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Hot dang, big grats to Clem for taking down Maru in a high stakes mirror. Credit to Solar too, definitely an upset but not as surprising.
Reynor put on a ZvT clinic in the finals, sheesh
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On August 09 2023 05:47 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2023 03:17 luxon wrote:
TL did no marketing around it unlike for Blizzcons. And all the other threads are questioning the source of the prize pool. The largest sports, companies, and industries in the world take Saudi money but somehow the poorest of beggars are the choosiest of what keeps the scene alive. Kinda disappointing. In my view, TL.net staff handled this well. Want to discuss the actual games in the tournament on TL.net? You can do that. Want to discuss the human rights violations of the Saudi regime whose Ministry of Sport is organizing the tournament on TL.net? You can do that too. TL.net staff acted smart by not taking a public position and by not getting entangled in the sportswashing issue by actively promoting this tournament either.
100 percent agreed. Team Liquid has been awesome about the controversial nature of this event. They got out in front of it, and handled it like pros.
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Northern Ireland24897 Posts
On August 09 2023 13:45 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2023 05:47 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On August 08 2023 03:17 luxon wrote:
TL did no marketing around it unlike for Blizzcons. And all the other threads are questioning the source of the prize pool. The largest sports, companies, and industries in the world take Saudi money but somehow the poorest of beggars are the choosiest of what keeps the scene alive. Kinda disappointing. In my view, TL.net staff handled this well. Want to discuss the actual games in the tournament on TL.net? You can do that. Want to discuss the human rights violations of the Saudi regime whose Ministry of Sport is organizing the tournament on TL.net? You can do that too. TL.net staff acted smart by not taking a public position and by not getting entangled in the sportswashing issue by actively promoting this tournament either. 100 percent agreed. Team Liquid has been awesome about the controversial nature of this event. They got out in front of it, and handled it like pros.
As they almost always do.
There were threads, and let’s be fair there’s less writers around to do previews in general theses days. Outside of Katowice TL doesn’t do a huge amount of hyping of tournaments, we’ll get a preview and some recaps of GSL/WCS/other internationals but nothing on the scale we used to get.
And I’ve no particular issue with that, outside of recruiting new writers etc who have a ton of time/addiction to TL (hello me) there’s just less bandwidth. Especially considering a big chunk of people still on here know the tournaments and keep an eye on them.
If publicly and numbers weren’t as they could be I’d be far more inclined to blame r/Starcraft then I would TL tbh. Or one of no doubt a million SC Discords
It’s the stop for a wider demographic, folks like Frost Giant eschew that platform in favour of something like TL, but maybe the conversion rate isn’t all that hot
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hours long stretches of super intense gaming have negative impacts on health. No matter what TL does they'll never have the "moral high ground". Of course, this is the same for anyone who has worked in a store that sells Coca-Cola or for a transportation company delivering it. So let's all be less than 100% morally pure together ... shall we? 
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United States1840 Posts
I really appreciate that tl took the effort to address issues with Gamers8 in the days/weeks leading up to the event.
And, yeah, coca cola is poison. Oh well.
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United States1840 Posts
On August 09 2023 22:23 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2023 13:45 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 09 2023 05:47 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On August 08 2023 03:17 luxon wrote:
TL did no marketing around it unlike for Blizzcons. And all the other threads are questioning the source of the prize pool. The largest sports, companies, and industries in the world take Saudi money but somehow the poorest of beggars are the choosiest of what keeps the scene alive. Kinda disappointing. In my view, TL.net staff handled this well. Want to discuss the actual games in the tournament on TL.net? You can do that. Want to discuss the human rights violations of the Saudi regime whose Ministry of Sport is organizing the tournament on TL.net? You can do that too. TL.net staff acted smart by not taking a public position and by not getting entangled in the sportswashing issue by actively promoting this tournament either. 100 percent agreed. Team Liquid has been awesome about the controversial nature of this event. They got out in front of it, and handled it like pros. As they almost always do. There were threads, and let’s be fair there’s less writers around to do previews in general theses days. Outside of Katowice TL doesn’t do a huge amount of hyping of tournaments, we’ll get a preview and some recaps of GSL/WCS/other internationals but nothing on the scale we used to get. And I’ve no particular issue with that, outside of recruiting new writers etc who have a ton of time/addiction to TL (hello me) there’s just less bandwidth. Especially considering a big chunk of people still on here know the tournaments and keep an eye on them. If publicly and numbers weren’t as they could be I’d be far more inclined to blame r/Starcraft then I would TL tbh. Or one of no doubt a million SC Discords It’s the stop for a wider demographic, folks like Frost Giant eschew that platform in favour of something like TL, but maybe the conversion rate isn’t all that hot
Not having more coverage of this was a conscious choice. It has nothing to do with the number of writers. If you think I couldn't have cranked out a preview in 30 minutes you're wrong. But I stand by the decisions made by those above me and I honestly believe they are in the right for coming to this determination.
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Northern Ireland24897 Posts
On August 10 2023 01:11 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2023 22:23 WombaT wrote:On August 09 2023 13:45 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 09 2023 05:47 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On August 08 2023 03:17 luxon wrote:
TL did no marketing around it unlike for Blizzcons. And all the other threads are questioning the source of the prize pool. The largest sports, companies, and industries in the world take Saudi money but somehow the poorest of beggars are the choosiest of what keeps the scene alive. Kinda disappointing. In my view, TL.net staff handled this well. Want to discuss the actual games in the tournament on TL.net? You can do that. Want to discuss the human rights violations of the Saudi regime whose Ministry of Sport is organizing the tournament on TL.net? You can do that too. TL.net staff acted smart by not taking a public position and by not getting entangled in the sportswashing issue by actively promoting this tournament either. 100 percent agreed. Team Liquid has been awesome about the controversial nature of this event. They got out in front of it, and handled it like pros. As they almost always do. There were threads, and let’s be fair there’s less writers around to do previews in general theses days. Outside of Katowice TL doesn’t do a huge amount of hyping of tournaments, we’ll get a preview and some recaps of GSL/WCS/other internationals but nothing on the scale we used to get. And I’ve no particular issue with that, outside of recruiting new writers etc who have a ton of time/addiction to TL (hello me) there’s just less bandwidth. Especially considering a big chunk of people still on here know the tournaments and keep an eye on them. If publicly and numbers weren’t as they could be I’d be far more inclined to blame r/Starcraft then I would TL tbh. Or one of no doubt a million SC Discords It’s the stop for a wider demographic, folks like Frost Giant eschew that platform in favour of something like TL, but maybe the conversion rate isn’t all that hot Not having more coverage of this was a conscious choice. It has nothing to do with the number of writers. If you think I couldn't have cranked out a preview in 30 minutes you're wrong. But I stand by the decisions made by those above me and I honestly believe they are in the right for coming to this determination.
Can’t disagree with that, wasn’t aware but cheers for the clarification.
Wasn’t saying you folks aren’t up to it believe me! Just there’s a bit less hyping of events compared to say, 5/6 years ago and I think some people are comparing the lack thereof to how other events were hyped in that period rather than now
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On August 10 2023 01:11 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2023 22:23 WombaT wrote:On August 09 2023 13:45 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 09 2023 05:47 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On August 08 2023 03:17 luxon wrote:
TL did no marketing around it unlike for Blizzcons. And all the other threads are questioning the source of the prize pool. The largest sports, companies, and industries in the world take Saudi money but somehow the poorest of beggars are the choosiest of what keeps the scene alive. Kinda disappointing. In my view, TL.net staff handled this well. Want to discuss the actual games in the tournament on TL.net? You can do that. Want to discuss the human rights violations of the Saudi regime whose Ministry of Sport is organizing the tournament on TL.net? You can do that too. TL.net staff acted smart by not taking a public position and by not getting entangled in the sportswashing issue by actively promoting this tournament either. 100 percent agreed. Team Liquid has been awesome about the controversial nature of this event. They got out in front of it, and handled it like pros. As they almost always do. There were threads, and let’s be fair there’s less writers around to do previews in general theses days. Outside of Katowice TL doesn’t do a huge amount of hyping of tournaments, we’ll get a preview and some recaps of GSL/WCS/other internationals but nothing on the scale we used to get. And I’ve no particular issue with that, outside of recruiting new writers etc who have a ton of time/addiction to TL (hello me) there’s just less bandwidth. Especially considering a big chunk of people still on here know the tournaments and keep an eye on them. If publicly and numbers weren’t as they could be I’d be far more inclined to blame r/Starcraft then I would TL tbh. Or one of no doubt a million SC Discords It’s the stop for a wider demographic, folks like Frost Giant eschew that platform in favour of something like TL, but maybe the conversion rate isn’t all that hot Not having more coverage of this was a conscious choice. It has nothing to do with the number of writers. If you think I couldn't have cranked out a preview in 30 minutes you're wrong. But I stand by the decisions made by those above me and I honestly believe they are in the right for coming to this determination.
I don't necessarily condemn the decision, but I think in times like this there's room for debates on the issue. What keeps the big SC2 tournaments going is ESL and whether we like it or not, ESL is highly dependent, even owned by Saudi Arabia. Should TL just stop covering all ESL events because of the ownership? Then SC2 loses even the last bit of coverage remaining.
I agree that it's horrible that a country like this pushes as hard into the scene and I think something has to happen to prevent them from taking over the entire scene. But with SC2 and its dependancy on ESL, I think that's already too late. And I'm not sure an event taking place in Saudi Arabia is a much bigger deal than the entire tournament scene being organized and financed by a company that's owned by Saudi Arabia.
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I don't see the problem with the current compromise. Take the money but don't give them any free publicity. If the Saudis are willing to eat the negative ROI to prop up the scene as some sort of vanity project, I don't see the moral hazard. They lose money and everyone else benefits--sounds like a win-win all around.
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Northern Ireland24897 Posts
On August 12 2023 05:15 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2023 01:11 Mizenhauer wrote:On August 09 2023 22:23 WombaT wrote:On August 09 2023 13:45 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 09 2023 05:47 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On August 08 2023 03:17 luxon wrote:
TL did no marketing around it unlike for Blizzcons. And all the other threads are questioning the source of the prize pool. The largest sports, companies, and industries in the world take Saudi money but somehow the poorest of beggars are the choosiest of what keeps the scene alive. Kinda disappointing. In my view, TL.net staff handled this well. Want to discuss the actual games in the tournament on TL.net? You can do that. Want to discuss the human rights violations of the Saudi regime whose Ministry of Sport is organizing the tournament on TL.net? You can do that too. TL.net staff acted smart by not taking a public position and by not getting entangled in the sportswashing issue by actively promoting this tournament either. 100 percent agreed. Team Liquid has been awesome about the controversial nature of this event. They got out in front of it, and handled it like pros. As they almost always do. There were threads, and let’s be fair there’s less writers around to do previews in general theses days. Outside of Katowice TL doesn’t do a huge amount of hyping of tournaments, we’ll get a preview and some recaps of GSL/WCS/other internationals but nothing on the scale we used to get. And I’ve no particular issue with that, outside of recruiting new writers etc who have a ton of time/addiction to TL (hello me) there’s just less bandwidth. Especially considering a big chunk of people still on here know the tournaments and keep an eye on them. If publicly and numbers weren’t as they could be I’d be far more inclined to blame r/Starcraft then I would TL tbh. Or one of no doubt a million SC Discords It’s the stop for a wider demographic, folks like Frost Giant eschew that platform in favour of something like TL, but maybe the conversion rate isn’t all that hot Not having more coverage of this was a conscious choice. It has nothing to do with the number of writers. If you think I couldn't have cranked out a preview in 30 minutes you're wrong. But I stand by the decisions made by those above me and I honestly believe they are in the right for coming to this determination. I don't necessarily condemn the decision, but I think in times like this there's room for debates on the issue. What keeps the big SC2 tournaments going is ESL and whether we like it or not, ESL is highly dependent, even owned by Saudi Arabia. Should TL just stop covering all ESL events because of the ownership? Then SC2 loses even the last bit of coverage remaining. I agree that it's horrible that a country like this pushes as hard into the scene and I think something has to happen to prevent them from taking over the entire scene. But with SC2 and its dependancy on ESL, I think that's already too late. And I'm not sure an event taking place in Saudi Arabia is a much bigger deal than the entire tournament scene being organized and financed by a company that's owned by Saudi Arabia.
One is a matter of reputation laundering, the other is making money.
ESL seems reasonably autonomous, to the degree it was actually news to me they got bought by the Saudi state.
On the flip side, the Gulf States do have to transition their economies. And if having to diversify necessitates some of the social change that makes us Westerners feel uncomfortable, well that’s a win-win I guess.
At present I’m just not seeing a huge amount of evidence that you’re getting much of the latter.
In a way Scarlett not qualifying was a pity on 3 fronts. For her and her career, for her many fans but also as what would have been an interesting litmus test.
The counter argument tends to be shrouded in rhetoric about past grievances, or Western imperialism and imposition of values elsewhere on the globe.
Personally I think it’s a stupid argument because we’re talking about various cherished institutions in the West, or a more global sense (like the World Cup) getting bought out. The Saudis can run their own league as they see fit, but if I’m a Newcastle fan they’re buying a social institution with over a century of tradition that’s a community hub and I can’t do shit about it.
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EPT
