EPTTL Mafia XVIII
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Poland8075 Posts
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Poland8075 Posts
a) dead mafia on the other family b) a free kill for a vig or lynch on his family. More importantly, we can trace some of his support if he is indeed scum, which may give us more information. It all depends on what he can do for us. Of course, if he's town affiliated, he can only benefit us. I submit that we lynch random people for the first lynch like we usually do. You never know, we may get lucky. Lynching strong players right now could really hurt the town, especially without any information. Of course, it may also cripple mafia as well, but I'm not sure we should take such a risk right now. | ||
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Poland8075 Posts
One thing that everybody seems to mention but nobody ever seems to truly appreciate is how exactly we should go about getting the mafia to swing each other. However, back in Ace's mafia world, which was the last game to feature two mafias (albeit with much higher kill numbers) I had concocted a plan which could abuse the fact that there were two mafias through information. Of course a certain somebody that shall not be named did something that destabilized the whole game (and therefore my plan) but that's not important. Those who have access to that plan can probably look it up but because it may still prove to be useful I will not post it in public just yet. As it stands right now, mafia is in a similar position to town. Unlike in most games, where mafia knows all their opponents, and just needs to worry about taking down special roles and good players, in this case mafia has to be careful . They need to not over extend themselves and weaken town and opposing mafia simultaneously, as too much attacking on one side could expose them to an attack by the other. At the same time, town needs to be wary of a mafia attacking another mafia and inflicting severe amounts of damage. However, don't forget that if this is the case it is very possible that the other mafia and town could come together to "team up" against the original mafia. Thus, we know that mafia will need to play cautiously. However, it is also possible that mafia will team up like they did in the last one, and just rape town senseless. We need to be careful for signs that this is the case (i.e. no or one/two mafia get hit) A good way to counter this, I suppose, would be to simply start grouping players together. It doesn't matter how, just group them together. I highly suspect mafia will be careful not to over extend themselves in each group and may have only one or two people infiltrate. But that gives us an idea of how to start-namely, that each group undoubtedly has a few mafia present, and thus we could potentially use our role checks there to begin whittling down the numbers. Once we clear out the infiltrators we can likely vet the group as a whole to be innocent. The other thing we should do, however, is use mafia's kp against each other. If we manage to find out a few mafia, we shouldn't immediately kill them or have vigs hits on them, but rather force each mafia to devote hits to killing those other mafia. In fact, if the numbers are getting lopsided, it may be in town's interest to protect those mafia. These are just some rambling thoughts about what we should do first. | ||
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First of all, why are we voting for citi.zen? Just because he did a good job "last" game doesn't mean he's going to be a good candidate this game. Ace and Qatol, for instance, fell into this exact same mentality, and look what happened? They both turned out scum. Anybody that asks you to vote for them solely on past experience is clearly trying to abuse that factor or doesn't have any other redeeming qualities. We should instead concentrate on voting for people who have a defined idea of what they're going to do. Remember: in this game, the mayor doesn't play the role that he does usually. I was the head of the town in the last game that featured two mafia (Ace's Mafia World) and I can assure you that having to deal with two mafias radically changes the game. The mayor's role here is solely going to be the ability to know all the bodyguards and to get town circles rolling. It is obvious that no matter who wins that there will be at least some mafia posing as bodyguards, purely because of simple game theory: If the mayor isn't affiliated with mafia a, then it must be a townie or mafia b, in which case the mafia will place bodyguards to expose them to night attack, etc. The very fact that mafia will definitely have at least some bodyguards present-even if town realizes this it is unlikely that mafia would be so willing to forego a chance at taking out an opposing mayor. Thus, the mayor's role, assuming a townie gets in, is to try and organize town so as to search the bodyguards. Mafia don't have as strong of an incentive to kill DTs right now because DTs are a great way to get the roles of the opposing mafia. Thus, DTs can feel safe to check the bodyguards and the mayor should allow the DTs to get the bodyguard list. The problem is finding a way to get the DTs to contact the mayor while avoiding infiltrators posing as DTs to do role checks. But I think the risks for infiltration are too high-at best they will get one enemy mafia, and at worse will lose the infiltrator-a trade that I think will not be worth it. While I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying the incentives are too strong against it to make it worthwhile. Once the BGs have been cleared of scum, a town circle could be created solely among the BGs, and other secured townies. If BGs start dying like flies the mayor instantly becomes suspect and so we can remove him that way and get a kill. At that point, the remaining BGs lose their role usefulness, so it will not hurt town significantly. This is I think a rough start of what the mayor should do to set up a town circle and prevent mafiasos from trying to turn us too much from one side to the other. | ||
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On February 15 2010 09:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Caller the issue with your plan is getting ahold of a real dt. Ideally yes, the town circle is formed by the bgs who are the only 100% for sure role when checked. You first need the mayor to get in contact with a dt, you also need to hope to god that not all bgs are red, hope the dt doesnt die, etc... Once the dt has done his job, the circle is formed and the fun begins. Getting it started is the hard part. That's just it though: in this game the DT doesn't have to worry about dying as much purely because Mafia has a fixed, low KP, and we have medics. Suppose a DT roleclaims publicly that he is a DT. The mafias can't afford to hit him in the event that he is an actual DT because they will lose a KP that would be better served hitting an opposing mafia. More importantly, since mafia don't have to kill town to win, they don't need to hunt down all the blue roles immediately-in fact, they would like to have a DT to give them role checks to narrow down their search for the opposing mafia. So there's no real need for the DT to fear, especially because we have enough medics to negate any deaths. I already explained why its unlikely for mafia to pose as a DT purely because there's too much risk and not enough reward for the mafia team because there are two mafias. The game changes completely in this scenario so a lot more can be done than in a normal town vs. one mafia game. | ||
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You could just summarize it as this: Active posters - DoctorHelvetica BillMurray Chezinu Redtooth Meeple Ace L Iaaan BC I dunno some of the newer players very well so I can't pass judgement on their actions. Of course we would expect some of the "veteran" players to say lots of shit cuz that's how they roll. People with wise things to say Zato-1, Redtooth (just a lil') Foolishness (especially the part about people spamming shit),~Opz~ I think ~Opz~ always has valid points. I remember when I was running Red Army Mafia that he nailed a lot of people on clues, even if nobody listened to anything he had to say. everyone else seems to be talking random shit if you ask me ~~~ | ||
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On February 16 2010 05:39 L wrote: You made an awfully large post about remarkably little. Especially when you have 4 total posts and you're normally a very active player who provides substantial content to the town. are we playing mafia on the same forum? | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:05 Ace wrote: Instead of criticizing people for making useless posts how about you make keep the ball rolling Caller? i'm pissed that nobody's listening to me as usual and it seems that everybody else in the game has adopted the "troll the fuck out of the mafia thread until someone slips up" strategy. Not that the strategy doesn't work, but when everybody does it just causes useful posts like Zato's to get buried underneath steaming piles of shit. i mean what else is there to say right now. no dts have come forth, despite me saying that it's unlikely dts will die even if they rc. Similarly, the mayor hasn't even been elected yet and we don't even know the identity of the BGs. I have a plan for that but I don't want to reveal it just yet until after the election. We've had a few roleclaims from PMs, apparently, but most of those appear to be phishing. DoctorHelvetica and Bill Murray are spamming the thread full of shit, which, while I'm not sure if they're mafia or not, in the event that they're not makes them stupid townies. this game is just really frustrating for me. I'm surprised that Ver, my second-in-command in ur mafia game, hasn't had any real insights on how to abuse the two mafias against each other, especially when he helped pipe in on the plan (that ultimately fell through thanks to a certain somebody). You also haven't had any real insights either, other than trolling the fuck out of the thread. I can't really blame anyone else to be honest, especially since MTF, Camlito, and all the other experienced players in that game aren't in this one. Instead, we're relying on the mafia game equivalent of trench warfare to deal with the two mafia blitzkrieg. Unless there's some townie circle that I'm not privy to, I really don't see much else that I can contribute at this point in time. rageeeeeeeeeee /end rant | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:18 Foolishness wrote: You don't read Chezinu's posts do you? I mean, I don't blame you for not reading anything he says. Personally, banging my head into a wall seems more productive than having to slog through his garbage. But hey, I guess reading through did come in handy for this one instance. I know chezinu made some pretense at roleclaiming DT. But I have no idea if he was kidding or not, nor did he make any effort at trying to rally people around him, nor did he offer to have someone checked. He just pointed some fingers and put some fancy colors on his postingz. you gotta walk the walk if you gonna talk the talk | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:24 Nikoner wrote: How do you expect DTs to come forward, they haven't even had the chance to do anything during the night yet. Only reason to come forward as a DT today would be if you're the godfather of a mafia so you could potentially infiltrate townie circles, and even then, it's way risky. Did you even read my post? I already stated very clearly that there is absolutely no incentive for mafia to kill DTs right now, or as long as the balance of power between the two mafias is maintained. None at all. Mafia have no method of identifying other mafia at this stage this early in the game. They want DTs to clear up suspects on their lists. Mafia don't have to kill a single townie this game in order to win, either. And I doubt a godfather would expose themselves this early. Why would they care about townie circles? Again, I stated multiple times that all mafia has to do is kill the other mafia. Infiltrating townie circles is a lot less useful than it is in games with just one mafia. | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:19 Ace wrote: Well Caller, it's kind of hard for me to really do much so far since from Day 1 about 4 people have called for my head. I'd think spending my times vehemently proclaiming my innocence was a better use of my time. I'm not trolling at all, show me when I did?  Besides, MTF and Camlito haven't played in over a year. I highly doubt there's a town circle already unless people are doing the blind faith thing again. Also I don't agree that DTs should roleclaim early. If I were Mafia I'd kill them asap. Even if my win condition is to murder the other family why would I want them to have help? DTs are a double edged sword in that regard. a) lies b) truths, but still it'd be nice to have them along. Now that I think about isn't Fishball here? Or is he afk troll again? c) I see malongo is playing, hmm d) While this statement surely is true, if you're putting KP against DTs, that's KP that can't be used against potential mafia suspects. I'm not sure if Mafia would be willing to forego that KP when the other mafia can just as easily put all their hits and possibly do more damage to the first mafia. KP is too important in this game to be wasted on town players (even DTs) when the other side can take advantage of this fact and hit them. | ||
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On February 16 2010 06:31 Nikoner wrote: We can't just blindly post lists of confirmed mafia, what if we discover 8 members of the same family? If we post that, it's pretty much an auto-loss. Suddenly, being able to derive information from a somewhat private discussion becomes much more powerful. Couple that with the fact that mafia wouldn't typically want to kill DTs as you and it's not that bad of an idea. First of all, why would we posts lists of confirmed mafia? This isn't Ver's "medics stay away" list, and we don't have listchecks either. More importantly, if we find out that they are all the same members of the same family, we can very easily turn all our efforts into hunting down the other family to restore the balance of power. It's very easy to adapt to a change in circumstance like this. | ||
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On February 16 2010 07:09 Ace wrote: @Caller: How Am I lying? Explain please. @Dr.H: There wasn't a big backlash of people against my clue connection. Please, this is like the 5th time you've over exaggerated a situation. your many traps that you lay appear to be just subtle trolls to provoke responses. I'm not saying that they're not valid sources of information, I'm just saying they're trolls designed to trip people up. It doesn't really help establish order in the town is my concern. | ||
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On February 16 2010 10:27 Ace wrote: ^_^ they see me rollin, they hatin patrollin' dey tryin catch me ridin dirteh...? | ||
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When the three Mafiosi made it to the city gate, they each decided to go in their separate directions, moving swiftly towards the houses of their victims. The first Mafioso went straight for the town center. When he finally arrived at his victim’s house, he noticed that the door had been left wide open. Cautiously, he peeked in the window, noticing that a pot of soup was still cooking on the stove. A pencil and a few charts were also spread on the table, but the Mafioso could not notice that anything important or telling about the papers. Figuring that his victim had been alerted to his presence and had hidden all his important documents before hastily vanishing, the Mafioso tiptoed upstairs, careful not to make any noises that could alert his victim. Upon reaching the upstairs bedroom, the Mafioso noticed fresh tracks beneath the window, and jumped down, careful not to disturb the tracks. He raced through the forest, and soon found his robed target sitting by the lake. Ace felt no surprise as he turned around to greet the Mafioso. He was about to warn the Mafioso that he couldn’t hide in the darkness, when suddenly the Mafioso sprayed gasoline all over Ace and quickly lit a match. As he left the scene, Ace’s attacker muttered to himself, thinking how much fun it would be to terrorize the town not only in the darkness, but also in the light. I think the most interesting things here are the fact that this is likely the same mafiaso that was really "bright" in the day 1 post. Since Empyrean was dead and green, this clue must point to somebody else. Now before anyone mentions it, I'm going to immediately say that if this clue points to Amber[Light], I'm going to cut myself. Meanwhile, the second Mafioso made his way all the way across town to a small apartment on the edge of the city wall. Although the road to the residence was filled with many twists and turns, the Mafioso was able to reach the apartment without too much loss of time. The Mafioso knocked on the door, waiting for a response. Nervous, Zato-1 pulled out his shotgun, ready to shoot the intruder if he proved to be a menace. But Zato-1 could not have been more prepared for what happened next. As he opened the door, he was immediately knocked down and impaled by an array of sharp objects. The intruder was nowhere to be seen, although neighbors who have walked by the now open door have noticed a hole in the wall directly behind where Zato-1 had been killed. This intruder I would guess to be some kind of a ninja, considering that a) the mafiaso was able to get there quickly, killed Zato with sharp objects (shurikens, anyone?) and was nowhere to be seen, although there was a hole behind the door, which could have been something else. The third Mafioso headed toward the construction site, where workers had been trying to rush build a new town jail. From the building above, the third Mafioso noticed his target working in the guard tower across the jail courtyard. Smiling to himself, he snuck around to near the tower and took control of a crane that he had hidden nearby. Only a few of the workers noticed the large shadow blocking out the bright artificial light necessary to light the construction site. A few yelled at the workers to get out of the way, and fortunately everyone did but one. BloodyC0bbler did not notice as a miniature version of a stone sphinx came crashing down on the site, demolishing the guard tower and spraying blue blood everywhere. I'm honestly a little bit confused about this clue. I'm guessing that the clue here is the miniature sphinx, but I have absolutely no idea whose profile this points to. On the other side of town, things were no less gruesome. Contrary to the warnings of the new town leaders, Fulgrim decided to ignore safety and take a hike in the meadows nearby. But the air was dry, and Fulgrim began to sneeze. After blowing his nose and drinking some water, he decided that maybe it was time to go home. After all, it was very late at night, and he had to get up to go to work the next day. As Fulgrim headed back through the meadows, he began seeing white particles drifting through the air and began to sneeze more. Realizing that the particles were likely the cause of his recent sneezing, he decided to breathe into his sleeve and quickly get back home. But the damage had already been done. Fulgrim slowly began to feel lightheaded, and fainted as he stumbled on a tree root just feet away from the town perimeter. Unfortunately, he would never wake up again. This mafia appears to be killing with the white particles, of course. I would guess that the particles are anthrax or something like that, or it could be some kind of pollen or allergies? d3_crescentia was getting ready for bed, when he heard some strange noises outside. It seemed at first that some bickering had broken out. When he walked outside, he heard some cursing, and shouting. Puzzled, d3_crescentia went to investigate. As it turns out, the man who was being yelled at had scrawled graffiti all over the man’s house. d3_crescentia attempted to intervene, but a cold menacing glare came over the duo’s faces. Before d3_crescentia could cry for help, a pan was flung into his face, knocking his teeth into his brain. d3_crescentia died soon after from internal bleeding in the brain. I would guess that this mafiaso isn't necessarily a team person or someone that has multiple people in their profile, but has more to deal with the pan that was flung into the face. What kind of person tends to throw pans, however, I do not know. I would say a Upon examination of BloodyC0bbler’s corpse the next morning, an autopsy found a strange sight, as it appeared that BloodyC0bbler had not died from the falling sphinx, but from a metal pike that protruded out of his stomach. The whole town was filled with shock and fear as the new mayor, redtooth, read out the inscription on the pike’s handle: “We invite you to make a holy pilgrimage to the town square today to offer a human sacrifice to the gods. That is all.” This is the most interesting part, I think. Why would BC's death be mentioned twice when none of the others are? The fact that there is a metal pike involved as opposed to the sphinx suggests that maybe BC was hit by both mafia. This would also likely account for the missing hit. As for whom the pike clue points too, I thought of Mystlord's profile picture, but I'm pretty sure that's a red herring as well. In any case, the best use of early round clues is to check back with dead mafia. I.e. if we find a dead mafia, we could hopefully track him to some of these clues to get an idea of Incognito's style. | ||
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Poland8075 Posts
Although, this could be an instance of chainsaw defense... | ||
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but sc2 > mafia game without ace drama | ||
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On February 19 2010 10:11 L wrote: OH HEY FUCKERS, WHAT ABOUT MY CLUE INTERPRETATION NOW? is this the first time you've been bragging about this? also, since Mystlord was confirmed scum, that puts Madnessman's chainsaw defense into the realm of scumtell... As for the mod kill, I'm guessing that Phujakawas /w/e his name is might be the person we're looking for in relation to the meadow/white powder clue. If that clue doesn't pop up again, we can be sure that it was the one that linked to him. The fact that we also got Mystlord now gives us an avenue to look for clues. But there's one more thing that we should go over, and that's Mystlord's interesting post, where he states how we should be careful for: Experienced Mafia know how to blend in with the town. They want to make the town believe that they are, first and foremost, one of them. For the past few days, we've been assuming that scum make mistakes or have a different play style than the town, but this assumption should only hold true for those nooby players. As of right now, we might like to play follow the leader with our best players, but at the same time, we're in the most danger of dying to these same players. The best players in mafia would, logically, be the ones that would best blend in with the crowd. So, the list: Ver L Zona Caller redtooth Infundibulum (list compiled off of my limited knowledge of who has played before) These people should be at the forefront of our list in terms of who to keep an eye on, especially since they'll probably be playing extremely town-like. Ver has claimed his innocence (which I believe), but I think it'd be prudent to keep a watch on everyone who is an experienced player. I'm looking at the list, and I am curious as to why a significant amount of other veteran players are not on the list. There are many other players that we should definitely keep an eye on, such as Chezinu, Opz, Lucas, Shikyo, Foolishness, nemy, and SugiraMidori, to name a few. But I'm not entirely sure why Zona is on the list. It may be that I just haven't really seem him play at all, but as far as I know he died night 2 in Incognito's game and that was about it. He also really hasn't contributed that much (although with SC2 activity has probably been killed, mostly). In any case, we should be highly suspect of this list since Mystlord put it out when his death was all but certain. I would personally suspect that at least one person on here is mafia. The other alternative for the list might be that these are suspects of Mystlord's family. In which case, we should knowingly keep this list in the back of our heads in the event that one mafia side appears to have an advantage over the other. If the Gambino side is winning, we can "remove" this list from our suspects. If the Sumiyoshi side is winning, we should definitely pay more attention to potential clues that we can connect to people on this list. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler dead townie citi.zen l10f meeple dead townie Ver Ace dead townie redtooth Bill Murray dead townie DoctorHelvetica dead sumiyoshi So now we're down to citi.zen, l10f, Ver, and redtooth. I'm betting at least one of these guys is scummy. I doubt it's Ver, redtooth's been afk, citi.zen's still been contributing, and l10f has been afk. meh I would contribute more but watching people play SC2 is just too big of a priority right now -_- maybe more thinking later | ||
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On February 21 2010 01:44 ~OpZ~ wrote: Change of rain? Old shack, but it's two story and the whole floor comes down? Panting, grunting, loud crash. This part made me think of Xelin, but not the rest. Mafia can bring down a whole floor using water and sewage? It happens rather quickly. For obvious Drainage and Sewage. Given how obvious clues have seemed. The cat obviously knocked over something. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Scamp It was raining earlier... Background light coming at her. Slowly. Floating, Radiant. The light was percieved as an Omen. It was charming. Also able to pierce skin. Laser? Fine pointed. Burned. The light is powerful. Given the rest of the blatanly obvious clues...Hi Shockey? (I keep championing his death, but I'd be wary of this.) The hawklike creature was large, dark, and scary. Nemy closed his eyes. Mafia can drop boulders. Screeches. Nemy thought he was safe, this probably isn't important, I just like the false sense of security. =P Flew accross the house with the impact, so it was very hard. I mean, I don't think a boulder would make you bounce, but he hit the roof beam. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=ohN For his quote. Mentions the sky, hiding, dropping. Leisurely. Comfortable. Sneaky, Hides to blend in with the river. He heard singing? (maybe this one is oHn? Who's the pic in Redtooth's profile? Madnessmen to.) ohn's music is trance. Pale man. Too the point. Wtf, ripping walls open again? Near the river side. Where'd the fork come from? Fork, It's dull? He's heavy. Crunching debris. How'd the tree fall? Was it planned? I dunno....Gotta be at work in 18 minutes. I'll come back to do the rest later. I get off in 8 hours though, 12 - 8. ~Opz always has good clue analysis. This is something that people should really, really pay attention too -_- | ||
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