EPTTL Mafia XXXVII
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
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CubEdIn
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CubEdIn
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Just got to work. So I won't post much now. More to come tonight. I did get to skim through the thread a bit and I must say I love the idea of being placed in a cell with Jackal after what we did in Mafia 36.  But yeah I don't think "cells" are a good idea. If you are sharing sensitive information, mafia may know a great deal of it. If you are not, then they don't really have much use. Using the thread for throwing around ideas is much more useful as it can uncover scum faster in case of a slip. Also, Mafia could do things like killing one/two people out of a cell where there's no mafia, and if they flip blue then town will think that the remaining member(s) have to be mafia. And stuff like that. | ||
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CubEdIn
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I am all achy, excuse my ignorance. | ||
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I had a bit of time to go through the thread, and most likely I will be a bit more free at work today so hopefully I'll contribute more. But this is what I got so far: 1. Icemac vs Gmarshall. I don't think either of them is scum, and here is why: Gmarshall did play a bit different in Mafia 36, but the reason for that was, he was picked Bodyguard on day one. Which means that his place was safe, at least for the first few days. Nobdy was going to lynch him, even if several people would FoS him, which gives one a nice, safe place in the game. In this game, however, he does not have that advantage, so I think it's somewhat normal that he's a bit more touchy, a bit more aggressive, but at least he's trying to provide decent information and come up with a somewhat-well-though-out-plan. Basically, the only problem with his plan is that a bunch of the cells could be mafia-infested, but that can also work to town's advantage if the greens in the circle can figure out that the red is trying to play them. As far as nobody claims early, it should be ok, IMO. Besides, like LSB said, you can't really STOP any kind of town circle as long as PMs are allowed, so there's no reason I can think of to try to stop town this. At best, this is a more "imposed" cell that any player can embrace or ignore. I don't think it can be considered scummish. Icemac, on the other hand, is a smurf, so I can't know what he's usually like, but I'm guessing that he played with us before, and that's why he's being overly aggressive in some instances. I don't think that makes him scum though, especially if he played in Mafia 36 and he's got an idea about what GM "should play like", and isn't. If he didn't play with us before, he might just be a tad on the aggressive side by nature. I don't see why this is considered a bad thing, and I don't see why it's a reason to vote for him. To me, most of the things he said come out as being townish. Either way, it's not really a reason go wagon him no matter how you look at it, and I'm quite suspicious of the players that ganged him so fast. 2. LSB vs. Annul These are both quite experienced players, so I don't think you could get a "read" out of either of them. But it is reminiscent of the way LSB started out Harry Potter Mafia (when we were mafia together), and he was attacking RoL all over. Which lead to both of them being lynched and clearing up DrH of accusation for quite some time. Now I'm not saying LSB is doing this, I'm saying that EITHER of them could be doing this. Or they can both be town or both mafias. I know this is inconclusive, but my "bottom line" would be... don't go for either of them until there's further proof. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go read through the first two days of HP mafia. 3. Ser Aspi This is the most suspicious player to me so far, mostly based on one post: On February 24 2011 12:48 Ser Aspi wrote: cute way to sidetrack the debate off your scummy play. "HE POSTED LOGIC SMURFFFFF AHHHHH IGNORE ME" Sorry if I forgot about tl mafia and been busy playing at epicmafia and mafiascum for the past year. Naturally you don't actually respond to what I said. Even more interesting, a smurf would be someone more knowledgeable than a new player. For you to think that I am a smurf immediately means that you felt what I said had merit. Thus that means you know better, which means you are scum bullshiting. vote## Annul Im gonna knock you off your broomstick boy This is weird, really weird. Mostly because it came RIGHT after LSB made some decent points against Annul. If he wanted to vote for Annul he'd have had a lot of damn good reasons by just "believing" LSB's analysis. But instead he goes and basically OMGUS-votes Annul. Why on earth would you do something like that? Now, I'm not saying he's not right about the smurf/experienced thing on Annul, but he basically voted for him because Annul pointed him out for being a smurf, and he openly admitted that. That's most fishy to me, out of everything I read so far. The second suspect would be Jackal, but I doubt it's a good idea to lynch him over just two posts (like Ser Aspi too, actually). I don't find it odd that he's not being overly aggressive as usual, because it's very early in the game, but I do find it odd that he made the remark about the PM. That does seem a bit off-character. That being said, I don't have any idea of who to vote for actually, at least not yet. But I do know one thing: If Annul and/or LSB are not scum, they'll probably be taken out pretty early in the game, so I don't think it's smart for town to lynch either of them (especially not LSB, since he seems to be a target for Mafia early on when he's red, and if he IS mafia, then he has a pretty pro-town way of playing it, so I think it's safe either way). | ||
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CubEdIn
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On February 24 2011 19:56 Barundar wrote: @cubedin: You post alot but you don't really have anything to add. Your comments on my case was pretty light. That's because I think your case against him is pretty light. You're basically picking on the fact that he said he's not gonna post much. I know that that somewhat differs from his "usual" play, but we're just people, maybe he actually doesn't have time to post much. Heck, I said pretty much the same thing. I was busy so I couldn't post much. I don't see how that makes him scum. The FoS was a simple FoS, and the PM comment, I already said I find a bit suspicious, but that's about it. You can't really say that he's playing differently after half a day, come on, that's absurd. That kind of argument should come in after at least a few 'normal' days. And saying that I post a lot but don't have anything to add is somewhat insulting: I explained why GM is not to be looked at as scum just for that. I explained what I think about both newcomers/smurfs that were voted for. I explained what I think about LSB vs Annul and I drew attention to HP mafia where an argument like that worked very well for mafia, and why it should be avoided. I drew attention to the one post in this thread that seemed really suspicious to me. I gave my thoughts on Jackal's case. And you're sweeping that under the rug as being "lot of talk about nothing"? I read the thread and I expressed my opinions regarding the pressing issues of the town at this moment. What did you expect me to talk about? Lurkers? I'm ok with taking down lurkers as well. Always have been. | ||
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CubEdIn
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Who are you (Gryff) to tell me I have to change my vote? It's a game. It's definitely not LYLO. I can vote whoeverthehell I want. You disagree? Then try to get my lynch afterwards, but don't try and influence the vote while it's going on without any serious reason. You think it's scummy that some people can have their own opinion that's not similar to what everyone else says? How so? Is it not scummier to band wagon someone? That being said, I am going to bandwagon! But not because I don't have the balls to stick to my own choice, but because I found annul's downward spiral to be quite scummy. He seemed OK at first but then started to respond aggressively to the posts, which is exactly what I do when I'm scum. I still think that it's a bad idea overall to lynch someone with decent experience on day 1. I would much rather have annul as a day 2 lynch or so, but I already explained why I really doubt Icemac is town, and his posts made me think so even more. Also, RoL's intervention made me think that gryff (my 2nd in line choice, after S.A.) is town, because if he'd be mafia, the mod-intervention would be imba. And I know from when I was mafia in 36 that the mods posting in the thread is 90% to stop the town from taking the fast train to nowhere. That being said, I sure hope LSB is not wrong about this  ##Vote Annul | ||
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CubEdIn
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Honestly, I didn't think you were right, I thought it was just a grudge, but I was basing my reasoning on the fact that in HP you said that you get the town to win no matter if you're red or blue, which turned out to be true, so you know, hoped it worked here as well. As for my low post count. Sorry. I've just had a lot to do at work. An awful lot. And now it's Friday night (21:35 here), and I will shower, get ready, and leave to the mountains at 5 am because it snowed and I wanna go down a slope at least ONCE this year. So what I'm saying is, not only did I suck so far, but I will probably be AFK for most of the weekend as well. However, I will throw in an opinion or two, and I swear I'll get more active starting on Monday. | ||
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Here's a crappy cell-phone pic of yesterday! + Show Spoiler + I GOT TO SEE SNOW! ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BSyWf.jpg) Now, to the issues at hand. Obviously, the most pressing issue is LSB vs Barundar. LSB: Mostly, the most trouble I have with this is that, if Barundar is right, we have to kill someone who really pushed a red on day 1. That's all. We shouldn't really do this. Here is why: - If LSB is town, and he's as good as people say he is, then he will be targeted by mafia, sooner or later. - If LSB is red, he already outed a team-mate. If mafia is as ballsy as Barundar says, then they might do something equally strange in order to clear LSB. In which case, it spells good for town. So I have no idea why so many people are going along with this. At least give LSB one-two more days and see how the game goes. You can't possibly want one of the more experienced players to die, after pushing a red, based entirely on "he could have played this exactly the same if he was red". True, but that's not a convincing argument. Not for me anyway. There are just two things that make me not dismiss this completely: 1. Harry Potter Mafia, when LSB seemed very, very pro-town in the thread, and he was scum. It can be said that he was Snape so he might have known he was ultimately town-aligned, but at the time he was in our scum team, yet he played very pro-town in the thread (or at least make it seem that way). This could be a more advanced version of that. 2. The "once he flips red" made it seem extremely confident. Which is a bit weird since it was day one. I don't think it's healthy for anyone to be that confident in day 1. Barundar: I don't know if Barundar is red or town, but I honestly don't think it is something that mafia would do. Let's think for a second here, take what Barundar said: The thing is, when someone plays as mafia, it’s hard to do analysis because you know that the person who you are doing analysis is town, so you have to make up stuff. It's kinda hard to make up so much stuff just to try and sink LSB, and even if you do (say, Barundar is red and LSB is town), then it doesn't make any sense because Barundar would die next night for sure, so it would basically be two mafia down just to kill LSB. So if he is red (and they want LSB dead), it's just a really bad move, because once LSB flips town, he's dead. If he's town, it's an even worse move, because if LSB is town, then Barundar will most likely get lynched as well, and you will have wasted two lynches, and two of the better players and get absolutely nowhere. So here's what I'm saying: 1. Think really well about who to vote for. 2. FoS on those who voted on LSB with saying "oh wow that was a good analysis" but didn't really bother to THINK about it and the other possiblities and the outcomes. I'm sure there's at least a few mafia among them who were oh-so-glad an experienced townie is being targeted. Here are a few examples: On February 28 2011 00:23 chaoser wrote: Epic post dude....I'mma put my vote on him cause there's no fucking way mafia would spend that much time crafting a post like that spanning 3 parts... Vote: LSB Yeah, that's a good freaking reason. Why would you bother thinking for yourself when someone posted a 3-part-post? No mafia writes that much! On February 28 2011 00:51 OriginalName wrote: I don't think mafia is beyond bussing d1 at all and I'm not prepared to let them succed for it HOWEVER we have to realize that if we get this wrong we are clearly on the wrong track and. Mafia probably just got some lucky snipes Probably has one experience player and a load of non-experienced players If anything I think the bus was instigated by the random vote on annul about mid way through d1 I like risks however so I think the Bus is definitly plaisable Therefore ##Vote LSB This seems scummiest to me: "mafia probably just got some lucky snipes" - something of a 'reverse-gloating', being happy with the kills but trying to look very pro-town by saying almost nothing. "Probably has one experience player and a load of non-experienced players" - umm, yeah, we can tell that based on... ummm.... ?! slip?! "I like risks however so I think the Bus is definitly plausible" - i like the risk of killing one of the best town players on the 50-50% he's red. (I'm saying 50-50 because he said it's "plausible", not likely or anything else) Of course, my whole theory tumbles if LSB is indeed red. But we are basing this solely on the idea that the mafia team pushed Annul to a lynch on day one, which is a massively ballsy thing to do. I'm not saying LSB is town, but at least give it more time to develop, just don't claim to him or whatever if you don't trust him. As for Jackal, I didn't think he was scum, and I wanted to post a few bits based on Mafia 36 that made me think it was unlikely that he is red, but then he gave up on Gryph and voted LSB based on the fact that it's either him or Barundar, again, being certain that one of them is red, which no player should do so early in the game. That's about enough for now, as I still want to look over the posts and see if I can find someone worthy of my vote. But unless something really scummy pops up, it's definitely not gonna be LSB or Barundar. Not this time band-wagon-man! | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DuLrr.jpg) | ||
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CubEdIn
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You are missing the fact that not only a mafia could use the list that LSB posted to get town to lynch certain people, like if they kill all but one players in tier 2, he would stick out as a sore thumb and town will most likely turn on him unless he's somehow cleared during the game. | ||
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CubEdIn
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On February 28 2011 06:02 Jackal58 wrote: First off. kevconsim - I'm flattered that you think highly enough of me to put me in your sig. Thank you. You must work on Madison Ave. + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2011 04:46 CubEdIn wrote: Hi again peoples. Here's a crappy cell-phone pic of yesterday! + Show Spoiler + I GOT TO SEE SNOW! Now, to the issues at hand. Obviously, the most pressing issue is LSB vs Barundar. LSB: Mostly, the most trouble I have with this is that, if Barundar is right, we have to kill someone who really pushed a red on day 1. That's all. We shouldn't really do this. Here is why: - If LSB is town, and he's as good as people say he is, then he will be targeted by mafia, sooner or later. - If LSB is red, he already outed a team-mate. If mafia is as ballsy as Barundar says, then they might do something equally strange in order to clear LSB. In which case, it spells good for town. So I have no idea why so many people are going along with this. At least give LSB one-two more days and see how the game goes. You can't possibly want one of the more experienced players to die, after pushing a red, based entirely on "he could have played this exactly the same if he was red". True, but that's not a convincing argument. Not for me anyway. There are just two things that make me not dismiss this completely: 1. Harry Potter Mafia, when LSB seemed very, very pro-town in the thread, and he was scum. It can be said that he was Snape so he might have known he was ultimately town-aligned, but at the time he was in our scum team, yet he played very pro-town in the thread (or at least make it seem that way). This could be a more advanced version of that. 2. The "once he flips red" made it seem extremely confident. Which is a bit weird since it was day one. I don't think it's healthy for anyone to be that confident in day 1. Barundar: I don't know if Barundar is red or town, but I honestly don't think it is something that mafia would do. Let's think for a second here, take what Barundar said: The thing is, when someone plays as mafia, it’s hard to do analysis because you know that the person who you are doing analysis is town, so you have to make up stuff. It's kinda hard to make up so much stuff just to try and sink LSB, and even if you do (say, Barundar is red and LSB is town), then it doesn't make any sense because Barundar would die next night for sure, so it would basically be two mafia down just to kill LSB. So if he is red (and they want LSB dead), it's just a really bad move, because once LSB flips town, he's dead. If he's town, it's an even worse move, because if LSB is town, then Barundar will most likely get lynched as well, and you will have wasted two lynches, and two of the better players and get absolutely nowhere. So here's what I'm saying: 1. Think really well about who to vote for. 2. FoS on those who voted on LSB with saying "oh wow that was a good analysis" but didn't really bother to THINK about it and the other possiblities and the outcomes. I'm sure there's at least a few mafia among them who were oh-so-glad an experienced townie is being targeted. Here are a few examples: Yeah, that's a good freaking reason. Why would you bother thinking for yourself when someone posted a 3-part-post? No mafia writes that much! This seems scummiest to me: "mafia probably just got some lucky snipes" - something of a 'reverse-gloating', being happy with the kills but trying to look very pro-town by saying almost nothing. "Probably has one experience player and a load of non-experienced players" - umm, yeah, we can tell that based on... ummm.... ?! slip?! "I like risks however so I think the Bus is definitly plausible" - i like the risk of killing one of the best town players on the 50-50% he's red. (I'm saying 50-50 because he said it's "plausible", not likely or anything else) Of course, my whole theory tumbles if LSB is indeed red. But we are basing this solely on the idea that the mafia team pushed Annul to a lynch on day one, which is a massively ballsy thing to do. I'm not saying LSB is town, but at least give it more time to develop, just don't claim to him or whatever if you don't trust him. As for Jackal, I didn't think he was scum, and I wanted to post a few bits based on Mafia 36 that made me think it was unlikely that he is red, but then he gave up on Gryph and voted LSB based on the fact that it's either him or Barundar, again, being certain that one of them is red, which no player should do so early in the game. That's about enough for now, as I still want to look over the posts and see if I can find someone worthy of my vote. But unless something really scummy pops up, it's definitely not gonna be LSB or Barundar. Not this time band-wagon-man! Here's my problem Cubed. Everybody expects me to tunnel. They call me aggressive. I'm damned if I do. I'm damned if I don't I understand what you wanted to link in XXXVI. My persistent vote on you. The difference between then and now is then I was positive you were on the red team. Now I have no one individual I can point at and say "you are scum" Not yet anyways. Barundar believes me to be scum due to my not tunneling. If you read the games I've been in til late game that "tunneling" hasn't started until about day 3 or so. We are still in day two. We have a pissing contest between two people that fervently believe the other is scum. I am vacillating between believing that either they both are or neither are. I honestly don't know yet. What I do know is I am surly incapable of pushing for a lynch on gryffindor. deconduo is the only other person here that I can see that would keep their vote on him til the end of day. I do know that I am going to change my vote back. I have seen enough from both of them to believe it to be at best a 50/50 shot of hanging another red. I don't like 50/50. ##UNVOTE: LSB ##VOTE: gryffindor I'd rather lynch a 100% confirmed liar. Oh, no, you understood me wrong. I was going to say that you had some moments in Mafia 36 where you were very pro-town. I found similarities here as well, and I was thinking about writing those in order to back you up as being town. BUT, your vote towards LSB made me think twice. I'm not saying it makes you scummy, I'm just saying that I'm not very keen into backing you up anymore, because I very much disagreed with your move. Also, I was going to post this sooner, but now I'm even more annoyed. What the fk Kenpachi? You always make me go WTF when I play with you. Can you please explain, how did your vote on Barundar make sense? If he was red, would it make sense that two reds die to kill LSB? Wouldn't it be easier to just triple-stack him and get it over with? And now you're saying "well it could be this or that, we should think about it!". I don't think you're putting too much into this game, as you only seem to be posting controversial things. I know that sometimes your approach works (like say, voting for a bunch of people to get them to talk), but you also do a lot of things that make no sense whatsoever to me, like voting for Barundar. The only way that Barundar is scum is if he devised a way to lynch LSB and then come out as town (like hope that a DT checks him and he is Godfather), otherwise, it's a 1-1 trade for mafia which just doesn't make sense, because if LSB flipped green, then the town would 90% sure turn on Barundar. That being said, still have no idea who to vote for. I would vote for OriginalName because of the reasons mentioned in my previous post (bussing LSB with no explanation), but I was thinking of voting for icemac in day 1 as well, and I think LSB is right about not splitting votes. | ||
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CubEdIn
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Now I really don't know who to vote for. | ||
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DI'JA LOGIN WITH THE WRONG ACCOUNT? DI'JA? I looked over the past few pages 5 times, and nobody really sticks out as scum. Icemac is more scummy than either LSB or Barundar in my eyes, but not enough for him to deserve a lynch. Can't I just stick to OriginalName? | ||
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CubEdIn
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Why wouldn't you?! He's been nothing but scum this whole game. Practically half of his posts are unfounded votes. I demand he dies! @ Barundar: I know you're willing to die, but what if you're wrong and you're both green? That would screw up the town big time. Don't you agree? All I ask for is a bit more time for us to draw conclusions. @ LSB: I am 100% against Barundar lynch. If I had to choose between you two (if there were just us 3 left in the game), I would choose to lynch you. But I'm 90% sure that he's town, and I'm 70% sure that you're town as well. So basically, you're asking me to vote for icemac, so that I take a stance. Even though I would pick OriginalName over most everyone else, based on that one post alone. | ||
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I guess that I'll vote for him as well, as I want to sleep, though the only thing that I can base it on is the fact that annul had the chance to try and shift his lynch on him and chose not to do so. But it's all too wishy-washy if you ask me. ##vote icemac | ||
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It's night time, so I don't see the point in arguing much, but I do wanna say something. Foolishness picked on me for having an unhealthy attitude, and I agree. However, I disagree with your post and analysis (which I consider quite good, and even if I didn't, I would at least consider your stance as one of the most experienced players) coming 2-3-4 hours before nightfall. I understand that one should take time to consider positions and such, but for me at least, it's very hard to stay up so much just to reconsider my vote. (12 is like... 5 or 6 am here). So what I'm saying is, I don't like this instant-bandwagon coming on 2-3 hours before night. If one is to shift a lynch, it's best done with at least 6 hours before tally. I mean, day lasts 48 hours and it seems that it all comes down to the last 2 or 3, which is unfair towards those who are not online at the time, and also somewhat detrimental to the town, because I assume that at least the mafia is active enough to take part in such votes and shift the lynch in an unwanted direction. I'm just ranting because I didn't want to vote for either LSB or Barundar, and I choked. Next time I won't and I'll keep my vote on my suspect (who was OriginalName at the time), even if I'm the only one voting for him. Carry on. | ||
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On March 01 2011 14:16 Coagulation wrote: also LOL @ mafia spend kp on Kenpachi That's exactly what I thought when I read the post. And no, I did not shoot Original Name. GM is right though, I did suspect him a lot, mostly because of that bus-vote on LSB, but I didn't shoot anyone. If I were a Vig, I would save my hit for someone more important, who I couldn't get lynched by making a case towards the town. | ||
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I watched him from a scum perspective, and he was a bit of a thorn in our pawn. This game, however, I barely noticed him. Still, I expected that if he were scum, he would have become more active once the FoS was pointing at him, but he hasn't, so I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that he's simply being less active for this one. But yeah I do agree with one thing wholeheartedly: get the lurkers to talk. Someone in PM told me that people might be lurking due to the fact that they're medics or such and don't want to be sticking out, but mafia already knows who's mafia, so the green/blue lurkers WILL stick out like a sore thumb to them, especially if they don't start talking and town doesn't cast any blame on them. See Mafia XXXVI's Mr.Wiggles and BrownBear for example. At the end of the game I had to guess who medic was, and I picked one of these two. BB was medic and Wiggles was Mason. And it was obvious because town was protecting them. So, yeah, bottom line is, get everyone to talk. Let's start with... ohN. Are you even part of this game? | ||
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