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On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Thrawn
When I made that post, I was thinking along the lines of "I think sci's actions are looking pretty scummy." In my opinion, if he was trying to create a good town atmosphere in the start, he did a very poor job of doing so. That's why I was thinking (and still am) that sciberia is scum.
Okay. You thought his actions were scummy. Here is what you said:
On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive? I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game. Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.
You gave two interpretations of scib's play. The first being that he doesn't understand early game trolling, the second being that he's trying to rock the boat. I'm not sure how those two are different but that is not what I have issue with. The problem I see is that neither of those interpretations allow for you to, in your own words, "think sci's actions are looking pretty scummy." How is not being aware of early game trolling scummy? How is wanting to get discussion going early scummy? Both of those options seem to imply that you think he's town, which is the opposite of what you claimed your read on him at the time to actually be.
Scib, can you explain your intentions behind this post?
On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said. agree or disagree.
Were you trying to raise a legitimate concern about Corazon's post?
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post 10
Thrawn baby: De ja Vu all over again.
We might as well be masons + innocent childs 
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On November 20 2013 15:25 thrawn2112 wrote:*snip* Scib, can you explain your intentions behind this post? Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Moc obv town. Fuck da police! I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said. agree or disagree. Were you trying to raise a legitimate concern about Corazon's post?
post 12
Let me answer that for you:
"No Thrawn, I was not trying to raise legitimate concerns.
In fact I was trying to half-heartedly distance myself from my scum buddy"
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@Mocsta
You're wrong about me but I think you may very well be right about Cora. I resent that you stole my thunder though -- almost done a case on him.
@thrawn
I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.
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[Post 12b[/b]
@sci
Did you open my spoiler and read my grievances with you?
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@Moc
First of all, you skipped 11.
Second of all, are you trying to say that sciberia and I would be shit-flinging at each other in order to...bus each other? Gain town cred for after the lynch? I don't understand why you are trying to ship sciberia and I together.
If you didn't take a look at pregame, I made a bunch of comments about how towns self-destruct. As scum, I would let you guys shit-fight amongst each other and pick and choose my votes.
@sciberia
Put your vote where your mouth is.
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On November 20 2013 15:39 Mocsta wrote:
Post 12b
@sci
Did you open my spoiler and read my grievances with you?
I skimmed it but was more interested in your thoughts on Cora. I'll respond to your post in a bit.
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Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3
More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora.
In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now.
I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once.
And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
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On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote:
@thrawn
I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started.
That is a very interesting response. When I initially saw your first post I thought, "I like scib's post, it looks like he's trying to bait reactions or somesuch townie tactic because there is no way that he could actually be serious about this!" Here's why..
On November 20 2013 12:14 Bereft wrote:
THE POPO AINT SHUTTIN US DOWN
On November 20 2013 12:12 thrawn2112 wrote:true dat
These posts came before your comment on Mocsta. Aren't they both as "safe" and "trolly" as what Corazon did? Why did you decide that only Corazon deserved to be called out for what bereft and I also did?
One of your concerns with C's post is that it "echoes what Mocsta said." Typically a point like this can be valid when someone restates another's argument, and the reason why it would be scummy is because it means the person who "echoes" has to "echo" because they cannot produce content of their own. Are you really trying to suggest that Corazon didn't know what to say, so he decided to copy Mocsta, and is therefore scummy? That argument completely falls apart when you're talking about something so silly and non-alignment indicative as saying "fuck the police."
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Post 13
On November 20 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Moc
First of all, you skipped 11.
Duly Noted - hence 12b prior
Second of all, are you trying to say that sciberia and I would be shit-flinging at each other in order to...bus each other? Gain town cred for after the lynch? I don't understand why you are trying to ship sciberia and I together.
(1) I am not trying to say anything. I said exactly what I wanted to say.
(2) This is a very scummy response.
You do not actually retort anything I said; instead you try to brush it off by insinuating it is stupid/incorrect.
Guess what
I am not going to take that leap of faith, and I won't let the thread take that leap either.
If you didn't take a look at pregame, I made a bunch of comments about how towns self-destruct. As scum, I would let you guys shit-fight amongst each other and pick and choose my votes. Everyone has an ideal way they think they would ply their trade; yet, when push comes to shove so many things do not come to bear.
Translation:I don't really care what you think you would do pre-game BEFORE receiving a role PM.
What I care about is how you have played this game since AFTER receiving a role PM
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on Cora
+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said. agree or disagree. On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
I understand some people view early trolling as part of the game, however, I would think you do not fall into this category.
In fact, I would argue the above is completely out-of-character for a town Aquanim.
On November 20 2013 12:24 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town
De ja ducking vu explain. you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength. post 5Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya. I think if there are 3 scum. So far it'saquanim, sciberbia and you. On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
1) The first thing I want to emphasize is a point brought up by Bereft. Cora singled me out for stating preliminary reads on the first page, but glossed over Mocsta doing the same thing. This inconsistency is suspicious because it suggests that his problem wasn't with the stating of reads (in which case he should have been equally bothered by Mocsta), but rather with me specifically stating suspicion on him.
2) Next, I find suspicious Cora's early criticisms of my play. At first, the criticisms had a tone of "sciberbia's play is bad" (but not scummy).
+ Show Spoiler [neutral criticisms] +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!
mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other @thrawn You are masons? Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it. On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive? I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game. Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter.
I find criticism of "bad play" in the first couple pages suspicious in general. Scum find it tempting to discredit townies and promote a negative town atmosphere. Townies on the other hand are more likely to be in a joyous mood after receiving their role PM, rather than antagonistic.
3) But specific to Cora, I'm troubled by the fact that when questioned about these posts by Bereft, Aquanim, and Thrawn, he retroactively analyzes my previous posts as scummy, whereas before his comments were noncommittal criticisms. If he really found my first few posts so scummy, the noncommittal criticisms are very unnatural.
Originally he said this:
+ Show Spoiler [very alignment neutral] +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
But then later this when questioned by thrawn:
+ Show Spoiler [scummy] +On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Thrawn
In my opinion, if he was trying to create a good town atmosphere in the start, he did a very poor job of doing so. That's why I was thinking (and still am) that sciberia is scum.
So according to Cora, he was thinking that I was scum simultaneously as he was writing that you cannot find scum on the first page? That's a pretty blatant contradiction and it seems more likely one that scum would make than town.
I'd appreciate feedback on this case. I think it's the strongest one in the thread right now so
##Vote: cDgCorazon
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On November 20 2013 15:53 sciberbia wrote:on Cora+ Show Spoiler [quotes] +On November 20 2013 12:17 sciberbia wrote:I think Cora is most likely to be scum so far. His entrance to the thread is what I would describe as very 'safe'. It's trolly, ingratiating, and echoes what Mocsta already said. agree or disagree. On November 20 2013 12:06 Mocsta wrote:
I understand some people view early trolling as part of the game, however, I would think you do not fall into this category.
In fact, I would argue the above is completely out-of-character for a town Aquanim.
On November 20 2013 12:24 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:19 Bereft wrote:On November 20 2013 12:16 Mocsta wrote:
post 4
K thrawn is town
De ja ducking vu explain. you're going to burn through your posts really quickly if you write 1 to 2 liners and expect the rest of us to all be on your wavelength. post 5Scum like to interrupt town circles, so dial down the tone will ya. I think if there are 3 scum. So far it'saquanim, sciberbia and you. On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
1) The first thing I want to emphasize is a point brought up by Bereft. Cora singled me out for stating preliminary reads on the first page, but glossed over Mocsta doing the same thing. This inconsistency is suspicious because it suggests that his problem wasn't with the stating of reads (in which case he should have been equally bothered by Mocsta), but rather with me specifically stating suspicion on him.
2) Next, I find suspicious Cora's early criticisms of my play. At first, the criticisms had a tone of "sciberbia's play is bad" (but not scummy). + Show Spoiler [neutral criticisms] +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
On November 20 2013 12:44 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:43 sciberbia wrote:On November 20 2013 12:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Who wants a free town read? I've only got one, get it while supplies last! All you need to do is be the first to respond to this post!
mocsta is ineligible because him and I are already confirmed town to each other @thrawn You are masons? Thx for piggybacking on my post. I really appreciate it. On November 20 2013 12:57 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:
...
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
The way I see it, sciberbia analysing the first page at least gives us something to talk about. Why don't you think what he's doing is productive? I think it is sciberia either not understanding that the first page of a game is usually just joking around or he is trying to rock the boat ridiculously early in the game. Seeing as sciberia is not new to this game, I think it's the latter. I find criticism of "bad play" in the first couple pages suspicious in general. Scum find it tempting to discredit townies and promote a negative town atmosphere. Townies on the other hand are more likely to be in a joyous mood after receiving their role PM, rather than antagonistic.
3) But specific to Cora, I'm troubled by the fact that when questioned about these posts by Bereft, Aquanim, and Thrawn, he retroactively analyzes my previous posts as scummy, whereas before his comments were noncommittal criticisms. If he really found my first few posts so scummy, the noncommittal criticisms are very unnatural. Originally he said this: + Show Spoiler [very alignment neutral] +On November 20 2013 12:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
On that note, sciberia needs to stop analyzing the first page so hard and just discuss. We're not going to find scum on the first page. You guys just need to talk instead of being at each other's throats 30 minutes into the game.
But then later this when questioned by thrawn: + Show Spoiler [scummy] +On November 20 2013 13:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Thrawn
In my opinion, if he was trying to create a good town atmosphere in the start, he did a very poor job of doing so. That's why I was thinking (and still am) that sciberia is scum. So according to Cora, he was thinking that I was scum simultaneously as he was writing that you cannot find scum on the first page? That's a pretty blatant contradiction and it seems more likely one that scum would make than town.
I'd appreciate feedback on this case. I think it's the strongest one in the thread right now so ##Vote: cDgCorazon
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I'm going to bed.
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Post 14
@Thrawn:
What do you think of Rean response.
I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that.
I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is.
Hence, what is the point of the comment?
In short I see 3 outcomes of his post
+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 Rean wrote:Smartass comment that I couldn't resist: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:post 10 On November 20 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:post 12 consider getting one of these, you could use it :3 More seriously: Mocsta, good post by post analysis but I don't agree with it all. Your points on both Scib and Corazon make sense but I think you're falling into the "he must be scum so I'll try to interpret everything he says as scummy" trap a little with Cora. In particular: + Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 13:24 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 13:20 Aquanim wrote:
@Corazon
I'd like you to elaborate more on why you think sciberbia is scum. I don't entirely understand your argument at present. He's trying to get us to tunnel each other early so he can just sit around and piggyback on town lynches and point the finger at others. This is demonstrated when he essentially copies my post asking thrawn if he was a mason (deliberately, his post was at least 2-3 minutes after mine) and then decides that he can take my words and twist them when I pressure him about it. This is what troubles me about sciberia right now. seems like a legitimate point to me rather than a scum-slip. But it could be a way of distancing himself from Scib if he flips red. I also want to see Aquanim under a bit of pressure to see how he reacts but let's not do everything at once. And the lack of 5 people is rather disappointing still.
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
Look, I *could* see a town make this post, but I don't like how it talks about the "core" issues yet simultaneously avoids talking about the "core" issues??
Catch my drift?
P.S. Fuck da POLICE
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@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
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Scib, to further illustrate my point about why your point about Corazon "echoing" Mocsta is absurd, you need to only look at your own case against Corazon. Point #2 onwards is very much you "echoing" what I have already said that I found scummy about Corazon. Me, right now, mentioning that your case is an expanded version of my post is a correct way of using the "echoing another's post" argument as a point against some, not when it's about somebody saying "fuck the police."
So why did you think Corazon was scummy for ctrl+c/+v'ing what Mocsta said?
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 20 2013 15:50 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote:
@thrawn
I legitimately thought Cora was the scummiest person in the thread at the time (if by the tiniest of margins). My intention was mainly to get interesting discussion started. That is a very interesting response. When I initially saw your first post I thought, "I like scib's post, it looks like he's trying to bait reactions or somesuch townie tactic because there is no way that he could actually be serious about this!" Here's why.. Show nested quote +On November 20 2013 12:12 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 20 2013 12:00 Mocsta wrote:
post 1
Yo fuck the POLICE true dat These posts came before your comment on Mocsta. Aren't they both as "safe" and "trolly" as what Corazon did? Why did you decide that only Corazon deserved to be called out for what bereft and I also did? One of your concerns with C's post is that it "echoes what Mocsta said." Typically a point like this can be valid when someone restates another's argument, and the reason why it would be scummy is because it means the person who "echoes" has to "echo" because they cannot produce content of their own. Are you really trying to suggest that Corazon didn't know what to say, so he decided to copy Mocsta, and is therefore scummy? That argument completely falls apart when you're talking about something so silly and non-alignment indicative as saying "fuck the police."
@thrawn
I agree it's an extremely weak tell. It was the first page of the game so that's all you can expect.
Bereft's post is much more attention-grabby and less 'safe' than Cora's. If anything I leaned town on Bereft for his first post.
Your first post was slightly less blendy than Cora's and you followed it up with a natural question, so that was a point in your favor.
I'm not going to argue how Cora's first post makes him scum. That's just a silly argument. I just find it ever so slightly scummier than the other initial posts, so that's why I chose to single his out. I basically looked at all the opening posts and thought to myself, "Which of these might I post as scum if I was hoping to blend in and not draw attention?" and Cora's fit that description best.
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Post 15
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants. I can agree.
I think personally what started off as light distancing back-fired once others (read: town) called them out. Then their story just falls to pieces.
Having said that, I feel much more confident about Corazon being scum than Sciberbia.
Having said that , I am still very concerned that Sciberbia reacted to the "mason thing" the same way as Corazon. I truly think this is a legitimate point - even though its somewhat post-flip based.
@Sci
Point #1 is good
Point #2 I dont even understand what you are trying to suggest
Point #3 is good
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On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
Post 14
@Thrawn:
What do you think of Rean response.
I don't have a problem that he said I might be a touch tunneled. I would prefer town tell me that.
I am slightly concerned that it seems to be a big "+1" post and I dont really know what his stance is.
Hence, what is the point of the comment?
I came very close to writing out something very similar to what Rean said. I was also going to remind you of what you said about Cor's emotions. Be careful with that and I don't think I need to actually say what I'm thinking for you to know what I'm driving at. That is why I unvoted.
So nah, it didn't bother me too much. I get what you're saying but I'm not holding it against him because it's something I would tell you if we were masoned.
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On November 20 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:
(A) Discredit me slightly - which is OK, the problem is the non-firm opinion on Corazon or Sciberbia
(B) Subtlely sway convo to Aquanim - again this could be OK in isolation, but I dont like with (A)
(C) Comment about lack of followup from 5 people.
B and C are there as a reminder. Aquanim feels to me like he's getting by too comfortably, but for now its a small lean towards scum as opposed to Corazon/Scib feeling much more scummy to me.
And I'm not discrediting you, I want to warn you not to tunnelvision. Tunnelvision impairs you from thinking logically and it's lost me games in the past because I was convinced I was right and tried to make everything seem as if I was. Maybe that's why I seem non-commital, I don't want to repeat the same mistake. You're right that C/S are acting dodgy but don't close your mind.
On November 20 2013 15:57 Aquanim wrote:
@Mocsta
If Corazon and sciberbia are both scum, what was their motive for going after one another as they have so early? It's focused a lot of attention on the two of them, and I can't imagine that being what scum wants.
@Rean
Why do you want to see me in particular pressured?
To me you look like you're in the position that if I were scum I'd love: sit back, ask some questions, give some non-commital opinions from time to time and earn easy town credit while not under any real pressure.
So one of your questions back at you: if you had a vig shot that only hit scum, who would you aim it at right now and why?
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After that last post from rean I take back some of what I said in my last post.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/4t8oM40)
