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NonY
8751 Posts
I was so very surprised when the period came at the end of his post because I was definitely expecting to read "Don't bother replying because I have no reading comprehension."  And it's great I can type this without fear of offending him since, if he even attempts to read this, he'll have no idea what I said and he'll probably reply with some more droning on about Koreans. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
On June 11 2008 01:50 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I havent bothered replying. I just like to laugh at morons You ignored the part where I said EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID WAS ALREADY MENTIONED AND DISCUSSED. YOU ARE SO FUCKING DUMB YOU DONT READ 10 PAGES OF A THREAD BUT SOMEHOW ASSUME THAT PEOPLE HAVENT COVERED THE "KOREANS ARE BETTER ARGUMENT." Fucking rofl. Go right a blog about how you watched great players play bw in the country you happened to live in. People seem to enjoy personal accounts of what they witnessed. Cause you are fucking bad at applying any kind of logic here. Really fucking bad. What other argument is there to discuss ? Wasn't your own op about how a white boy is going to win this WCG ? And Nony, weren't you the guy, who made that post full of shit, after getting your ass handled to yourself by draco, about how and why you're not the kind of dude who types "GG" ? I think I saw the two of you before... | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
Foreign players of my time weren't any where close to this childish attitude that would make a blizzard forum 13 year old poster actually look down on you like the last retard. How many "fucking" or "moron", caps and whatelse, contain every single of inc's post? As for you Nony, all you achieve with your half redundant broken syntax, is to actually sound like an arrogant and ignorant prick. Get real. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Boonbag is right, the "white boys" of his time like ilnp, NTT, Rekrul, HovZ etc.. never did anything bm. Hell, they were standup decent guys. In fact, had someone come up to them and said, "Hey, Koreans are better than white guys." At page 10 of a debate thread. They'd be like, "Y'know what? I value your opinion and think that is a great point. Guys, lets discuss how a professional broodwar gamer is typically better than an amatuer. Fuck the discussion about factors that may shrink the gap, lets run on wild conclusions that nobody is arguing for and make a very hollow discussion based on it!" But unfortuntunately for you, we are in contemporary times. Where fucking morons who have credentials from writing a blog about korean progamers get mocked when they are dumb. ESPECIALLY when they have the short-sightedness to defend their idiotic behavior. I'm gonna say it again, cause despite Nony's pestering about reading comprehension you have yet to wisen up. Here is why your post was dumb, pay close attention plz! The argument you made is 1. Bad, but most importantly 2. Already been said 30 times. Just like 20 or so of the other 30 I jumped on you cause the idea behind the argument is so fucking innane and so amazingly void of any thought that I have to take it upon myself to make that person feel my anger. You ignore this and allude that somehow my arguments are contentless. This is further proof you did not read the thread and MAYBE didnt even read my opening argument. Cause if you actually had an ounce of brain power in you you'd revert to that post and actually make connecting arguments instead of just asserting that what I am saying is that non koreans are suddenly better than professionals. Read this post very carefully. If you cannot argue with the points made in it back out of the thread and try again on some day when you aren't french. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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InlaDen
Afghanistan1 Post
hence they will rape you | ||
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bugblaster007
Canada24 Posts
Other personal picks would be Bisu, Mind or Jaedong | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
On June 11 2008 03:40 {88}iNcontroL wrote: NONY WE WON! HOLY SHIT YOU MUST BE FORUM POST KOREAN PROGAMAER :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO | ||
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berkguyyy
United States151 Posts
Now flame me if you want, but I'm writing this with honesty. First of all, I believe iNcontroL that you need to calm down and stop using the "Fuck" word and other insults. I'm not your mommy so you don't need to listen to me, but I'm just lettin ya know it's a bad habit to build up. It really does not accomplish anything other than just proving how low a person you are. It also takes away what little you have to say to others (usually not much just either patronizing or telling others to shut the hell up.) Not to mention, it was you who started this thread for the reason of "starting a discussion." Personally, if you began this thread to have a discussion, then I'd assume you'd take the responsibility to discuss and not insult. Yea, some posts are ignorant and some are dumb as hell from your point of view. However, at least they are discussing, which is what you wanted and what you got. Telling people to shut up is only hypocritical and contradicts the intent of your original post. If you don't like these additional posts then either ignore them or make it clear in your original post that you do not want any more discussion. You might argue that some people are repeating info blah blah blah blah, but that itself does not take away the fact that they are doing what you asked them to do which is discussing the issue. I could go on, but I came here mainly to discuss some of your statements in your original post. True, some of them have been brought up already by other people, but truthfully I never heard a real reply from you other than that they are stupid, they cannot comprehend, or that they are too stupid to comprehend. Anywho, now that I have probably left a bad taste in your mouth (again nothing personal) I'll talk about some of your points. I'll skip the LAN point right now and move on to the other points. Point 1: Inclusion of key nations. This argument is weak no matter how you slice and dice it. Somehow the Netherlands and other countries "considering" hosting a WCG gives us more players? You really need to elaborate on this and give us evidence. I can see how more players from the Netherlands and other countries might join if that country is nominated for the WCG, but I don't see how "considering" hosting a WCG makes such a huge difference that it forms the basis of your second point. Personally I have no idea what you mean by "key" nations. And your final point that having a WCG in Germany increases the chance of having more WCG in Europe is completely unsubstantiated. Either give us a link or some proof or you're just throwing things in our face. Point 2: Maps favor non-Koreans. You talk almost as if foreigners know Peaks/Tau/Gaia better than the Koreans, which is without evidence and highly doubtful. Now, if you were to say that foreigners are closer in knowledge to Koreans in Peaks/Tau/Gaia than Bluestorm than I'd agree with you. True the three maps you mention are out of date in Korea, but progamers have spent more hours on these maps than many of the foreigners have played starcraft. Not to mention, progamers have had the luxury of having these maps analyzed and picked down to the teeth while most foreigners mainly have only the VODs are resources. Again, I agree that foreigners are starting to know some of the maps better, but they have a long way to go before they overtake the Koreans in that field. Point 3: Korea has stagnated. I actually agree with this point although your wording is real strange. Instead saying Korea has stagnated (which implies that skill levels are not increasing anymore... complete BS) you should've written that Korea talent has become closer. However, what you just wrote actually kinda goes against your overall premise that foreigners have a better chance. If the Korean level has evened then suddenly the difference between a Bisu and low level pro Korean is not that big. Of course Bisu would be the better player, but not by much. So if that low level pro Korean somehow made it onto the WCG, then really the chance of a foreigner winning is not increased drastically because as you said Korea talent has become closer. Point 4: Level of play of foreigners has increased. I agree completely, but this point is nullified by the fact that the level of Koreans has increased just as much if not more. I look at games this year and last year, and the difference in play is noticeable. A few things I noticed about Koreans these days is that their mechanics are sensational and strategy is extremely tuned. Personally, I think out of all aspects of the game, it's the strategy part that the foreigners will lack. Indeed, the mental aspect of the game is an advantage that is underrated. Last Point: LAN. Again I agree with you that LAN access will help the foreigners. But truthfully I do not see where you somehow come to the conclusion the LAN access is the saving grace of foreigners. Okay I'm getting tired of writing so I'll write this quickly because it's been said before. If you think LAN will somehow be decisive factor in Starcraft then you're gravely underestimating the complexity of this game (with all due respect to you as I'm sure you are a great player). LAN will not help you deal with the deep strategy of this game such as timing and counter builds. It will not help you calm your nerves when all the pressure in the world is on you. It will have minimal impact on one's macro skills and split-time decision making. It will not help keep your emotions in check and keep your concentration from going haywire. Btw even with LAN, the foreigners would be extremely lucky to have the same micro as Koreans, who have had access to it for years now. Starcraft is first and foremost a strategy game. Only now is it clear that the mental aspect of this game triumphs over anything else. Koreans through years and years of training have started to tap into the mental aspect of this game, whereas foreginers are still behind. LAN has its uses, but it won't make a smidgen in the real difference between Koreans and foreigners... the mental side of the game (when I mean mental I'm talking about strategy, concentration, nerves, emotion, etc). So overall, I'm not here to bash foreginers. They have definitely improved and I will be cheering for them when the WCG starts. I expect some to defeat the Koreans and take a bronze or silver. However, if you compare the Koreans and foreigners overall there's a significant difference still. Foreigners are improving and getting closer to the Koreans, but I do not think they have improved enough to win the WCG. Btw, iNcontroL I find it funny that you tell others to not speak in absolutes when your entire first post is nothing but absolutes and some with very little evidence at that. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Since you took it upon yourself to tell me what I should and shouldn't do as a poster lemme return the favor. 1. I didnt start cussing people out here until it became abundanrly clear that despite my labored efforts to make this a discussion a lot of people seem to want to blurt out "koreans are better" and be done with this. That line of thinking ina debate thread triggers what some call "anger." A fun word to use when angry is "fuck." Does this make me a "low" person? Nope. It makes me angry. That is fine btw. Anger is actually accepted as an ok emotion. 2. Don't post in walls of text. Nobody except me is going to read that. And the only reason I read it is because I have nothing better to do while I wait for my pizza to heat up. And even then I skimmed it, didnt read it fully at all. 3. Telling someone to not speak in absolutes was obviously a paradoxical statement. I am absolutely saying speaking in absolutes is wrong. That paradox should have lead you to believe that perhaps I don't live up to my own standard 100% of the time. In fact I was probably only speaking about the relevant use of the absolute statement for which I referred to. But again, this requires a level of thought power usually lost on the typical poster here which you of course seem to be. In the future however, if someone says "shut up" they probably dont mean "for life." They just mean "what you are saying right now." Anyways, these kind of life lessons will work there way into your brain somehow, that or you will not make it as a human being. Whichever comes first! 4. I'd love to discuss the points of my arguments with you but I am not reading that wall of text for an argument. If you want to make it into an actually readable formate go ahead. But until then it will get ignored. | ||
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Ghin
United States2391 Posts
you say you want a discussion and then you ridicule the people who post and avoid discussion | ||
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berkguyyy
United States151 Posts
Your point 3 only further substantiates just how low a person you are. You just cannot help yourself in insulting someone which I am sure you enjoy. Not to mention, the onus is on you, not me, to make your statements clear to understand. Lack of clarity is usually not a fault of the reader but of the writer. Of course, knowing your type you'll keep blaming others for their "stupidity" instead of acknowleding yours. I'm not the first one to comment on your lack of clarity, and I'm probably not gonna be the last. Btw, here's the format if you want to read, although i meant it for mainly others to read. Feel free to read it, but I'm not dying here waiting for you to reply. Point 1: Inclusion of key nations. This argument is weak no matter how you slice and dice it. Somehow the Netherlands and other countries "considering" hosting a WCG gives us more players? You really need to elaborate on this and give us evidence. I can see how more players from the Netherlands and other countries might join if that country is nominated for the WCG, but I don't see how "considering" hosting a WCG makes such a huge difference that it forms the basis of your second point. Personally I have no idea what you mean by "key" nations. And your final point that having a WCG in Germany increases the chance of having more WCG in Europe is completely unsubstantiated. Either give us a link or some proof or you're just throwing things in our face. Point 2: Maps favor non-Koreans. You talk almost as if foreigners know Peaks/Tau/Gaia better than the Koreans, which is without evidence and highly doubtful. Now, if you were to say that foreigners are closer in knowledge to Koreans in Peaks/Tau/Gaia than Bluestorm than I'd agree with you. True the three maps you mention are out of date in Korea, but progamers have spent more hours on these maps than many of the foreigners have played starcraft. Not to mention, progamers have had the luxury of having these maps analyzed and picked down to the teeth while most foreigners mainly have only the VODs are resources. Again, I agree that foreigners are starting to know some of the maps better, but they have a long way to go before they overtake the Koreans in that field. Point 3: Korea has stagnated. I actually agree with this point although your wording is real strange. Instead saying Korea has stagnated (which implies that skill levels are not increasing anymore... complete BS) you should've written that Korea talent has become closer. However, what you just wrote actually kinda goes against your overall premise that foreigners have a better chance. If the Korean level has evened then suddenly the difference between a Bisu and low level pro Korean is not that big. Of course Bisu would be the better player, but not by much. So if that low level pro Korean somehow made it onto the WCG, then really the chance of a foreigner winning is not increased drastically because as you said Korea talent has become closer. Point 4: Level of play of foreigners has increased. I agree completely, but this point is nullified by the fact that the level of Koreans has increased just as much if not more. I look at games this year and last year, and the difference in play is noticeable. A few things I noticed about Koreans these days is that their mechanics are sensational and strategy is extremely tuned. Personally, I think out of all aspects of the game, it's the strategy part that the foreigners will lack. Indeed, the mental aspect of the game is an advantage that is underrated. Last Point: LAN. Again I agree with you that LAN access will help the foreigners. But truthfully I do not see where you somehow come to the conclusion the LAN access is the saving grace of foreigners. Okay I'm getting tired of writing so I'll write this quickly because it's been said before. If you think LAN will somehow be decisive factor in Starcraft then you're gravely underestimating the complexity of this game (with all due respect to you as I'm sure you are a great player). LAN will not help you deal with the deep strategy of this game such as timing and counter builds. It will not help you calm your nerves when all the pressure in the world is on you. It will have minimal impact on one's macro skills and split-time decision making. It will not help keep your emotions in check and keep your concentration from going haywire. Btw even with LAN, the foreigners would be extremely lucky to have the same micro as Koreans, who have had access to it for years now. Starcraft is first and foremost a strategy game. Only now is it clear that the mental aspect of this game triumphs over anything else. Koreans through years and years of training have started to tap into the mental aspect of this game, whereas foreginers are still behind. LAN has its uses, but it won't make a smidgen in the real difference between Koreans and foreigners... the mental side of the game (when I mean mental I'm talking about strategy, concentration, nerves, emotion, etc). So overall, I'm not here to bash foreginers. They have definitely improved and I will be cheering for them when the WCG starts. I expect some to defeat the Koreans and take a bronze or silver. However, if you compare the Koreans and foreigners overall there's a significant difference still. Foreigners are improving and getting closer to the Koreans, but I do not think they have improved enough to win the WCG. Btw, iNcontroL I find it funny that you tell others to not speak in absolutes when your entire first post is nothing but absolutes and some with very little evidence at that. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On June 12 2008 04:29 Inladen wrote: Koreans are better at playing Starcraft then people outside of Korea hence they will rape you QFT | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
2. you agree with me but are confused by the wording. Yet you manage to reach the conclusion that I was arguing for, splendid. 3. Again the wording is evidently confusing for you yet you manage to get to the conclusion I argue for. Wonderful. 4. You agree but then artificially argue that koreans have actually gotten better at a higher rate than non koreans. You then cite that their level of play is phenominal, which is of course, that idiocy I was mentioning earlier. You claim I have no evidence yet the evidence you site is "koreans play good" wow. Thanks for that. 5. You agree fully with this but then state that you dont know how big of an impact this will have. You then go on to presume I don't understand this game and start to lecture me with "well the game is more complex than just having lan settings." I cannot take a person serious that honestly thinks they are somehow revealing some profound truth. I have played this game for 12 years. I am going to assume that is a lot longer than you. Even if it somehow isnt my level of play and tha amount of time I have spent in those years surely remove any doubt that of the two of us I am the authority and you are the casual onlooker. Let's just for a second assume I understand the game beyong "lan settings." the overall point: you didnt respond to my point here. It's a good one because I explain the important life lesson about paradoxical statements. Check it out, its a good read. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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berkguyyy
United States151 Posts
1. you evidently dont know the foreign scene or how ret at wcg would be a big deal along with other top gamers. I know it quite well. You talk as if ret is the next coming of Christ. He's great but not better than some of the foreign gamers we have seen. Not to mention, you completely miss my point. Read it again. I commented primarily on your unsubstantiated claims about Netherlands considering WCG having such a major impact. Not to mention, I questioned how Germany hosting WCG some increases the chance of more WCG on Europe. You haven't responded at all to these points. 2. you agree with me but are confused by the wording. Yet you manage to reach the conclusion that I was arguing for, splendid. Wow not only can you not write, but you can't even read correctly what I wrote and what you wrote. Your wrote explicitly that "the maps favor non-Koreans." I disagreed with that and never in your post did you write anything remotely similar to my points. 3. Again the wording is evidently confusing for you yet you manage to get to the conclusion I argue for. Wonderful. Yes the wording is confusing because it doesn't connect with the point of your paragraph which is that Korea's talent is getting closer. You wrote that "Korea is stagnating" which is wrong and BS and I noted that. I'm not sure where you got the fact that I agreed with you when I wrote that this entire point you were making was not going to be a factor. Or to quote myself (sad I have to do this for you) "However, what you just wrote actually kinda goes against your overall premise that foreigners have a better chance." 4. You agree but then artificially argue that koreans have actually gotten better at a higher rate than non koreans. You then cite that their level of play is phenominal, which is of course, that idiocy I was mentioning earlier. You claim I have no evidence yet the evidence you site is "koreans play good" wow. Thanks for that. It's here you put words in my mouth. I said the Korean's have gotten better "if" not at a higher rate. My main premise was that your statement that foreigners have gotten better is nullfied by the fact that Koreans have gotten better. My claim that Koreans have gotten better has all the evidence in the world. And I mentioned about the Korean play to talk about the mental aspect of the game, which I said was the determining factor in the skill difference. Also, no where in the paragraph do I claim that you have no evidence, although in others I do and you still can't back it up. Okay next paragraph I'm gonna have to go sentence by sentence because you bring up quite a bit of points. 5. You agree fully with this but then state that you dont know how big of an impact this will have. (Only God knows where you got the fact I agreed with you fully) You then go on to presume I don't understand this game and start to lecture me with "well the game is more complex than just having lan settings." (I don't presume anything and I'm not lecturing you. I'm stating my own opinion) I cannot take a person serious that honestly thinks they are somehow revealing some profound truth. (It's more common sense really not to mention there's another thread on the mental aspect of the game that's quite a good read) I have played this game for 12 years. (Game came out in 1998. I cannot take seriously someone who lies and cannot do math) I am going to assume that is a lot longer than you. (Cannot debate that. Wish I could play starcraft in 1996.) Even if it somehow isnt my level of play and tha amount of time I have spent in those years surely remove any doubt that of the two of us I am the authority and you are the casual onlooker. ("Omniscent king") Let's just for a second assume I understand the game beyong "lan settings." (Your original post leads me to believe otherwise) the overall point: you didnt respond to my point here. It's a good one because I explain the important life lesson about paradoxical statements. Check it out, its a good read. I responded to all your points on the contrary. It's you who forgot how to read. Well good day, and I hope your 12 years of starcraft has given you great insight into life. | ||
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BlueIris
Korea (South)107 Posts
Koreans and foreigners lol | ||
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