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On October 10 2012 05:23 Z-BosoN wrote:
But his no-lynch thing actually left us out of mylo.
I honestly just took it as a lapse in his brain.
I also didn't get the scum motivations for him saying "I wouldn't mind a no-lynch" in his post. When I read it, afterwards I just assumed that he went full retard for whatever reason. Why wouldn't a scum safely lynch his top read and make town go into mylo?
I had no idea Stutters would get mod killed.
Edit: If I knew that I would've pushed Debears.
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I can write up a summary of how I could've been caught no problem :p A lot of it brought up by Debears and Boson.
Association with Kush:
The way he talked to me stuck out. I don't think this by itself would hold much weight though.
Overconfidence:
This is something I didn't really think was much different from my XXVII meta (aside from with Kush). It's possible I just didn't realize it myself.
Time and indecision
This was most certainly a big scum tell. I kind of felt guilty and had to say that I would do stuff and I wouldn't do this as town. Not sure if this is a universal scum tell but for me it certainly is.
Open-ended answers
I feel like this was the only point Debears brought up that wasn't valid.
Contributions
I definitely contributed more with original cases in XXVII whereas in XXVIII I did a lot of sheeping. Big tell.
The lynch or lack thereof
Probably the biggest scum tell of them all. Debears should've pushed more on this in his case.
Going to sleep
Why on earth would I go to sleep 30 minutes before my #1 scum read is about to get killed and win us the game? I was legitimately exhausted having only slept 2 hours but that doesn't matter. Big brain fart that could've been pushed more.
Overconfidence wrt Kush
The best new point made by Boson, certainly true.
Me bussing Kush after Stutters attacks him
I was planning to bus Kush before Stutters made that case. I cursed that Stutters got there before me. I think any scum should bus Kush asap in that situation (but in a less obvious way than I did) because it's obvious he'll get lynched if not d1 most likely d2. I don't think Stutters deserved as much town cred because I think he'd go for the bus as well, but I didn't want to point it out because it'd remove my own town cred :p
Why I fucked up at the d3 lynch
1) I had figured out Djo was cop and I wanted to NK him instead because that way it'd be more difficult to track his peeks and for some reason I thought pushing his lynch (which was what I'd do as townie) would make me look bad when he claims. That was obviously terrible reasoning.
2) When Omni was about to get mod killed, for whatever reason I thought I would look less suspect not pushing for an additional mislynch. So both fuck-up 1) and 2) was based on me deliberately not acting like I would've as townie because for some reason I thought it would make me look bad. Big fuck up.
3) It also crossed my mind that I wouldn't mind having Debears still in the game, but I don't think it was the main reason (I didn't think Stutters would get mod killed, that would've changed things).
4) I hadn't thought about lynching Debears so that part was true and I choose to stick to it, but the obvious reason I hadn't thought of lynching Debears is because I was scum :p
In the end I fucked up in many ways, but I think I probably would've gotten away with it if it hadn't been for my huge d3 meltdown.
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GG. SDM. I think you still had a great shot to win this. But i can understand why you conceded. Well done debears and Z-Boson for finding the last scum.
SDM played a hell of a game. Really impressed. It must of been difficult to solo an entire game.
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I played bad and I should feel bad.
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Three things I learned from this game:
1. As scum in pressured situations, just do whatever you would've done as town and don't start fucking WIFOM yourself.
2. What Debears said: If something doesn't make any sense from a town perspective, it's scummy. You don't need to know the exact motivations.
3. If you're an aggressive townie (like DP and Boson in this game or me in XXVII), don't be suspicious of players who get in your way. The last thing I wanted was to in your way, be suspicious of the cockriders. In XXVII I got suspicious of Debears immediately jumping mine (and thrawn's) case on Sharrant, but I was so fucking proud of my Sharrant case that I decided not to care about it. The same thing happened early on in this game.
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@SDM
Hell of a game as scum. Yeah if you lynched me d3 you would've most likely had it in the bag. I was actually afk during the last 10-20 minutes of that lynch (or hour and 20) so I was fully expecting to be lynched. When it was you that didn't put in the final vote, everything just clicked cuz I know you are way better than that as town 
Also, the open ended answers thing was something I believed I notice in ver's XXX analysis. On the posts I quoted you just ran in a circle with your thought and didn't really make a statement. I might be wrong on this. Marv or Hapa any input on that point?
@everyone
GG! GJ DP (I'm still pissed at myself since you caught onto kush way before me :/ Hell of a job with the d1 lynch), Z-Bo (way to close it out), and the rest of town!
Thanks to prplhz and thrawn for hosting. Thanks marv for the advice!
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Also, the open ended answers thing was something I believed I notice in ver's XXX analysis. On the posts I quoted you just ran in a circle with your thought and didn't really make a statement. I might be wrong on this. Marv or Hapa any input on that point?
This tell more plays to a larger "scum mentality" of being indecisive and not wanting to contribute, rather than being an individual tell. Townies are capable of circular/questionable logic, and you have to take into account the context of someone's play. For example, Alsn made some really long post that was really long-winded and didn't say much, however, that wasn't a scumtell because of the rest of his play. He was putting in a lot of effort, and that post (while sparse in substance) was a really "try-hard" sort of post.
But as I talked about in the obs QT, SDM's #1 tell was his D3 lynch actions. There was absolutely no reason he should have done what he did as town. I'll write up something tomorrow in more detail.
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I really enjoyed my first game so I would like to thanks everyone for playing, hosting and coaching.
I'm a little disapointed that all my scum reads were wrong and that SDM picked me up as the cop during D3.
I've learned that I shouldn't WIFOM myself into oblivion and I should scumhunt more.
In this game, showing survival instinct was a good scum tell (and cop tell) but I didn't pay attention to it.
I hope to improve for my next games and that I could play with you again
Props to SDM for playing alone this whole time ^^
Props to debears for his patience when I was building pure WIFOM cases against him
Thank you everyone !
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I should also be carefull of confirmation bias...
I was having town confirmation bias for the other newbies and scum confirmation bias for debears and Shady at the end.
My conviction of deabears being scum has really dropped during D3 but I was getting lazy at this time and I didn't think through all the implications, mainly the possibility for a bus and a setup.
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On October 10 2012 09:06 debears wrote:@SDM Hell of a game as scum. Yeah if you lynched me d3 you would've most likely had it in the bag. I was actually afk during the last 10-20 minutes of that lynch (or hour and 20) so I was fully expecting to be lynched. When it was you that didn't put in the final vote, everything just clicked cuz I know you are way better than that as town Also, the open ended answers thing was something I believed I notice in ver's XXX analysis. On the posts I quoted you just ran in a circle with your thought and didn't really make a statement. I might be wrong on this. Marv or Hapa any input on that point?
I agree those type of posts are scummy as hell (putting a thought out there without having an opinion about it yourself, letting others draw the conclusions). I tried to stay away from making them because it's really tempting as scum. I just didn't think they were clear example of such posts. Well, the first one is, but making one such post over the span of the game isn't scummy imo.
And yeah, thanks to the hosts and Hapa. If it hadn't been for Hapa I would've truly gone insane in the QT.
Oh, and the biggest brain-fuck in the game for me was deciding on the n2 NK. I knew either Boson was vet or DP was medic, but I couldn't know which. Then Boson and DP starting talking about blue roles and I WIFOM my way into NKing DP, which was still a kind of a lucky shot.
I also framed Boson n2 so if Djo would've gone ahead with his idea of checking him we would've had a funny d3 where Djo claims cop and peeking Boson scum and Boson counterclaiming vet. No idea what wuold've come out of that :p
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On October 10 2012 09:34 Djodref wrote:
I really enjoyed my first game so I would like to thanks everyone for playing, hosting and coaching.
I'm a little disapointed that all my scum reads were wrong and that SDM picked me up as the cop during D3.
I actually got you right for the wrong reason. It's actually hilarious how wrong I was while still getting it right. For various reasons I managed to narrow down possible cops to either you, Omni or Remedy. Basically you being so apologetic was why I started suspecting you over the others. After that, this is what went down in the QT (I'm mostly talking to myself here):
Now I'm pretty sure Djo is cop. I've been sure before though. But Shady stumbles into the thread with a half-assed post and 30 mins later Djo is on his cock. Djo peeked Corrosion n1 and Omni n2.
He alsos refuses to take a stance on Omni until he gets back. My prediction is that if Omni comes back, he'll buy his arguments straight off. If he doesn't, Djo doesn't have to look weird trying to defend him.
Best case scenario is Omni modkilled and Shady lynched. Djo probably wouldn't claim and I can kill him n3. That would leave only one confirmed townie.
Djo confirmed cop.
Super-duper-confirm. He peeked Shady n1, Shady tells cop to peek Remedy or Omni n2, Djo peeks Omni.
Now I can't decide on if I want to jump the Djo wagon. I'm 4000% sure he's cop.
"Let's just assume that Omni, SS and me are town. Who is going to be your next scumread ? "
Subtle cop is subtle.
WTF he had checked Remedy
I got the correct cop but none of the checks I thought he did matched xD
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sonic it was so hard watching you talk yourself into targeting the vet n1..
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On October 10 2012 09:59 thrawn2112 wrote:
sonic it was so hard watching you talk yourself into targeting the vet n1..
Lol, if that was hard to watch, what about my analysis afterwards? :p
Trololol, Darth medic?
Darth medic!
Itchy scratchy, must kill Darth.
Fuck me.
I'm going crazy having no one to talk with. Darth must be medic or JK.
Or did I just get jailkept?
I wouldn't get a notification right?
Holy mother of God.
More likely Boson got saved.
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On October 10 2012 09:34 Djodref wrote:I really enjoyed my first game so I would like to thanks everyone for playing, hosting and coaching. I'm a little disapointed that all my scum reads were wrong and that SDM picked me up as the cop during D3. I've learned that I shouldn't WIFOM myself into oblivion and I should scumhunt more. In this game, showing survival instinct was a good scum tell (and cop tell) but I didn't pay attention to it. I hope to improve for my next games and that I could play with you again Props to SDM for playing alone this whole time ^^ Props to debears for his patience when I was building pure WIFOM cases against him Thank you everyone !
All your scum reads were wrong? Dude, look at me!
I've successfully led lynches against 2 townies and a cop whilst thinking the scum was a town read all game long and not wanting to lynch the first scum in day one.
The only correct read I've made wasn't even mine.
Was good for me to realize that I was finding people scum for the wrong reasons, and what kind of things I should be looking for.
Gonna tackle Liquid City now ;D
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Basically anything in the QT must've been painful to read.
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On October 10 2012 10:09 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 09:34 Djodref wrote:I really enjoyed my first game so I would like to thanks everyone for playing, hosting and coaching. I'm a little disapointed that all my scum reads were wrong and that SDM picked me up as the cop during D3. I've learned that I shouldn't WIFOM myself into oblivion and I should scumhunt more. In this game, showing survival instinct was a good scum tell (and cop tell) but I didn't pay attention to it. I hope to improve for my next games and that I could play with you again Props to SDM for playing alone this whole time ^^ Props to debears for his patience when I was building pure WIFOM cases against him Thank you everyone ! All your scum reads were wrong? Dude, look at me! I've successfully led lynches against 2 townies and a cop whilst thinking the scum was a town read all game long and not wanting to lynch the first scum in day one. The only correct read I've made wasn't even mine. Was good for me to realize that I was finding people scum for the wrong reasons, and what kind of things I should be looking for. Gonna tackle Liquid City now ;D
Lol, I feel you. The only way I ever make a correct read is if I know everyone's alignment :p
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On October 10 2012 10:09 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 09:34 Djodref wrote:I really enjoyed my first game so I would like to thanks everyone for playing, hosting and coaching. I'm a little disapointed that all my scum reads were wrong and that SDM picked me up as the cop during D3. I've learned that I shouldn't WIFOM myself into oblivion and I should scumhunt more. In this game, showing survival instinct was a good scum tell (and cop tell) but I didn't pay attention to it. I hope to improve for my next games and that I could play with you again Props to SDM for playing alone this whole time ^^ Props to debears for his patience when I was building pure WIFOM cases against him Thank you everyone ! All your scum reads were wrong? Dude, look at me! I've successfully led lynches against 2 townies and a cop whilst thinking the scum was a town read all game long and not wanting to lynch the first scum in day one. The only correct read I've made wasn't even mine. Was good for me to realize that I was finding people scum for the wrong reasons, and what kind of things I should be looking for. Gonna tackle Liquid City now ;D
About time 
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On October 10 2012 09:34 Djodref wrote:I really enjoyed my first game so I would like to thanks everyone for playing, hosting and coaching. I'm a little disapointed that all my scum reads were wrong and that SDM picked me up as the cop during D3. I've learned that I shouldn't WIFOM myself into oblivion and I should scumhunt more. In this game, showing survival instinct was a good scum tell (and cop tell) but I didn't pay attention to it. I hope to improve for my next games and that I could play with you again Props to SDM for playing alone this whole time ^^ Props to debears for his patience when I was building pure WIFOM cases against him Thank you everyone !
if you feel like playing in 2 games at once there's another newbie that just opened up
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Awww rly? I just signed up for bugs mini
Maybe ill just concentrate less on the newbie
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Post-Game Summary:
Early Day 1: kushm4sta Scumslips
Day 1 was largely defined by DarthPunk catching kushm4sta with a huge scumslip. In fact, I could say this play defined the entire game because scumhunting for the next few days was entirely directed by player's reactions to the slip.
On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote:@Kush thank you now I won't be nk Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk.
The significance of the slip was well pointed out in the thread - kush should not have known that DP was town. Some players were initially very hesitant to suspect kush due to his meta, and I agree that kush could be capable of making these types of posts as town. However, perhaps more incriminating was his reaction to suspicion against him; he whined and overreacted with only a few votes on him. This marked the death of scum #1, and the actions of the day pretty much "confirmed" DP, Stutters, and SDM as "town."
SDM looked "townie" for his very quick and decisive bus on kush, being among the first to vote him and push his case. In a normal situation, it would be very odd for scum to bus a teammate so early in the game. However, this is was a normal situation, and SDM's "quick vote" on kush should have been a null tell at best! Think about this situation from a mafia perspective: you're mafia, you know alignments and your teammate just scum-slipped hard (and got called out for it). It is extremely logical for you (mafia) to bus quickly and decisively in this situation. Very few mafia here will be indecisive - they know their teammate is scum and will have no issue getting rid of a liability to the team in order not to look suspicious. Bussing here is a very natural play that SDM was somehow given town-credit for.
...but more importantly, indecisiveness in this situation (obvious scum) is actually a town tell! While scum will be decisive, less-experienced townies probably won't understand the significance and won't know what to do! Townies are much more likely to be indecisive here, yet this was viewed as a scumtell and defining suspicions for the next few days.
Note: It was fairly clear that SDM was much more inactive and "detatched" from the game compared to his D1 play as town in Newbie XXVII. You'll notice that SDM really never pushed an original case in the mid-game. He took advantage of his situation and fanned the flames of popular mislynches in the town. Debears' case highlights this very well.
Day 2 - Town on Town Violence
Town's D2 focus was on Alsn and Debears, primarily for their indecisiveness during the kush lynch. They were two active, yet inconsistent players who attracted a lot of attention post-lynch. As a general thing to remember: indecisiveness/inconsistency is NOT necessarily scummy. Townies are naturally suspicious of other players, and their lack of information can sometimes to indecisiveness. Newbie townies are particularly prone to inconsistency, as newer players often don't articulate their thoughts as well as others.
Lynching the active and indecisive player ends up as a mislynch 99% of the time. This is because mafia don't necessarily behave like this - mafia's natural impulse is to blend in and contribute as little as possible. Players drawing attention to themselves should rarely be considered attractive lynch targets, yet the town was focusing on these very players on D2.
As a general note on town-tells... you want to look for effort and town-mentality when deciding who and who isn't town. Players putting in a lot of effort into the game (and in particular, effort into scumhunting and writing cases) are usually town. Players attracting attention to themselves, not caring about suspicion on them, thinking like a townie (no extra information) ... can be thought of as exhibiting "town-mentality." These were town-tells very clearly on display by all the lynch candidates on D2. Unfortunately, due to a bad town-read on SDM, town didn't have much choice but to mislynch Alsn.
Day 3 - The No-Lynch
Town got a bit lazy after the leshrac modkill, which was a bit distressing. The last scum is by far the hardest to catch, especially if they have no connections with other players. Instead, Day 3 started similarly - townies were lined up for mislynches due to their "indecisiveness" and "inconsistency." However, all of this changed near the lynch-deadline with a series of claims (Djodref, Z-Boson) and modkills (Omni, Stutters) leaving the town in a quick scramble for a lynch candidate. It's here that SDM made his fatal mistakes, and he should have been instalynched on D4 for these egregious scumtells.
1) SDM's Lynch Apathy:
It was pretty clear that SDM really didn't care who got lynched on D3. A townie would be very emotional and trying to get their top scumread lynched in a last-minute scramble. SDM was the complete opposite - he explicitly mentioned that debears was "next on his list" to lynch, yet inexplicably didn't mind a no-lynch. This is inexplicable from a town-perspective, especially since SDM is a good player. Read pages 6-7 of his filter to see just how little he cares about the lynch.
But after talking about how he didn't mind a no-lynch, after the town actually no-lynches, he does a complete emotional 180:
On October 06 2012 05:21 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
WTF
He posts this seconds after the no-lynch: he shouldn't mind this result judging from his previous postings, yet all of a sudden he cares? Scumtell here.
2) The "No-Lynch"
It's also worth to consider the no-lynch from a mafia perspective. At first glance, the no-lynch looks bad for mafia since it makes mafia's task more difficult. It would have been 3:1 town-to-mafia ratio today if debears got lynched - a MYLO situation - as opposed to 4:1 today, requiring mafia to nail two mislynches as opposed to 1 (unless the town no-lynches in mylo).
However, the big thing to consider is how little sense the no-lynch makes from a town perspective A town player would have lynched debears in a heartbeat unless they strongly thought debears was town. SDM clearly didn't make a case for debears to be town, nor had any reasoning to think so. It's not enough to consider what could have happened; you have to focus on what actually happened and if it makes sense from a town-perspective.
Note: Z-Boson's veteran claim was excellent. He played it exactly as he should have, keeping mafia guessing about blue-roles in the town, and claiming in a situation where it was very clear he couldn't be lying. People should have believed Z-Boson's claim right away (which most did). It would make no sense for him to fake-claim as mafia, since it would only take another blue-claim by any player to get him lynched.
Day 4 - Motherfucking Debearsssssssss
Debears immediately realized SDM's strange actions an excellent case on him - one of the best I've seen in a newbie game. Nitpicking: while a good case, he should have focused more on the really scummy parts of SDM's play (the D3 no-lynch) as opposed to writing a huge wall-o-text case on him. Very simply, everyone thought he was scum, and no one's going to have the patience to read a giant case posted by their top scumread.
Debears could have pushed SDM's no-lynch actions a bit harder, but what he did was alright too. His case was out there, and all he needed to do was die for town to take him seriously. SDM was in terrible shape when debears flipped town and conceded shortly after.
Awards
Town MVP is debears
Caught the last scum and defended himself throughout the game. Great casewriting, great defense, great activity... very solid performance.
Scum MVP is SDM
Obvious, but it's worth emphasizing just how well SDM played throughout the game. He didn't make any visible scumslips until the D4 lynch, and he had the town running in circles for most of the game.
Honorable Mention to DarthPunk
...for catching scum on D1 in record time!
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EPT
