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On August 08 2011 12:36 Devolved wrote:
Based on their last 15 tournament results, here are the top foreign Zergs' rankings:
1. Stephano (6 gold, 0 silver, 4 bronze, 5 non-placements)
2. Sen (3 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze, 7 non-placements)
3(tie). Dimaga (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
3(tie). Nerchio (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
5. Morrow (2 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 11 non-placements)
6. Idra (1 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 12 non-placements)
7. Ret (2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, 13 non-placements)
By your silly logic Goody has better results than MC and Nestea. These small online EU cups aren't worth as much not only because they are online, for 1 there are no koreans and 2 people are gonna be much more prepared and the competetion will be fiercer in a high stakes lan tourney.
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On August 08 2011 14:38 Nifel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 13:47 Hierarch wrote:On August 08 2011 12:36 Devolved wrote:
Based on their last 15 tournament results, here are the top foreign Zergs' rankings:
1. Stephano (6 gold, 0 silver, 4 bronze, 5 non-placements)
2. Sen (3 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze, 7 non-placements)
3(tie). Dimaga (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
3(tie). Nerchio (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
5. Morrow (2 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 11 non-placements)
6. Idra (1 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 12 non-placements)
7. Ret (2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, 13 non-placements) LAN tournament wins are worth a ton more than online cups are If you think nerves and stage fright should be accounted for yes. Otherwise I don't see why. Personally, I don't give a rats ass whether a tournament is online or LAN. The only thing LAN tournaments got over online tournaments are fan interaction and eSports building. Imoho. Anyway, if player A is superior to player B when allowed to play in a comfortable environment but breaks down in front of a crowd while player B can keep his cool, does that make player B the better player?
The quality of the opposition is guaranteed in a LAN, and the stakes are higher. Not everyone participates in the on-line tournaments. I'm not saying that the finishes that these players have in on-line tournaments -weren't- against good players, but you're more likely to hit more good players more frequently in a significant LAN event.
And yes, IM(O)HO, playing better under pressure and playing consistently well vs many good players in that environment does make you a better player. You're required to understand and use more strategies and execute them well despite adverse conditions (requiring again better understanding).
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On August 08 2011 14:21 forgottendreams wrote:In terms of just pure raw talent, my foreign zerg rankings (warning not based on results); 1. Sen 2. Nerchio 3. Morrow/Idra tied... 4. Stephano 5. ret 6. dimaga I'll probably receive a ton of flack for my rankings but frankly I don't care  I think nerchio is a bit unrefined and looked pretty nervous on stage which is logical being his first LAN event, I think he's only going to get better.
Ret a 5th for raw talent? O-o Allow me to say I disagree.
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On August 08 2011 16:52 IPA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 14:21 forgottendreams wrote:In terms of just pure raw talent, my foreign zerg rankings (warning not based on results); 1. Sen 2. Nerchio 3. Morrow/Idra tied... 4. Stephano 5. ret 6. dimaga I'll probably receive a ton of flack for my rankings but frankly I don't care I think nerchio is a bit unrefined and looked pretty nervous on stage which is logical being his first LAN event, I think he's only going to get better. Ret a 5th for raw talent? O-o Allow me to say I disagree.
Agreed with you, Ret should be right up top, probably only behind Sen.
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Gutted for Nani but its so damn hard to beat Zerg as Protoss atm, doesnt help its Nanis worst matchup eithier!!!
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On August 08 2011 16:37 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 12:36 Devolved wrote:
Based on their last 15 tournament results, here are the top foreign Zergs' rankings:
1. Stephano (6 gold, 0 silver, 4 bronze, 5 non-placements)
2. Sen (3 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze, 7 non-placements)
3(tie). Dimaga (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
3(tie). Nerchio (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
5. Morrow (2 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 11 non-placements)
6. Idra (1 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 12 non-placements)
7. Ret (2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, 13 non-placements) By your silly logic Goody has better results than MC and Nestea. These small online EU cups aren't worth as much not only because they are online, for 1 there are no koreans and 2 people are gonna be much more prepared and the competetion will be fiercer in a high stakes lan tourney.
My post had nothing to do with logic. I was just transcribing their results and ranking them based off of that. It was just an interesting little tidbit to think about. If I ranked them on who I thought was the best it would be quite different.
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Hey guys, I noticed that the VOD page provided by Blizzard has several broken links and, in the case of the latest matches, completely missing links. If you're interested as to why this happened, it appears that multiple people (or one forgetful person) uploaded the VODs and one of them began an index at 0 and another at 1, so some videos were overwritten by later additions and some (luckily) are just mislabeled/misplaced.
If a Round directs you to the TL home page, it doesn't exist in a way which I could find either due to the weird upload job or the set was just never played. Some games are mislabeled.
It appears that the broken/missing links are being fixed, so if one of my links stops working they probably got it correct on the VOD page itself, found here! Oddly, only match 2 of the finals has been uploaded as I type this and it's linked as game 1, so it might be a bit before they get it all working.
Championship Round 1
Naniwa vs Strelok
+ Show Spoiler +
Ret vs Tarson
+ Show Spoiler +
Championship Round 2
Naniwa vs Ret
+ Show Spoiler +
Thorzain vs Socke
+ Show Spoiler +
Championship Round 3
Ret vs Thorzain
+ Show Spoiler +
Consolation Round 1
Strelok vs Tarson
+ Show Spoiler +
Nerchio vs Whitera
+ Show Spoiler +
Consolation Round 2
Tarson vs Socke
+ Show Spoiler +
Consolation Round 3
Tarson vs Naniwa
+ Show Spoiler +
Consolation Round 4
Thorzain vs Naniwa
+ Show Spoiler +
Grand Final
Ret vs Naniwa
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 08 2011 01:21 BuddhaMonk wrote:
It's not annoying that they're cheering, it's annoying that they're cheering due to listening to Carmac, which we the video audience cannot see therefore it's a disconnect. They're not cheering the game, they're listening to Carmac and cheering what he's saying.
That is not exactly right, I was in Warsaw whole weekend and before grand finals started. Carmac "made a deal" with crowd that they cheer for both players as much as possible. He said something like that they should cheer for every scout, building and unit that was built. (or at least thats what i got with my bad understanding of polish) But during games Carmac was commentating games and he interact with crowd only during breaks.
Also I would like to say that atmosphere in Warsaw was amazing. People were really into games and Carmac just take advantage of that and hyped crowd even more. At I think Warsaw event is going to be only event where players get cheers for making gateway on 12 or spawning pool on 14 
I know this post is kinda late reaction on post from 100 pages earlier, but i just got back home and i wanna explain whole epic cheering situation during finals and whole tournament
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On August 08 2011 21:32 iref wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 01:21 BuddhaMonk wrote:
It's not annoying that they're cheering, it's annoying that they're cheering due to listening to Carmac, which we the video audience cannot see therefore it's a disconnect. They're not cheering the game, they're listening to Carmac and cheering what he's saying. That is not exactly right, I was in Warsaw whole weekend and before grand finals started. Carmac "made a deal" with crowd that they cheer for both players as much as possible. He said something like that they should cheer for every scout, building and unit that was built. (or at least thats what i got with my bad understanding of polish) But during games Carmac was commentating games and he interact with crowd only during breaks. Also I would like to say that atmosphere in Warsaw was amazing. People were really into games and Carmac just take advantage of that and hyped crowd even more. At I think Warsaw event is going to be only event where players get cheers for making gateway on 12 or spawning pool on 14 I know this post is kinda late reaction on post from 100 pages earlier, but i just got back home and i wanna explain whole epic cheering situation during finals and whole tournament
This is indeed true. Had Carmac realised what was happening he tried to calm the crowd down, but the troll mode was already on... We knew that our cheering made casting so much harder, but we had so much fun screaming at every building and unit produced. Truly epic.
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Ranking of Non Korean Zergs:
1-Sen
2-Ret
3-Idra/Dimaga/Stephano.
Idra is consistent in his LAN showings just not winning anything or getting top spots.
Dimaga is inconsistent in his LAN tournaments results. Sometimes Playing better then Sen, Ret and even Nestea but alot of times also playing pretty poorly .
Stephano said in his Grubby interview that he only Practices 2 Hours a day wtf? And he is this fcking good so if he plays more then he could surpass even Sen or the koreans.
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On August 08 2011 21:47 HaRxTears wrote:
Ranking of Non Korean Zergs:
1-Sen
2-Ret
3-Idra/Dimaga/Stephano.
Idra is consistent in his LAN showings just not winning anything or getting top spots.
Dimaga is inconsistent in his LAN tournaments results. Sometimes Playing better then Sen, Ret and even Nestea but alot of times also playing pretty poorly .
Stephano said in his Grubby interview that he only Practices 2 Hours a day wtf? And he is this fcking good so if he plays more then he could surpass even Sen or the koreans.
But IdrA plays in a lot more tournaments that has highcaliber koreans in than Dimaga and Stephano, and on average does way better in those tournaments.
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Why do you guys have to rank players? It doesnt mean anything. Only actual results do.
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On August 08 2011 17:51 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 16:37 Jinivus wrote:On August 08 2011 12:36 Devolved wrote:
Based on their last 15 tournament results, here are the top foreign Zergs' rankings:
1. Stephano (6 gold, 0 silver, 4 bronze, 5 non-placements)
2. Sen (3 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze, 7 non-placements)
3(tie). Dimaga (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
3(tie). Nerchio (4 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze, 10 non-placements)
5. Morrow (2 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 11 non-placements)
6. Idra (1 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze, 12 non-placements)
7. Ret (2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, 13 non-placements) By your silly logic Goody has better results than MC and Nestea. These small online EU cups aren't worth as much not only because they are online, for 1 there are no koreans and 2 people are gonna be much more prepared and the competetion will be fiercer in a high stakes lan tourney. My post had nothing to do with logic. I was just transcribing their results and ranking them based off of that. It was just an interesting little tidbit to think about. If I ranked them on who I thought was the best it would be quite different.
Yes there is a logic behind your reasoning and I also disagree with it. I would go so far as to claim that most people would disagree here.
It makes little sense to me to form a ranking by comparing results in tournaments disregarding the actual level of play within the individual tournaments. Either compare placements within tournaments that both players attended or compare how these players are doing at the highest level they play at. Just summing up tournament wins blindly will not give you a ranking that represents how strong they are compared to each other.
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On August 08 2011 21:40 Yoss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 21:32 iref wrote:On August 08 2011 01:21 BuddhaMonk wrote:
It's not annoying that they're cheering, it's annoying that they're cheering due to listening to Carmac, which we the video audience cannot see therefore it's a disconnect. They're not cheering the game, they're listening to Carmac and cheering what he's saying. That is not exactly right, I was in Warsaw whole weekend and before grand finals started. Carmac "made a deal" with crowd that they cheer for both players as much as possible. He said something like that they should cheer for every scout, building and unit that was built. (or at least thats what i got with my bad understanding of polish) But during games Carmac was commentating games and he interact with crowd only during breaks. Also I would like to say that atmosphere in Warsaw was amazing. People were really into games and Carmac just take advantage of that and hyped crowd even more. At I think Warsaw event is going to be only event where players get cheers for making gateway on 12 or spawning pool on 14 I know this post is kinda late reaction on post from 100 pages earlier, but i just got back home and i wanna explain whole epic cheering situation during finals and whole tournament This is indeed true. Had Carmac realised what was happening he tried to calm the crowd down, but the troll mode was already on... We knew that our cheering made casting so much harder, but we had so much fun screaming at every building and unit produced. Truly epic.
Yeah, that was one of the highlights of the event. It just made the game that much more exciting! Nowhere else will you see a crowd cheer for a creep tumor being placed.
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On the other hand, it was almost like on those loud korean VODs from SC1;P They also were screaming for every little detail in game;)
Good job there guys (and girls) ;P
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On August 08 2011 09:28 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 08:59 FairForever wrote:
But other than that... Idra has finished above Ret regularly everywhere (including the last two MLGs, most notably), and is doing better than Ret so far in the IPL. + Show Spoiler +I can't see how are those two actual arguments though.
Anaheim scenario: Idra has by far the easiest group and gets knocked out by Nani. Ret has a much harder group and gets knocked out by Ganzi. How is that an argument in favor of Idra?
IPL2 scenario: Idra played Drewbie, Minigun and moonan to get where he is. Ret played Select in the first round and Socke in the LB (and will play Fenix tonight). Again, how is Idra doing better here? His side of the bracket is basically a free ride for a player of his (alleged) level.
Don't bring up bare results without mentioning the circumstances.
Let me finish this off with:
Ret - 2 major LAN titles in 2011.
Sen - 0
Idra - 1 (only in 2010)
Dimaga - 1
You know Idra has repeatedly crushed Socke and SeleCT in most things he's played right?
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Just to throw something into the conversation, I wonder how good the Chinese player xigua is. I remember xiaot saying xigua was better than IdrA fairly recently.
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I hope you guys enjoyed our Banners on stream? 
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banneres were one of my favourite things. Loved the ones trolling WOW I laughed so hard when I saw "Cormac is in gold" one and his reaction. Also this was fun ![[image loading]](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/bart00l/IMG_0922.jpg?t=1312824384)
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EPT
