was a good idea. The second day was chaos. There were tons of roleclaims. People wasted their PoPs. Risk.nuke said at least one of sbrubbles, syllogism, and Cephiro was scum. Palmar got stuck at the top. The town got together and saved Palmar at the cost some PoPs. They tried to lynch the three people risk.nuke had said, but because they couldn't decide on who to kill, it was a no lynch. Finally, mafia got VE into the redzone. Now the mafia have another kill, and we don't have much information. We need to decide on what people we're going to kill before we start pushing them, so no PoPs get wasted. In fact, I don't want to see any PoPs on the first half of the day unless you're sure you won't be able to be there during the second half of the day, or we agreed to use some PoPs to get the item or to confirm a role claim. A PoP is best used near the end of the day, because it's when you have to most information. I probably sound like a huge hypocrite saying this when I didn't use my PoPs yesterday, but I had planned on being able to get on the computer yesterday, and the events that arose were unforeseeable. Of cephiro, syllogism, and sbrubbles, cephiro seems the most innocent. He has been extremely active and has been very cooperative. His overreaction to the idea of Palmar getting the item is a little suspicious. Sbrubbles started by lurking, but recently he has been active and made some good posts. Syllogism is the scummiest. He threw away his vote and spent several pages bickering with WBG. Right now I'm a little suspicious of Tobon; I'll probably post a case on him when I've had more time to digest the information. On April 04 2012 08:09 Acrofales wrote: EBWOP: MrZentor is back. Hope more activity means we can expect a clarification on why you didn't PoP. In case you missed my other post or the beginning of this post, I had a bunch of crazy stuff come up, so I didn't have access to a computer to PoP. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
##push Cephiro Also, we should kill BL for obvious reasons. ##pull Bluelightz | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On April 01 2012 13:42 Tobon wrote: Hiya, I too, am a good toy. How do we want to do this? There was an attempt at using a voting system in Death Factory 1 in order to help coordinate the pushes/pulls, but it fell by the wayside pretty quickly as toys started exploring using their powers. Can we start with a couple easy ground rules, like PoPing someone off the ends of the queue or into the fire zone is extremely anti-town without a majority in favor? He said this after WBG had claimed that he was a good toy with his first post. While this seems like something WBG would do, Tobon following his trend shows that he is afraid of doing something that differs from the norm. Also, it shows that he may already feel some guilt as scum. On April 02 2012 13:52 Tobon wrote: Already explained that I wasn't suggesting it, I was bringing it up to start discussion. In the same sentence that I "proposed" it, I also said that it failed to go anywhere. Just overly wordy on my part. The important point is that Palmar very likely has the entire queue flip once-per-game power. Yeah, so? I'd shrug and chalk this up to pressure except for the push. The push was completely wasteful. There's no feeling I've noticed on anyone else's part that I might be scum, so why would you throw away your push with more than 24 hours to go? Shouldn't you be trying to build a case or convince other people, while seeing what other people do as well, and then use your PoPs more productively nearer the deadline? As it is, this really comes across as an excuse to use up your push so you won't be responsible for going against majority town's choice when it comes. FoS: Nemesis. Tobon says he was just bringing up the idea of a secondary voting system to generate discussion but thought it was a bad idea. Why would you bring up an idea that you thought was bad? There are a ton of bad ideas out there and discussing something that you know is a bad idea is just a huge waste of time. On April 02 2012 14:23 Tobon wrote: BTW, at present I agree with VE's read and I'm fine with pushing Blue into the fire. I'd also be fine at this point with burning our lurkers. I'd just rather save my PoPs for closer to the end of day to see what more happens. I'm also provisionally believing BM, which means he, VE and Snarfs are provisionally town. I like Acrofales's filter so far, Cephiro's too, although I wish there was more of it. Null reads on others. More talk from more people needed. Come on good toys, more activity! He brings up another horrible idea, except this time he thinks it's a good idea. They already had several good suspects at that time, such as BL, so why would you spend your PoPs on killing lurkers? Killing lurkers should only be an option when you run out of suspects or when the lurker's few posts seem scummy. On April 04 2012 02:45 Tobon wrote: Um... what? If one of them dies and flips scum, we're that much closer to winning this thing. The point of the game, remember? (Total WIFOM time, but this post makes me doubt risk's claim for the first time. It's really dumb. It makes me wonder why the red light that we saw is a different one than the one in DFM1. Much less cop-esque. Much more evil-looking.) However: I think both Sburbbles and Syllo are scummy enough that I'd be perfectly happy with pulling off whichever one of the two ends up closest to the bottom of the queue when our placement is randomized at the beginning of day 2. He also doubts risk's claim. There is really no reason to doubt risk, because there hasn't been any information that goes against him or anything he claimed. It seems like Tobon is trying to instill doubt over risk's claim in order to save his scum buddy(s). On April 04 2012 13:38 Tobon wrote: Now, that having been said: Assuming that your power is some sort of swapping ability, so you end up safe and someone else ends up in the fire zone, doesn't it require the same number (well, similar number, since we don't know actual positions) of PoPs to get you there as it would require to get the presumed scum there? So is the advantage only that you get the item as well? Or is there something more clever going on here? And I suppose feel free not to answer if it reveals too much, I just want to know if we could fry scum with the same PoPs and save your power for a day when you could see what you were doing... He pushes Cephiro to reveal more about his role, which I don't think is necessary, because currently Cephiro seems like the most townie person, so we should trust him. All of these things make me suspect that Tobon is scum. On April 05 2012 07:30 wherebugsgo wrote: This is a great post by Zentor that does a whole lot of absolutely nothing. I agree that Zentor looks pretty bad and we should consider killing him as well. I disagree. It shows that I feel town should be more organized, how we should organize our PoPs, my stance on the risk detective thing, an explanation for my absence, one of my suspects, and a promise for a case on him. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On April 05 2012 09:05 Tobon wrote: "I am a good toy" is a scum tell? Mr.Zentor is one of the lurkers we should burn, yes. Risk.nuke (what little filter we have from him) is acting dumb. That makes me question my assumptions, yes. I explicitly tell Cephiro not to claim, I just wonder (as several of us have) whether it'd just be easier / more efficient to push scum directly. I'm not the only one who has been uncomfortable supporting a plan that I know no details of. It's too late for that now that he has gotten all the pushes, though - I'm ready to push him further (if necessary) as soon as we get updated. I stand behind all those quoted bits, and I think they are all obviously towny. Defending yourself before you're attacked and blindly following other people is a scum tell. Him not posting much isn't much of a reason to doubt him. You wanted more information on Cephiro; I know you didn't want him to all or claim(at least you said you didn't) You don't need to know the details of the plain if you trust Cephiro is town. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On April 05 2012 09:50 Tobon wrote: Isn't it interesting that MrZentor had plenty of time to write a long ramble-y nothing post (as wbg commented) and also enough time to troll through my filter to find me "feeling guilty" 18 freaking minutes into the start of the game, but didn't have enough time to read through the current thread and find all the instructions NOT to continue pushing Cephiro? Who is now frozen in possible danger? My push on him didn't even count, retard. You can act like scum 18 minutes into the game. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On April 05 2012 09:57 Cephiro wrote: You could not have known that it didn't count unless you were scum. So why are you trying to back yourself up with that claim? I thought it counted at the time, but I was pmed by the host that it didn't. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
##Push Syllogism | ||
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