EPTSurprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
This is the first full game I've played. I replaced into Election Mafia as scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=52329 And TL Mafia L as vanilla town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=52329 Feel free to check out my meta. I don't know a good way of starting discussion on day 1, so here's some obligatory lurker-lynch stuff. I hate lurkers. Don't be a lurker. Other than the point that lurking is thoroughly anti-town, why bother playing the game if you're not going to post? Do I want to lynch lurkers on day 1? At a gut level, absolutely. It's not necessarily optimal though. If we have someone who's both active and scummy, lynching them is a better choice. However, that's much more likely if we don't let people lurk, so it's important to maintain a real threat. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
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jaj22
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@Steveling: I see you lynched Palmar on your first day. Not the greatest start to a mafia career. Fortunately we don't have any awesome scumhunting veterans in this game. Or mayors. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
Ok, I'm going to explain why you're acquiring suspicion, just in case you haven't figured it. Calling someone out is almost universally a pro-town action. Therefore your accusation is baseless. If you're town, please post some better-justified opinions as soon as possible. If you're scum, carry on as you are. Gumshoe: I'd dismiss Gumshoe as newbie-with-a-plan except for these points: 1. There was a rush of unclaimed mafia votes immediately after he posted, suggesting possible synchronised collusion. 2. He didn't vote town himself, at least not within 20 minutes of posting. Considering the wording of the post, that's stunningly hypocritical. On the other hand he's very active, so if he's scum he'll probably dig himself a deeper hole soon enough. EchelonTee vs SlOosh: Nothing too surprising here. EchelonTee posting like he just solo'd a game as scum (re: Normal Mini Mafia), SlOosh still a bit prone to confirmation bias. They're both looking ok to me so far. Zelblade: Read your own post, then follow your own advice. This game takes what, 10 minutes to read so far? Accuse someone. Anyone. We're not looking for 50 line cases here. This goes for Trackd00r too, although this is his first game so I'm going to be nicer to him. Steveling: Ok, it's partly my fault that you've made four posts with zero suspicions, but this cannot go on  trackd00r So you've been keeping an eye on the players from Newbie Mini III. What do you think of them so far? | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
If you really are town, you're lucky you didn't get bandwagoned within the first few hours of the game. While you're here, what do you think of MidnightGladius? | ||
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jaj22
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jaj22
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On February 18 2012 01:22 blae000 wrote: Either way, to tell who is lying or not from a click in the poll isnt the best way to go. I'm not sure you're reading this properly. After being caught out, Gumshoe has admitted to substantial dishonesty through his early posts, including one that he doublespaced for EchelonTee. If what you're looking for is liars, we have a confirmed one already. The only reason I haven't voted him is that players who make this sort of ridiculous and dishonest plan in newbie games have a nasty habit of flipping town. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
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jaj22
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jaj22
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On February 18 2012 06:14 Steveling wrote: Well, I thought we were 4 hours from night. With our current cases, I just thought that we were gonna lose a towny. That doesn't make sense. When you lynch lurkers, you naturally have very little idea whether they're town or mafia, because they don't post enough to tell. Lynching lurkers makes more sense the less information you have on active players, hence a lurker lynch would be a relatively strong choice if the day was ending in a couple of hours time. Essentially, you lynch lurkers because your cases suck. Also that vague OMGUS at Gumshoe and your general lack of reads are rather worrying. Make up your mind on the lurker lynch thing and post some reads please. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
MannerKiss, Zelblade, TKHawkins and EchelonTee haven't shown up yet today. That's going to make it tough to get a majority lynch if they keep the same hours tomorrow. The first three of those have lurked hardcore so far and really need to post. DimmuKlok hasn't posted since the case against him, which is increasingly scummy behaviour. I'd recommend that he posts some reads (not MannerKiss/Gumshoe: too easy) rather than defending it directly, but posting with substance is essential. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 18 2012 08:14 gumshoe wrote: Hes hostile very hostile, but doesn't seem like mafia. I just don't like day 1, because I can't read anyone who doesn't have a decent post count. That's why I'm concentrating on trying to make people post better. If I'm sounding hostile I should correct that because it's likely to put people off posting. All these things can be interpreted as good mafia play though. What really seals the deal for me in thinking hes town is his efforts to communicate with other mafia semish veterans. Actually I thought I was mostly ignoring them because they had a decent post output and hadn't done anything daft My one complaint is that jaj keeps virtually all his findings to himself so far. I expect a case out of him at least before vote just because It seems almost certain that he's picking up a lot on almost everyone here. Nah, there's no-one that I really want to lynch yet. Hopefully that'll change as the post count increases. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
MidnightGladius: 1. Starts off with a number of completely useless posts on setup. Didn't even do the probability. 2. Makes the usual post on ET vs Sloosh and Gumshoe's poll. Yeah, so did everyone else. 3. Votes the easy target (MannerKiss) with an elaborate lurker-lynch reasoning. 4. Votes the easy target (Gumshoe) because he spams and sucks at statistics. That's it. Low post count apart from the setup filler. No interest in anyone in except the easy targets, and contributing next to nothing to town as a result. I don't think he posted much more in Newbie Mini III, but he had the excuse of being blue there, and it was a slower game (too damn slow). He should know better. Probably much too early to be putting people in bold red, but I'm bored waiting for all the lurkers to post. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 18 2012 09:45 MidnightGladius wrote: You're not even going to vote for me? Hell, I had an internal debate about the bold red, but if it makes you feel any better: ##Vote MidnightGladius | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 18 2012 09:54 EchelonTee wrote: I love the activity though, so refreshing So much for the activity. Neither DimmuKlok's defence nor Steveling's reads have shown up. MannerKiss produced one post with town reads and the obvious target. TKHawkins and Zelblade haven't shown up at all. MidnightGladius apparently thinks that telling people they make no sense is a valid defence. C'mon guys, you can't all be scum. I'm off to bed. Hoping that someone pulls an awesome town-leader performance overnight and gets a proper vote going, because it's going to be seriously tough to get a majority on scum at this rate. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 18 2012 15:45 DoYouHas wrote: I dislike that no one directly addressed my defense of gumshoe, with the exception of ET. I didn't respond to it because I agree with it. I don't really like defending people before they need it, although in this case that may have been an error. I'll go a bit further than your defence: If Gumshoe is scum, he's such a rare and special species of scum that I want to put him in a cage and charge people to visit. The closest thing I've seen is Sheth's spammy scum style, but Gumshoe is a tier or two above that. It's much more likely that he's an over-enthusiastic townie. Also I see a lot of new players are suspicious of ET because he's playing flashy and aggressive. These are not common scum traits: Flashy play makes you the centre of attention, which scum want to avoid. Aggression is normally strongly pro-town - we're not here to be nice to each other. Every time a player makes an accusation, that's something you can use later to find scum by association. The players you should look out for are those who just do the easy things. I'll repeat, as it's important: FLASHY AND AGGRESSIVE PLAY IS NOT SCUMMY. ET is a good enough scum player that he can maybe pull off this style, but it's more likely that he's just town on a victory high. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 19 2012 02:45 TKHawkins wrote: jaj Says flashy and aggressive play are not scummy when talking about Ech. But that's also how he is playing. Convenient eh? Would like more of an explanation about why Midnight in particular deserves a pressure vote, when there are so many others that could have used that too. 1. If you don't believe me on that point, you can PM Palmar and ask him. Or you can just read Palmar's town play. 2. That's not a pressure vote. I think he's scum. You can tell because I wrote a case on him with his name in bold red text. While his contribution to town is no lower than a lot of other players, he's the one who should know better. I'll be writing another post covering his play since my case shortly. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
On February 19 2012 04:08 MidnightGladius wrote: The flaw here is that as soon as we say that "behavior A is scummy," and that "behavior B is not scummy," there is nothing to prevent the mafia from taking your cue and thus avoiding town suspicion. As you seem to know what you're talking about with regard to statistics, you have to admit that P(aggression|scum) is always non-zero. You're missing the point, possibly deliberately. People are using ET's style as the primary reason that he's scum, which is invalid unless P(aggression|scum) is much greater than 27%, which my experience suggests is not remotely true. If people want to argue that ET is scum, they should use valid reasoning. I'm much more worried about EchelonTee, considering that he came back and still hasn't followed through on his original promise to make a case on me. He referred to your case instead of providing reasoning of his own, and then told me to "respond or die." Right. Personally, I think he's waiting for someone else to take the hint and push first, much as he prompted you. His behavior lacks accountability to the town and to himself, and that's far more damning to me than any "flashy or aggressive play" heuristic. This is a valid reason. Unfortunately, it's also a very common thing for flashy and aggressive town players to do, so if that's all you have, it's not a good enough reason to lynch. If you really think I'm scum, then vote for me. Actually vote for me, using the proper format so that it will be counted correctly Zbot doesn't need the colon. My vote counted. Anyway, I'm having a crisis of confidence so I'm going to eat something and then re-read. | ||
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