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DISCLAIMER: I hope it's at least readable, didn't have the time to really arrange the text in a comprehendable manner. 
I really like the idea of Stimpack being a Medic's spell. How about it being AoE (small radius) as well?
As for reintroducing Medics and getting rid of Medivac while still making Reapers more useful, as intended by Blizzard: How about introducing a new upgrade for Medics? A global upgrade to Spotters - Medics with jetpacks and Drop Pod abilities.
Generally how I see Medics in SC2:
- Heal (not available when the to-be-healed units are under attack) making them work together with Marines well against Mutas, Roaches, or Speedlings. early-mid game.
- Stimpack (AoE, small radius, works for all infantry units, except for Reapers (?)) making them more mobile, and thus useful in Baneling/Swarm/Desease encounters
- Optic Flare (upgrade) - small radius AoE spell which makes ranged (and melee?) units nuable to attack for a short period of time - could make Medics viable vs. Protoss early on, OK vs. Terran (agressive Flare pushes instead of more defensive metal), and, obviously, more interesting in TvZ (e.g. vs. Hydras in midgame)
- Spotter global upgrade - gives Medics jetpacks, making them viable support units for Reapers (Blizzard's main concern) as well as interesting army harassment units coupled with Flare; gives Medics a Drop Pod spotting ability - useful for making M&M a viable reinforcement tool due to non-existent travel time, good harassment/defensive tool (Dropship harass into a fullscale attack; couple Medics in expansions + Drop Pod buildings close to Barracks)
So, to sum up, the mechanics/dynamics this changes introduce/retain are:
I. TvZ:
- M&M combo throughout the game
- interesting decisions as regards Stimpack/Heal/Optic Flare use vs. different Zerg combos
- Reaper/Spotter (jetpacked Medic) combo for harassment
- in-battle reinforcements for the core army/harassment groups via Drop Pods (this way not only do Drop Pods not overlap with Reapers, but they also supplement them in a good way)
- defensive capabilities of Drop Pods
II. TvP:
- M&M more viable early on (until Colossi/DTs/Storms kick in) due to Flare (vs. Stalker/Immortal opening)
- Flare probably useful as support for metal (vs. Immortals e.g.)/vs. air units (to but some time to build adequate counters)/vs. Stalker/Colossus harassment
- Drop Pods as a reinforcement tool
III. TvT:
- Flare & Stim probably viable as an agressive opening vs. somewhat passive metal
- Flare probably useful as vs. Vkining on-Tank drops as a means of buying some time for the Tanks to unsiege
- Drop Pod as a reinforcement tool
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Why does everyone always assume Lurkers are tier3?
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By tier 3 they mean that Den has been moved to Lair tech. Is that not so? Was Karune wrong?
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Hydras are tier 2 now so I think people are speculating that Lurkers will be tier3
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Sweden33723 Posts
On June 10 2008 12:54 yangstuh wrote:
FA, lets put it this way as well... could you really have predicted each units "excitement" level prerelease of Starcraft1? Likewise how could you really say the same for SC2? While its clear the the reaver was a cool unit, the assumption is that units that we've seen or yet to have seen won't be as cool.. with such limited playtime if not none at all, and definitly none at the professional level.
Well, I think it's clear that the reaver -> colossus is gonna be less exciting simply looking at the properties of the units In the same way I think it's pretty logical to assume the stalker is gonna be more exciting (perhaps dynamic is the better word) than the dragoon.
The medivac and, especially, the jackal are a bit harder to say, those are more "potential worries" or whatever you want to call them. The jackal might be totally fine, the medivac.. I dunno.
On June 10 2008 18:27 maybenexttime wrote:DISCLAIMER: I hope it's at least readable, didn't have the time to really arrange the text in a comprehendable manner. I really like the idea of Stimpack being a Medic's spell. How about it being AoE (small radius) as well? As for reintroducing Medics and getting rid of Medivac while still making Reapers more useful, as intended by Blizzard: How about introducing a new upgrade for Medics? A global upgrade to Spotters - Medics with jetpacks and Drop Pod abilities.
I really liked when blizzard announced medics could use a war3-style (mortar team) flare to spot up cliffs and shit, I think this and the jetpack upgrade is pretty interesting.
Generally how I see Medics in SC2:
- Heal (not available when the to-be-healed units are under attack) making them work together with Marines well against Mutas, Roaches, or Speedlings. early-mid game.
HMmmmmmmm, I dunno about not being able to heal while under attack.. I really dunno. Like, if marines weren't such fragile 40 hp units it could work, since you could run them back, but they die really really really fast when not healed.
- Stimpack (AoE, small radius, works for all infantry units, except for Reapers (?)) making them more mobile, and thus useful in Baneling/Swarm/Desease encounters
Sounds potentially good :0 Or it could work like bloodlust in WC3 (ie autocast, then you choose between autocast stimpack or autocast heal).
- Optic Flare (upgrade) - small radius AoE spell which makes ranged (and melee?) units nuable to attack for a short period of time - could make Medics viable vs. Protoss early on, OK vs. Terran (agressive Flare pushes instead of more defensive metal), and, obviously, more interesting in TvZ (e.g. vs. Hydras in midgame)
Hmmm, I think AoE blind would be cooler, but this isn't bad I guess 
- Spotter global upgrade - gives Medics jetpacks, making them viable support units for Reapers (Blizzard's main concern) as well as interesting army harassment units coupled with Flare; gives Medics a Drop Pod spotting ability - useful for making M&M a viable reinforcement tool due to non-existent travel time, good harassment/defensive tool (Dropship harass into a fullscale attack; couple Medics in expansions + Drop Pod buildings close to Barracks)
Hm, I'm not sure I get this part. You want to give the ghosts drop pod ability to the medic? Blizzard has currently taken it out of multiplayer, but I guess their reasoning (the ghost was stacked with abilities) might not apply to the medic :O Might be good!
Also would like to see the WC3-flare return to the medics, using them to spot up cliffs for reapers would be good.
So, to sum up, the mechanics/dynamics this changes introduce/retain are:
I. TvZ:
- M&M combo throughout the game
- interesting decisions as regards Stimpack/Heal/Optic Flare use vs. different Zerg combos
- Reaper/Spotter (jetpacked Medic) combo for harassment
- in-battle reinforcements for the core army/harassment groups via Drop Pods (this way not only do Drop Pods not overlap with Reapers, but they also supplement them in a good way)
- defensive capabilities of Drop Pods
II. TvP:
- M&M more viable early on (until Colossi/DTs/Storms kick in) due to Flare (vs. Stalker/Immortal opening)
- Flare probably useful as support for metal (vs. Immortals e.g.)/vs. air units (to but some time to build adequate counters)/vs. Stalker/Colossus harassment
- Drop Pods as a reinforcement tool
III. TvT:
- Flare & Stim probably viable as an agressive opening vs. somewhat passive metal
- Flare probably useful as vs. Vkining on-Tank drops as a means of buying some time for the Tanks to unsiege
- Drop Pod as a reinforcement tool
<3 Sounds awesome.
On June 10 2008 19:58 CowGoMoo wrote:
Why does everyone always assume Lurkers are tier3?
http://www.sc2blog.com/2008/03/16/starcraft-2-korean-and-chinese-build-summary/
"Lurkers are now tier 3"
Maybe since they showcased the zerg this has changed, but at the time, lurkers were tier 3 :C
Btw, thanks to everyone in this thread, it has been one of the most constructive threads I've seen so far in the SC2 section <3!
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I really liked when blizzard announced medics could use a war3-style (mortar team) flare to spot up cliffs and shit, I think this and the jetpack upgrade is pretty interesting.
I liked that idea too, but afaik Reapers do not need vision of the high ground anymore in order for them to jump there. I also think the range of Medic's ability was limited as opposed to the Mortar Team.
HMmmmmmmm, I dunno about not being able to heal while under attack.. I really dunno. Like, if marines weren't such fragile 40 hp units it could work, since you could run them back, but they die really really really fast when not healed.
I guess you're right. This might require a little too much micro. I was mainly trying to address Unentschieden's concerns.
Sounds potentially good :0 Or it could work like bloodlust in WC3 (ie autocast, then you choose between autocast stimpack or autocast heal).
The thing is Terran bionic units are much more expandable than Orc units. Casting Stim on specific units in mid/late game could become a chore.
Hmmm, I think AoE blind would be cooler, but this isn't bad I guess
I see your point. Although the main issue with Blind in SC1 was the fact that you had to blind the entirety on enemy units in order for it to work. I guess its being an AoE spell could be enough, though.
Hm, I'm not sure I get this part. You want to give the ghosts drop pod ability to the medic? Blizzard has currently taken it out of multiplayer, but I guess their reasoning (the ghost was stacked with abilities) might not apply to the medic :O Might be good!
Also would like to see the WC3-flare return to the medics, using them to spot up cliffs for reapers would be good.
Yes, that's what I meant. But they'd have to make sure Medic is not stacked with abilities either.
Many people have specutaled that the reason for their removing the Drop Pods was caused partly by the fact that Drop Pods kind of overlapped with Reapers as a harassment tool. Giving the Medics jetpacks & Drop Pods would help them keep up with Reapers and render them/Drop Pods as something that enhances Reapers' harassment capabilites instead of overlapping with them. That way you could bring couple Medics (Spotters) with your Reapers and call in the Drop Pods in case you decided you can actually take down that expansion altogether.
Aside from that, there would be different reason for mixing in some Medics in your army/harassment groups/expo defences, as mentioned before. 
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Sweden33723 Posts
The thing is Terran bionic units are much more expandable than Orc units. Casting Stim on specific units in mid/late game could become a chore.
Ye but it would be on autocast I dunno, might not be great, since the army will be moving at different speeds from unit to unit lol.
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And you'll end up Stimming Ghosts, Medics, etc.
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Quick post - I didn't read most of the thread, but let the colossus have a brief start-up or charging time during which it will not fire and remain locked on a point rather than on its target, i.e. it loses tracking for the first second before beginning to sweep automatically towards targeted enemies (with its lasers). Micro can now save peons by dancing them around the beam, as with running around lurker spikes. :< Also, give the colossi a speed upgrade, for more intensity. x3 Idk, that's all for now~
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On June 10 2008 05:30 inlagdsil wrote:
You guys may laugh at this idea, but what if marines could heal on their own? They would have energy or a timer like stalkers, and after you upgrade "self-heal", they could restore HP with the touch of a hotkey. This creates timing issues, like do you upgrade stim or heal first. It is also less powerful than medics, because you can no longer create a wall in front of your marines.
I really like this idea. It seems that Blizz wants to make marines actually damaged in battle and have to heal later on. Hovering medivacs over your main army will most likely lead to the opponent sniping them so long as they have some anti air. Just look at how easy it is to scourge vessels when the marines are preoccupied. I think a self-heal "shot" or something fills the role better than medivac and fits in perfectly with the marine.
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Well that is the concept. That way Marines are indirectly stronger against Anti-Ground while being vulnerable to Anti air.
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Why take what was good originally (stim on marine, medic heal) and make it into a clumsy system where medic stims...
I like flare on medic- what if it could reveal cloaked units in a very small area nearby (smaller than comsat)?
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On June 11 2008 06:39 naventus wrote:
Why take what was good originally (stim on marine, medic heal) and make it into a clumsy system where medic stims...
I like flare on medic- what if it could reveal cloaked units in a very small area nearby (smaller than comsat)?
I agree with you on stim part, but flare revealing cloaked units would make cloaked units worthless.
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On June 11 2008 02:15 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +The thing is Terran bionic units are much more expandable than Orc units. Casting Stim on specific units in mid/late game could become a chore. Ye but it would be on autocast I dunno, might not be great, since the army will be moving at different speeds from unit to unit lol.
Well auto cast in War3 usually has conditions. Bloodlust won't be cast until nearby friendly units engage the enemy. Slow for humans won't be cast unless an enemy attacks a nearby friendly unit, etc.
The thing I don't like about the idea of stim on medics is that they are already rather passive units, basically a moving buff for your marines that gives them health regen. Adding stim to that would only make them even more so, which makes for an incredibly bland unit.
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On June 11 2008 05:01 NatsuTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2008 05:30 inlagdsil wrote:
You guys may laugh at this idea, but what if marines could heal on their own? They would have energy or a timer like stalkers, and after you upgrade "self-heal", they could restore HP with the touch of a hotkey. This creates timing issues, like do you upgrade stim or heal first. It is also less powerful than medics, because you can no longer create a wall in front of your marines. I really like this idea. It seems that Blizz wants to make marines actually damaged in battle and have to heal later on. Hovering medivacs over your main army will most likely lead to the opponent sniping them so long as they have some anti air. Just look at how easy it is to scourge vessels when the marines are preoccupied. I think a self-heal "shot" or something fills the role better than medivac and fits in perfectly with the marine.
this is not a bad idea at all, i like it.
On June 11 2008 06:47 UmmTheHobo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2008 06:39 naventus wrote:
Why take what was good originally (stim on marine, medic heal) and make it into a clumsy system where medic stims...
I like flare on medic- what if it could reveal cloaked units in a very small area nearby (smaller than comsat)? I agree with you on stim part, but flare revealing cloaked units would make cloaked units worthless.
cloaked units are already worthless because of scan
besides which that would make flare overlap with comsat, no thx
ideas for the medic that i like:
- cliffjumping upgrade... however I was thinking, how could we make ghosts better combined with ghosts as well. So how about this: you have a choice ingame, pick one or the other. if you research one you can't go back and research the other. Cliffjumping medics, or cloakable medics. cloakable medics + ghost + optical flare could lead to some interesting things.
- a stim/heal toggle autocast (stim would damage the units over time instead of in jumps and stim would instantly stop once switched off). in team games, stim could be maybe castable on allied zealots and lings? medics won't all several cast stim on one target unless force-clicked to. multistimming only hurts more. in addition with focus-casting in cases of extreme emergency where you only have medics, maybe allow stim to be casted on enemy units to damage them?
- restoration should return but make it smartcast. this is like the only spell that would benefit from smartcast, because restoration was too much of a pain in the ass to deal with otherwise, it never got used because of that. this would also maybe help vs. tier 2 plague. maybe up the mana cost, but make the research cheaper.
- optic flare should do the following: reveal sight uphill, blind 1 unit that's directly hit, and other units in a small small radius (think sc1 EMP) around it have decreased sight range. blinding will be stronger in SC2 because units firing do not reveal themselves. also, make it properly work against detectors instead of this thing where sometimes if another unit gives sight but not detection you still get detection. The AOE should disable detection too, so if they stack their obs then they're fucked, they should spread their obs.
- give the medic or the medivac dmatrix pleaseeeeeeeeee i want dmatrix back so bad
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blinding will be stronger in SC2 because units firing do not reveal themselves.The AOE should disable detection too, so if they stack their obs then they're fucked, they should spread their obs.
Blind already does this. You can blind lurkers and then kill them with marines and the lurkers won't attack back.
also, make it properly work against detectors instead of this thing where sometimes if another unit gives sight but not detection you still get detection.
what are you talking about? a blind detector does not give detection regardless of another unit giving it vision of an area.
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OP is true, i hate games like Dawn of War where you get a real massive expensive thing but all it does is repeatedly shoot lasers. units like reaver, vulture and lurker is what made sc so great, they can turn the whole game around in a second, whether they succeed or fail. That is why we still play...
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On June 11 2008 20:38 caution.slip wrote:Show nested quote +blinding will be stronger in SC2 because units firing do not reveal themselves.The AOE should disable detection too, so if they stack their obs then they're fucked, they should spread their obs. Blind already does this. You can blind lurkers and then kill them with marines and the lurkers won't attack back. Show nested quote +
also, make it properly work against detectors instead of this thing where sometimes if another unit gives sight but not detection you still get detection.
what are you talking about? a blind detector does not give detection regardless of another unit giving it vision of an area.
wait, somebody's tried using optic flare in SC1 other than boxer? :o
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Sweden33723 Posts
Yup, Upmagic, the mini emperor
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Stegosaur
Netherlands1231 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/5277/reaversje8.jpg)
