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Weeeee /in
Or, Doc, if you need me to, I would love to help you mod.
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On December 07 2010 20:41 Coagulation wrote:
i dont think its fair to caller to call sengoku dead. caller still takes the time to update it and the players are still playing it. its just very slow.
No, it is very fair to call it dead. It is ridiculous that one day/night cycle takes almost a week, and unreasonable to expect people to still be dedicated.
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Oh shit, I'm in those too...
uhhhhh. I fix it.
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Doc, if I'm just in this and HP is that alright?
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On December 08 2010 12:11 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2010 12:06 koreasilver wrote:
Actually, you know, it might be best for me to watch a game before actually taking place. I've never played TL mafia before. Jumping right in is the best way. 
That's what I did. People will definitely be willing to help you learn. I'm fairly new myself, but I'm loving it.
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On December 08 2010 23:11 Roffles wrote:
Man, it would suck to be Koffing or Weezing, cause they suck.
Well Weezing is just a role blocker, which is pretty standard right?
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Fun day post. I love Doc's posts, he always seems to have so much fun with them.
Ok, let's get down to business (to defeat the Huns...)
On December 10 2010 08:04 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 07:56 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote:
Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. Having a general system for how blues play is pretty important. We need to establish a good town environment where the most pro-town players won't find themselves dead. We need to establish a place where everyone is active. Sure, we could leave everything to RNG, but we could do so much more with the blues. I have to agree with this, having a general idea of how the town runs will help keep down the number of accidental lynchings. This is more or less pulled from one of the guides that DcH posted, but when you have a town that uses larger posts, filled with a lot of information, it makes it a lot easier to pick out those that want to give no new information and are simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said in the thread.If we start with a town that runs this way, it should carry through to the end of the game. The best way to keep a town that functions correctly functioning this way would be to keep the people that are running in a more administrative fashion (i guess i could say that) where they are trying to keep some semblance of order alive. I mean a town that runs all willy-nilly chaotic is a town that breeds scum, where a town that runs in a more ordered fashion has a higher chance of weeding out those that are trying to bring disorder to an already disorderly situation. Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? It says that the mafia get 3kp, added to this mewtwo (although not part of the mafia, is still playing against the town) has 1kp. This means there can be 3 mafia targets, and 1 third party target a night.
You mean like this post is doing?
From your two posts, I've noticed you haven't really added too much at all. Your first post was almost exclusively regurgitating previous posts. Your second one you seemed to be trying to add more, saying you've read guides, and it appears that you are trying hard to look like the poster child of "how to be a townie". Everyone pretty much knows the environment that is conducive to town progress. It is very apparent when scum tries to disrupt things if they are going smoothly. We just have to catch them as they are doing it before things spiral out of control.
Townies don't need to try to look like townies, because they already are.
@LSB: While trying to coordinate blues seems good, I have to say, the more games I play, the more I hate to see people directing blues in thread. On Day 1, I think they need to do what they think needs to be done without influence from the thread. Any direction from the thread can also be seen by scum, and thus they will be clued in as well. No, obviously, I know that the blues don't need to listen to what is said in the thread, but they will be influenced by what is said. Let's hope we have good blues this time around.
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Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun.
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On December 10 2010 09:29 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 08:04 Insanious wrote:On December 10 2010 07:56 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 07:46 Amber[LighT] wrote:On December 10 2010 07:42 Oceanic wrote:
Doesn't it say in 1 of the guides posted that lynching an inactive day 1 is not something you should do? Lynching an inactive typically results in lynching an apathetic townie. Everyone should be posting frequently to discuss who should die for day 1. There are no PM's so everything should be out in the open. We should really worry less about how the blues should play. Thinks like role checks won't be overly reliable, and saving people cannot be discussed in the thread. It probably would be a good idea for the electrodes to think about where to place voltorbs and pick up on good scum tells. Having a general system for how blues play is pretty important. We need to establish a good town environment where the most pro-town players won't find themselves dead. We need to establish a place where everyone is active. Sure, we could leave everything to RNG, but we could do so much more with the blues. I have to agree with this, having a general idea of how the town runs will help keep down the number of accidental lynchings. This is more or less pulled from one of the guides that DcH posted, but when you have a town that uses larger posts, filled with a lot of information, it makes it a lot easier to pick out those that want to give no new information and are simply regurgitating stuff that has already been said in the thread.If we start with a town that runs this way, it should carry through to the end of the game. The best way to keep a town that functions correctly functioning this way would be to keep the people that are running in a more administrative fashion (i guess i could say that) where they are trying to keep some semblance of order alive. I mean a town that runs all willy-nilly chaotic is a town that breeds scum, where a town that runs in a more ordered fashion has a higher chance of weeding out those that are trying to bring disorder to an already disorderly situation. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? It says that the mafia get 3kp, added to this mewtwo (although not part of the mafia, is still playing against the town) has 1kp. This means there can be 3 mafia targets, and 1 third party target a night. You mean like this post is doing? From your two posts, I've noticed you haven't really added too much at all. Your first post was almost exclusively regurgitating previous posts. Your second one you seemed to be trying to add more, saying you've read guides, and it appears that you are trying hard to look like the poster child of "how to be a townie". Everyone pretty much knows the environment that is conducive to town progress. It is very apparent when scum tries to disrupt things if they are going smoothly. We just have to catch them as they are doing it before things spiral out of control. Townies don't need to try to look like townies, because they already are. Two newer mafia players asked two questions, I was simply answering them. Its not like I was just throwing that info out there as if it was anything new. Eiii asked what a pro-town environment entitled, while Kenpachi asked how many attacks the mafia can make in a night. Both of which they could of found by reading what DrH posted, but I thought it would be nice to answer both questions... I guess if you would rather I could of simply just not answered their questions and left them guessing.
I missed Eiii's post asking about that, your second post is warranted. I still stand by my point on your first post though. You pretty much reiterate what people have been saying while saying "try to watch for people just spewing the same stuff again." They are just things I'm taking note of.
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On December 10 2010 09:40 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. How do you propose we deal with inactives/lurkers then? We can't just 'leave it for another day'. It's going to be a problem, and if we have no good leads day one, we should do this early, rather than late. Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:
@LSB: While trying to coordinate blues seems good, I have to say, the more games I play, the more I hate to see people directing blues in thread. On Day 1, I think they need to do what they think needs to be done without influence from the thread. Any direction from the thread can also be seen by scum, and thus they will be clued in as well. No, obviously, I know that the blues don't need to listen to what is said in the thread, but they will be influenced by what is said. Let's hope we have good blues this time around. So your saying that plans are bad? Interesting. Take my plan, what's bad about it?
I agree that we should point to inactives if we have no other leads, but I'm saying to not just say "ok, let's find the inactives" right away. We have 48 hours to find candidates for lynch, no reason to dismiss the possibility of finding one right off the bat.
I didn't say your plan was bad, seeing as you didn't really post a plan, nor did I say the word "plan" I was merely pointing out my own observations. What you had posted was good, it was vague, and a good general direction. Getting anymore specific than that at this point can be dangerous.
On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first.
How can you possibly say this? The game literally just started, and we have 48 hours to scumhunt. Again, I am going to say, there is no reason to dismiss the idea of finding a lynch candidate Day 1.
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On December 10 2010 09:46 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:44 Node wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what your "plan" is, LSB. All you've said is that we need to "have a general system for how blues play" and that barring any glaringly scummy play we should lynch an inactive day 1. Could you be a little more specific? Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 07:43 LSB wrote:
One plan that would work is to use the blue roles to promote activity in the town.
The Alakazam should check the inactive people and the lurkers, as it is incredibly difficult if not impossible to tell the difference between a bored townie and a lurking mafia.
The Chansey's should protect active players, this way the mafia won't be able to take out the people who are contributing the most to town, so people won't be scared of trying to put forth their opinions.
I wouldn't say that's really a plan. I would say it's a general direction and usually is what occurs. Only difference from the usual is using Alakazam to check inactives as opposed to possible mafia suspects. I'm not so sure about checking the inactives. It depends on how many we have. If there are a lot, checking them could just be a waste, but if it is narrowed down to a few players, I would say it's worth it.
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On December 10 2010 09:53 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 09:40 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. How do you propose we deal with inactives/lurkers then? We can't just 'leave it for another day'. It's going to be a problem, and if we have no good leads day one, we should do this early, rather than late. On December 10 2010 08:53 jcarlsoniv wrote:
@LSB: While trying to coordinate blues seems good, I have to say, the more games I play, the more I hate to see people directing blues in thread. On Day 1, I think they need to do what they think needs to be done without influence from the thread. Any direction from the thread can also be seen by scum, and thus they will be clued in as well. No, obviously, I know that the blues don't need to listen to what is said in the thread, but they will be influenced by what is said. Let's hope we have good blues this time around. So your saying that plans are bad? Interesting. Take my plan, what's bad about it? I agree that we should point to inactives if we have no other leads, but I'm saying to not just say "ok, let's find the inactives" right away. We have 48 hours to find candidates for lynch, no reason to dismiss the possibility of finding one right off the bat. I didn't say your plan was bad, seeing as you didn't really post a plan, nor did I say the word "plan" I was merely pointing out my own observations. What you had posted was good, it was vague, and a good general direction. Getting anymore specific than that at this point can be dangerous. On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first. How can you possibly say this? The game literally just started, and we have 48 hours to scumhunt. Again, I am going to say, there is no reason to dismiss the idea of finding a lynch candidate Day 1. You must understand. In order to make sure that people are active, we have to decide early that we going to punish people who are inactive. This way, people are going to be warned and hopefully people won't be inactive. Best case scenario we won't have to lynch an inactive person in the first place since everyone will contribute to the town. I notice you avoided discussion on my 'general direction.' Do you support it? Why? Do you now think we should give general directions to blues?
I don't not support it (if that makes any sense). I am going under the assumption that our blues are at least halfway competent players, and will be able to think for themselves to use their roles effectively. This may be very naive though.
I think general direction right now is fine for now, as long as we don't get too specific, especially Day 1. The last thing I want is for blues to be sniped right away. In this sense, I definitely agree with you that everyone should keep their roles secret for now.
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On December 10 2010 10:06 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first. Show nested quote +
How can you possibly say this? The game literally just started, and we have 48 hours to scumhunt. Again, I am going to say, there is no reason to dismiss the idea of finding a lynch candidate Day 1.
Game started long before first day post. Interesting that you still defy chances: mafia takes some time to get in contact. Maybe you want to propose a lynch candidate right now? I actually have one right in front of me. Edit to pretify
From the Day Post:
The day has begun. It will end at 1200 KST on Sunday (TL time) or 7:00 PM PST/10 EST on Saturday. You have a little extra time today.
You want to propose me as a lynch candidate because I am trying to generate discussion instead of being like "Oh yeah, ok, let's just jump on the plan to lynch inactives. See you guys in 2 days." No.
Also from the First post of the thread:
7. Editing posts. Editing posts is not allowed for any reason. The mods can see your edits, and if you are caught, you will look suspicious. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be owned.Please do not edit; this is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
If you have to edit, edit by way of post (EBWOP).
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On December 10 2010 10:14 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:
You want to propose me as a lynch candidate because I am trying to generate discussion instead of being like "Oh yeah, ok, let's just jump on the plan to lynch inactives. See you guys in 2 days." No.
I don't get this.
In response to:
Game started long before first day post. Interesting that you still defy chances: mafia takes some time to get in contact. Maybe you want to propose a lynch candidate right now? I actually have one right in front of me.
Unless I'm misunderstanding his post, he seems to be accusing me. Although the bolded portion doesn't really make much sense to me. Can you clarify it Gabriel?
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On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote:
48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP.
At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed.
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On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote:
48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives?
Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie.
I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills.
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On December 10 2010 10:25 Gabriel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:17 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:14 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:10 jcarlsoniv wrote:
You want to propose me as a lynch candidate because I am trying to generate discussion instead of being like "Oh yeah, ok, let's just jump on the plan to lynch inactives. See you guys in 2 days." No.
I don't get this. In response to: Game started long before first day post. Interesting that you still defy chances: mafia takes some time to get in contact. Maybe you want to propose a lynch candidate right now? I actually have one right in front of me. Unless I'm misunderstanding his post, he seems to be accusing me. Although the bolded portion doesn't really make much sense to me. Can you clarify it Gabriel? Mafia needs time to coordinate. Is that clear? I dont get your bolded either.
I understand that they need time to coordinate. I was bolding because I wanted to ask you about that section because I was confused, and bold font points it out quite nicely.
I don't understand what your point is though. Are you saying that since they need time to coordinate, they will be inactive? Scum will still post in the thread, especially since there will be 48 hours of activity before a lynch occurs. They won't be inactive the entire time.
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On December 10 2010 10:31 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:26 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:21 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:19 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 10 2010 10:17 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:15 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:11 LSB wrote:On December 10 2010 10:02 d3_crescentia wrote:
48 hours is not a long time to find scum. Let's start now.
LSB's blue plan is pretty meh. It's not a good plan of attack for our Zams to check lurkers and inactives; they should be checking people who could be scum, including whoever is contributing the most. Keep in mind that all the mafia needs to do is to distract and confuse the town enough so that they make poor decisions.
Remember, the town's best weapon is analysis. By checking the inactives, we flush out the mafia to the limelight where they easily could be found. We want the mafia to attempt to distract the town, this way we can catch onto what they are doing. The town has to be vigilant to guard against these attempts + Show Spoiler +Discussing a plan is one of the best ways to generate activity and catch a scum btw I'd rather we just kill the inactives. I think checking them is a waste. The problem is that Lynching an inactive takes up an entire town lynch, which is far more useful and powerful than a DT check. Our lynches must work twords lowering mafia KP. At the same time, DTs must be used to work towards lowering mafia KP too. Analysis is great, but it can only go so far before WIFOM kicks in and confirmation is needed. Again, what do you propose to do about inactives? Well, here is my thought process. Wasting a lynch on an inactive sucks. However, I would prefer to use a lynch than a DT. Using a lynch is hit or miss, but it only wastes one action, while making more headway to finding scum with the DT. Using the DT on inactives pretty much wastes the DT if it is on town, while a lynch on a player is still a bit hit or miss (unless good analysis is done), and accidentally lynching an active townie would be more hurtful than an inactive townie. I am hoping it does not come to this and that everyone contributes though. I would love for a game without a bagillion modkills. Wait. What? Lynch is less important than a DT check?
I would rather waste a Day 1 lynch than a Day 1 DT I feel. Day 1 lynches are tough. Definitely not impossible, but tough when everything is just starting out. Using a DT on someone who isn't going to even bother contributing wouldn't be worth it. Using DT checks on active members is definitely more important.
I'm a bit confused now though...You want to DT check inactives AND lynch inactives? That just seems like a waste of resources.
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On December 10 2010 10:47 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 10:35 Hesmyrr wrote:On December 10 2010 10:25 d3_crescentia wrote:On December 10 2010 10:23 Hesmyrr wrote:
Moreover D1 lynches are always crapshoot. It is good and fine to publicly discuss and prod one's suspects, but at least waiting until D2 so one have more actual data to support the case on him/her seems just better. This is a large setup so we cannot just afford to let all the lurkers pass-by. They're always crapshoot because we have players that go about finding scum in a crappy way. I suggest that everyone else vote for you as well. Chances of finding scum D2 > Chances of finding scum D1 always just purely on the basis that amount of information available will increase as the game progresses. Although lynching inactives is always a start, we shouldn't discount the power of day one analysisI've seen it many times actually. Kenpachi/Coagulation (Almost, but we switched)- Deconduo's Don't lose your village game Me/Pyrr- TLMMM 2 Masq- Haunted Mafia Bill Murray (Almost, but Ace made us switch x.x)- Penalty Mafia And many others...
I feel like you just said what I have been trying to say all along! haha
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EPT
